worst secret project - Alpha Centauri Forums

  Alpha Centauri Forums
  Strategies and Tactics
  worst secret project

profile | register | prefs | faq | search

Author Topic:   worst secret project

Krushala posted 06-08-99 04:27 PM ET
We all know the best secret project. Which is the worst or the one you never bother to build. Except self aware colony. We know there is a bug with that one. Mine is pholus mutagen. The only reason I ever build this is if I'm can't build anything else or just to keep it out of deirdre's hand's if she has a powerful faction already.
All the other ones have some good point which benefits me except for this one. I just don't see the ecology bonus.
Oleg Leschoff posted 06-09-99 12:38 AM ET
The worst SP is definitely Bulk Matter Transmitter, although it is also useful, because, unlike Nessus Mining Stations, it's permanents, unless that base get PBusted.
I also don't like Space Elevator. It doesn't do anything with production after patch3, and I when I get it my research rate skyrockets, and I am getting that tech that allows orbital insertions pretty fast. BTW, I never built those expiring Wonders in Civ2 -- except Leonardo's workshop.
As about SAC -- it seems I missed something, what's the problem with it?
Pholus Mutagen is a very useful thing, especially on maps with medium and abundant lifeforms -- it's a good tactic to keep your units in fungus. It's a must if you also have Xenoephaty Dome. Also, it decreases ecodamage.
laurens posted 06-09-99 02:25 AM ET
The Planetary Datalinks and Bulk Matter come in close, but I think I will still vote for the Datalinks
Series II posted 06-09-99 08:24 AM ET
What is the problem with Self Aware Colony?
Worst SP depends on planet makeup. With 30-50% oceans Martime Guild is useless. I al playing one of these now and the re is just 1 landmass. This one porbably gets my vote over all.
Citizen Defense Force is really useless if you are the Hive.
Rackam posted 06-09-99 09:40 AM ET
"Citizen Defense Force is really useless if you are the Hive."
Not really Series, it means the all others have to build their perimeter defence.
~Rackam
M_ashwell posted 06-09-99 09:59 AM ET
the worst is the "voice of planet"
if u build it then 9 times out of 10 the AI's declare war on u!!!
Series II posted 06-09-99 10:13 AM ET
Rackam,
Yea, the AI getting Citizen Defense Force is sometimes a pain, but if that happens I usually wait until later in the game to attack that faction. Even if I get into a war with the I can play defensive (and let them throw their units against my HIVE parimiter defense) until i get weapons that make their permiter defense look like paper.
It is not to hard to get 10 or 13 value weaopns when the AI is still using 3 or 4 value armor. In general it seems a lot easeir to get the weapons than the armor.
laurens posted 06-09-99 10:37 AM ET
My thoughts:
Series II, ever since I switched my play to blind research, the neutronium armor tends to find me faster than the shard.
And it happens quite often.
Natguy posted 06-09-99 11:29 AM ET
The Ascent to Transcendence. (just checking to make sure you're awake!)
My real vote is for the Planetary Datalinks. If you're so far behind in research that at least three factions have technology you don't, you're probably not playing too well that game.
Although I build it to keep it away from, the others)
Krushala posted 06-09-99 04:13 PM ET
I believe this bug still exists in patch 3.0 in that self aware colony doesn't reduce the maintenance of the entire empire just the city it was built in. Has anybody has heard anything new. I just build it because I'm far enough ahead at that point to build all of the secret projects.
Series II posted 06-09-99 04:25 PM ET
I believe that Krushala is right. I have built SAC and noticed that my facility support did not decrease much. It only effecting 1 city would probably account for this.
VictorK posted 06-13-99 03:04 AM ET
Self-Aware Colony DOES halve the maintenance cost of all your cities. The effect is just not shown on the F3 report screen.
I agree that on Transcend, Self-Aware Colony is quite useless, since your maintenance cost is already reduced by 67% on Trancend anyway.
TheMadStork posted 06-13-99 04:56 AM ET
Assiming that the original question includes the caveat, IF THE SP'S WORKED AS ADVERTISED, then the easy loser is the Bulk Matter Transmitter. It should have provided every base with a Psi Gate. That's what is shows in the movie. And perhaps the +2 minerals per base as well.
All other SP's have decent effects depending on style of play: on abundant lifeforms planets, the Xenoempathy Dome and Pholus Mutagen are a fantastic combo; for the anti-Free Market economists, the Longevity Vaccine helps with drones and the Self-Aware Colony adds an extra police unit to each base.
And if an enemy faction (they all are) gets any secret project, its apparent value increases immediately!
I go now.
Koshko posted 06-13-99 09:14 PM ET
Delayed response to Oleg,
Space Elevator Does work with v3. In fact it works better. Before when you built the Orbitals, your EcoDamage skyrockets. Now, you get the Bonus w/o any more EcoDamage. Look at your Mineral Production number. It will be Double. Also the 100% energy bonus still works.
M_ashwell posted 06-14-99 05:52 AM ET
i aggree with stork psy gates shuold be added to the bulk transporter but that doesnt make it useless you get +2 min for every base...
when u get all the mineral mods this goes up also any NEW bases get the +2 min it makes it quicker to build the defencive unit for that base
Oleg Leschoff posted 06-14-99 08:16 AM ET
Koshko:
Are you feel really better because of that doubled number? The production doesn't changes. Check that yourself. However, energy thing is good.
Provost Harrison posted 06-14-99 12:24 PM ET
In v3, SE doesn't double production AT ALL. Bulk Matter Transmitter is pretty useless at that stage. Usually with Cloning Vats and a good number of Nessus Mining Stations, it's effects pale very quickly. But, still, with my style of play, I have never had one scrap of use from the Planetary Datalinks. It must just look one of my bases look pretty or something (but that also applied in Civ/Civ2 with the Great Library for me).
Also, the Living Refinery has very little impact on me at that stage. Usually at that stage I will have a -2 support. It puts it up to 0 support. So what? 10 minerals at start +1 mineral per turn? Oh, great!
icosahedron posted 06-14-99 04:03 PM ET
Bulk matter transmitter is the least useful.
Planetary datalinks can be useful even for UoP. When you pursue higher level techs you will sometimes not get some lower ones that everyone else has. I don't usually go for Planetary Datalinks unless I have nothing better to do, but when this has occurred, I do usually see some benefit, even as UoP, because I tend to go for higher level techs.
- icosahedron
VictorK posted 06-14-99 05:11 PM ET
Have you guys been paying attention to what actually happens in the game? Bulk Matter Transmitter does not give just +2 minerals.
It gives +50% minerals. If you build it, both your mineral production and ecodamage will skyrocket. So it shouldn't be useless unless you're concerned with ecodamage.
LocustOfChiron posted 06-14-99 10:07 PM ET
Does anyone really care about the Planetary Transit System? I usualy end up with 2 of the 3 extra people starving anyway. And the one less drone? Any base at size 3 or lower has serious problems anyway if its later than 2250.
icosahedron posted 06-15-99 11:29 AM ET
Planetary transit system is quite useful. New bases become instantly more durable and with greater output, so more quickly can build a defender. Thus I use it when invading to build a "drop bridge" of bases in a chain that are just close enough to drop units between (prior to orbital insertion, of course).
Let's say you want to attack someone who is distance 32 from your nearest base, way prior to gaining orbital insertion tech or sp. Pretty tough and time consuming, generally. But with drop colony pods that are supercharged by planetary transit system, you can reliably deliver a massive force into your target's territory in just 4 turns, and you will have the infrastructure on site to support them.
Even for a close enemy, drop colony pods plus drop troops are great for circumventing enemy lines of force, just drop a pod behind enemy lines and a bunch of drop troops the same turn, and go for it.
Now, planetary transit system is not needed to make this tactic work, but it does help a lot -- gives you that warm fuzzy feeling of a 3-pop base versus the precarious feel of a 1-pop base (even if you lose the 3-pop base, you can retake it immediately and it will still exist, whereas a 1-pop base will just go poof, stranding your troops with no base support behind enemy lines.)
-icosahedron
Resource Consumer posted 06-15-99 11:38 AM ET
I tend to build it a lot. The reason is that I usually have quite a small number of bases and by midgame find myself getting outvoted in the Council. I tend to use it to crete lots of size 3 seabases and then make a push for Governor.
That said - it isn't usually my first choice.
Earwicker posted 06-15-99 03:53 PM ET
The PTS is one I don't mind missing so much. The point it becomes available is when I'm focusing on my infrastructure, SP's or possibly a war effort: taking a early-to-midgame break from expansion.
If another faction builds it, fine. I just aim my sights at them and grab that base later. If they manage to build a few bases in the interim, no problem. Those bases might actually survive the onslaught instead of being attacked at size one and disappearing, better enabling my hopscotch.
LBEST1 posted 06-15-99 04:11 PM ET
My vote is for the Universal Translator. By the time it comes around, I get new techs every 2 turns anyway. Quite often when I build it, I just get Transcendent Thoughts.
The UT should be available earlier in the game to be of any use.
Zozo posted 06-15-99 05:21 PM ET
It has to be either PDL or UT for me.
PTS is quite useful for UoP together with Virtual World. Instant size 3 + instant network node + instant hologram would give a productive city immediately. If I also have Command Nexus + Cyborg Factory + Power then I get an elite scout the next turn which can then be upgraded to the best defender if necessary.
To close this thread, click here (moderator or admin only).


Hop to:

Contact Us | Alpha Centauri Home

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.18
© Madrona Park, Inc., 1998.

Author	Topic: worst secret project
Krushala	posted 06-08-99 04:27 PM ET We all know the best secret project. Which is the worst or the one you never bother to build. Except self aware colony. We know there is a bug with that one. Mine is pholus mutagen. The only reason I ever build this is if I'm can't build anything else or just to keep it out of deirdre's hand's if she has a powerful faction already. All the other ones have some good point which benefits me except for this one. I just don't see the ecology bonus.
Oleg Leschoff	posted 06-09-99 12:38 AM ET The worst SP is definitely Bulk Matter Transmitter, although it is also useful, because, unlike Nessus Mining Stations, it's permanents, unless that base get PBusted. I also don't like Space Elevator. It doesn't do anything with production after patch3, and I when I get it my research rate skyrockets, and I am getting that tech that allows orbital insertions pretty fast. BTW, I never built those expiring Wonders in Civ2 -- except Leonardo's workshop. As about SAC -- it seems I missed something, what's the problem with it? Pholus Mutagen is a very useful thing, especially on maps with medium and abundant lifeforms -- it's a good tactic to keep your units in fungus. It's a must if you also have Xenoephaty Dome. Also, it decreases ecodamage.
laurens	posted 06-09-99 02:25 AM ET The Planetary Datalinks and Bulk Matter come in close, but I think I will still vote for the Datalinks
Series II	posted 06-09-99 08:24 AM ET What is the problem with Self Aware Colony? Worst SP depends on planet makeup. With 30-50% oceans Martime Guild is useless. I al playing one of these now and the re is just 1 landmass. This one porbably gets my vote over all. Citizen Defense Force is really useless if you are the Hive.
Rackam	posted 06-09-99 09:40 AM ET "Citizen Defense Force is really useless if you are the Hive." Not really Series, it means the all others have to build their perimeter defence. ~Rackam
M_ashwell	posted 06-09-99 09:59 AM ET the worst is the "voice of planet" if u build it then 9 times out of 10 the AI's declare war on u!!!
Series II	posted 06-09-99 10:13 AM ET Rackam, Yea, the AI getting Citizen Defense Force is sometimes a pain, but if that happens I usually wait until later in the game to attack that faction. Even if I get into a war with the I can play defensive (and let them throw their units against my HIVE parimiter defense) until i get weapons that make their permiter defense look like paper. It is not to hard to get 10 or 13 value weaopns when the AI is still using 3 or 4 value armor. In general it seems a lot easeir to get the weapons than the armor.
laurens	posted 06-09-99 10:37 AM ET My thoughts: Series II, ever since I switched my play to blind research, the neutronium armor tends to find me faster than the shard. And it happens quite often.
Natguy	posted 06-09-99 11:29 AM ET The Ascent to Transcendence. (just checking to make sure you're awake!) My real vote is for the Planetary Datalinks. If you're so far behind in research that at least three factions have technology you don't, you're probably not playing too well that game. Although I build it to keep it away from, the others)
Krushala	posted 06-09-99 04:13 PM ET I believe this bug still exists in patch 3.0 in that self aware colony doesn't reduce the maintenance of the entire empire just the city it was built in. Has anybody has heard anything new. I just build it because I'm far enough ahead at that point to build all of the secret projects.
Series II	posted 06-09-99 04:25 PM ET I believe that Krushala is right. I have built SAC and noticed that my facility support did not decrease much. It only effecting 1 city would probably account for this.
VictorK	posted 06-13-99 03:04 AM ET Self-Aware Colony DOES halve the maintenance cost of all your cities. The effect is just not shown on the F3 report screen. I agree that on Transcend, Self-Aware Colony is quite useless, since your maintenance cost is already reduced by 67% on Trancend anyway.
TheMadStork	posted 06-13-99 04:56 AM ET Assiming that the original question includes the caveat, IF THE SP'S WORKED AS ADVERTISED, then the easy loser is the Bulk Matter Transmitter. It should have provided every base with a Psi Gate. That's what is shows in the movie. And perhaps the +2 minerals per base as well. All other SP's have decent effects depending on style of play: on abundant lifeforms planets, the Xenoempathy Dome and Pholus Mutagen are a fantastic combo; for the anti-Free Market economists, the Longevity Vaccine helps with drones and the Self-Aware Colony adds an extra police unit to each base. And if an enemy faction (they all are) gets any secret project, its apparent value increases immediately! I go now.
Koshko	posted 06-13-99 09:14 PM ET Delayed response to Oleg, Space Elevator Does work with v3. In fact it works better. Before when you built the Orbitals, your EcoDamage skyrockets. Now, you get the Bonus w/o any more EcoDamage. Look at your Mineral Production number. It will be Double. Also the 100% energy bonus still works.
M_ashwell	posted 06-14-99 05:52 AM ET i aggree with stork psy gates shuold be added to the bulk transporter but that doesnt make it useless you get +2 min for every base... when u get all the mineral mods this goes up also any NEW bases get the +2 min it makes it quicker to build the defencive unit for that base
Oleg Leschoff	posted 06-14-99 08:16 AM ET Koshko: Are you feel really better because of that doubled number? The production doesn't changes. Check that yourself. However, energy thing is good.
Provost Harrison	posted 06-14-99 12:24 PM ET In v3, SE doesn't double production AT ALL. Bulk Matter Transmitter is pretty useless at that stage. Usually with Cloning Vats and a good number of Nessus Mining Stations, it's effects pale very quickly. But, still, with my style of play, I have never had one scrap of use from the Planetary Datalinks. It must just look one of my bases look pretty or something (but that also applied in Civ/Civ2 with the Great Library for me). Also, the Living Refinery has very little impact on me at that stage. Usually at that stage I will have a -2 support. It puts it up to 0 support. So what? 10 minerals at start +1 mineral per turn? Oh, great!
icosahedron	posted 06-14-99 04:03 PM ET Bulk matter transmitter is the least useful. Planetary datalinks can be useful even for UoP. When you pursue higher level techs you will sometimes not get some lower ones that everyone else has. I don't usually go for Planetary Datalinks unless I have nothing better to do, but when this has occurred, I do usually see some benefit, even as UoP, because I tend to go for higher level techs. - icosahedron
VictorK	posted 06-14-99 05:11 PM ET Have you guys been paying attention to what actually happens in the game? Bulk Matter Transmitter does not give just +2 minerals. It gives +50% minerals. If you build it, both your mineral production and ecodamage will skyrocket. So it shouldn't be useless unless you're concerned with ecodamage.
LocustOfChiron	posted 06-14-99 10:07 PM ET Does anyone really care about the Planetary Transit System? I usualy end up with 2 of the 3 extra people starving anyway. And the one less drone? Any base at size 3 or lower has serious problems anyway if its later than 2250.
icosahedron	posted 06-15-99 11:29 AM ET Planetary transit system is quite useful. New bases become instantly more durable and with greater output, so more quickly can build a defender. Thus I use it when invading to build a "drop bridge" of bases in a chain that are just close enough to drop units between (prior to orbital insertion, of course). Let's say you want to attack someone who is distance 32 from your nearest base, way prior to gaining orbital insertion tech or sp. Pretty tough and time consuming, generally. But with drop colony pods that are supercharged by planetary transit system, you can reliably deliver a massive force into your target's territory in just 4 turns, and you will have the infrastructure on site to support them. Even for a close enemy, drop colony pods plus drop troops are great for circumventing enemy lines of force, just drop a pod behind enemy lines and a bunch of drop troops the same turn, and go for it. Now, planetary transit system is not needed to make this tactic work, but it does help a lot -- gives you that warm fuzzy feeling of a 3-pop base versus the precarious feel of a 1-pop base (even if you lose the 3-pop base, you can retake it immediately and it will still exist, whereas a 1-pop base will just go poof, stranding your troops with no base support behind enemy lines.) -icosahedron
Resource Consumer	posted 06-15-99 11:38 AM ET I tend to build it a lot. The reason is that I usually have quite a small number of bases and by midgame find myself getting outvoted in the Council. I tend to use it to crete lots of size 3 seabases and then make a push for Governor. That said - it isn't usually my first choice.
Earwicker	posted 06-15-99 03:53 PM ET The PTS is one I don't mind missing so much. The point it becomes available is when I'm focusing on my infrastructure, SP's or possibly a war effort: taking a early-to-midgame break from expansion. If another faction builds it, fine. I just aim my sights at them and grab that base later. If they manage to build a few bases in the interim, no problem. Those bases might actually survive the onslaught instead of being attacked at size one and disappearing, better enabling my hopscotch.
LBEST1	posted 06-15-99 04:11 PM ET My vote is for the Universal Translator. By the time it comes around, I get new techs every 2 turns anyway. Quite often when I build it, I just get Transcendent Thoughts. The UT should be available earlier in the game to be of any use.
Zozo	posted 06-15-99 05:21 PM ET It has to be either PDL or UT for me. PTS is quite useful for UoP together with Virtual World. Instant size 3 + instant network node + instant hologram would give a productive city immediately. If I also have Command Nexus + Cyborg Factory + Power then I get an elite scout the next turn which can then be upgraded to the best defender if necessary.