On hurrying production - Alpha Centauri Forums

  Alpha Centauri Forums
  Strategies and Tactics
  On hurrying production

profile | register | prefs | faq | search

Author Topic:   On hurrying production

sandals posted 05-19-99 12:56 PM ET
I have seen comments to the effect of 'You should not pay full price for hurrying production because you could pay less & get it the next turn anyway.'
I disagree - sometimes I will hurry production even if I would get the item next turn anyway!
Why? Because the excess minerals go to the next item in the build queue. And so in effect, you are speeding production on the next item, but paying less per mineral to do so, because the last couple minerals (25%)cost 2 energy, but the first few cost 4 energy.

sandworm posted 05-19-99 03:19 PM ET
Only 10 of the extra minerals go to the next project, I think. I'm pretty sure there's -some- sort of limit.
sandworm posted 05-19-99 03:19 PM ET
Could I be more vague?
Gixxer posted 05-19-99 05:23 PM ET
I think you are confusing hurring with changing. If you hurry a unit, every single mineral produced by that base (except support) will go to the next production. Right?
Mergle posted 05-20-99 04:01 AM ET
Gixxer - wrong. Only 10 carry over. The others do seem to be converted into energy however. At least, that's the only way I can explain the way my energy goes up by 200 when I'm on -196 a turn according to my energy screen.
eborg posted 05-20-99 09:17 AM ET
That is an interesting question in itself - why does one tend to get more energy than the energy calculation says ?
I keep on wondering where this energy comes from. I noticed that there is something like a double energy addition:
first, I get my turns normal energy when my turn starts.
Second, after I checked all my bases that finished producing some building, I have even more energy!
So it could well be that the energy comes from excess minerals.
Does anyone really understand the phenomenon ?
saruman posted 05-21-99 12:37 AM ET
I don't know about converting minerals to energy, but switching production is explained. According to the manual, 10 minerals from the current production carry over to the new production, as do half of the remaining minerals. Additionally, if there are enough minerals to pay for the new production, up to 10 minerals will carry over to the next production and that's the limit of the phenomenon. Switching from SP to SP is a special case and all minerals carry over.
Tin Man posted 05-21-99 05:59 AM ET
I can't say I've noticed excess production being turned into minerals, but then my energy reserver does sometimes seem to have become much larger than I expect.
One possible explanation is the 'Stockpile Energy' production option. - If a city builds a base facility, and there are no other items in the queue, then the production defaults to 'Stockpile Energy' - this might explain the conversion of production to Energy.
This does seem a little thin, but I would go some way towards explaining it!?
Tamber posted 05-21-99 10:16 AM ET
If you hurry a production fully, and you are producing more than 10 minerals/turn at a base, you are spending too much money to finish that production.
Here's the rule of thumb:
a) For any base producing 10 or less minerals per turn, spend the complete 'hurry' payment.
b) for any base producing more than 10 minerals, take that number minus 10, and call it 'x'.
c) take the amount of money required to 'fully' hurry the production, and call it 'y'.
d) Do a partial payment of (y minus (x times 2)), and you will hurry the production, 10 minerals will carry over to the next production, and nothing has been wasted.
Incindentally, only in extreme emergencies should you hurry base facilities that have not yet accumulated 10 minerals without hurrying. The hurry cost is subject to some multiplier unless it has reached a certain threshold on its own. This threshold seems to be about 10 minerals for most base facilities. For building units, this threshold appears to be much higher. Does anyone know the formula?
Porkmonger posted 05-21-99 10:46 PM ET
Hurry production is highly useful, if you're generating excess energy. Since many bases produce really slowly (especially if you have low support), you can build faster by rushing production. Also it's good if you need like one mineral more than is being produced to complete a unit. Basically it gives you a slight building edge if you're good with it (especially in the beginning and with Morgan, since you can speed up dramatically)
Of course this keeps your energy reserves down, so buying secret projects is difficult.
The formula is based around what percent of the thing has already been built. If you've been building for a couple of turns, it generally costs 2x the number of remaining minerals (minus what you'll build next turn, of course). Note that the cost is NOT reduced if you have a higher industry rating - a row always costs 20 even if it's only 8 squares wide.
The costs are different, however, if you just assigned production this turn, or are on higher difficulty (and maybe costs have something to do with social engineering).
The rule of thumb is to look at the reccommended cost, and subtract from it 2x the number of minerals you produce each turn. This is the most accurate method I know of.
Plato90s posted 05-22-99 01:08 AM ET
All true, but who has the energy to calculate those things except at the very beginning of the game, when energy credits are scarce. By the time I get into the 24th century, I'm managing too many cities to care about saving 30-40 credits here and there.
Tamber posted 05-24-99 10:02 AM ET
Porkmonger:
I have not seen that energy costs go up with higher difficulties. I play exclusively on Transcend, and the 2x rule still applies in most cases (beginning production and unit production appear to be the major exceptions).
Plato90s:
Yes, the micromanagement can be tedious, but I've noticed I can add/subtract much more quickly than I have even since college
Each base only takes about 5 seconds to do this processing for. Granted, with 80 cities, that's almost 7 minutes of time, but when you're playing on Transcend, every advantage is helpful in winning.
I make a priority of hurrying items 2 turns away from production. When I use the strategy I listed above, this can reduce the number of times I waste minerals due to over-production. For example, a base that's producing 37 minerals and is one mineral away from completing the facility this turn will waste 26 minerals if left alone. However, spend 2 energy to finish it this turn, and you waste nothing. Spend 22 energy, and you not only waste nothing, you start the next item with 10 minerals already provided!
Since you need about 10 minerals to hurry most base facilities without paying double (or worse) the normal 2x cost, this is the way I usually hurry things.
(Playing a Transcend game now as University... bringing in 1300 energy per turn and researching every 2 turns! This game is great!)
-T
eNo posted 05-24-99 11:52 AM ET
I pay just enough so that the order can be complete in the next turn on the city's own production. Saves a lot of money this way.
Amount_to_pay = full_hurry_cost - (full_hurry_cost / turns_remaining)
hope that made sense.
Urban Ranger posted 05-25-99 02:42 AM ET
It seems that the hurrying cost is a function of how many more minerals is required instead of how many turns left. However, it is quite obvious that if the item has less than 10 minerals accumulated, the hurrying cost is vastly more expensive. Units seem to be more expensive than base facilities to hurry.
It is silly to pay a lot of hurrying cost, with these following exception:
1. A unit is required to repel an invasion
2. An enemy faction is about to beat you in completing a SP, esp when there are no other
SPs left for you to build.
eborg - no, you don't get your full energy production at the beginning of your turn. The game goes through your bases, one by one, computing the energy surplus for each base, if a drone riot occurs, etc.
To close this thread, click here (moderator or admin only).


Hop to:

Contact Us | Alpha Centauri Home

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.18
© Madrona Park, Inc., 1998.

Author	Topic: On hurrying production
sandals	posted 05-19-99 12:56 PM ET I have seen comments to the effect of 'You should not pay full price for hurrying production because you could pay less & get it the next turn anyway.' I disagree - sometimes I will hurry production even if I would get the item next turn anyway! Why? Because the excess minerals go to the next item in the build queue. And so in effect, you are speeding production on the next item, but paying less per mineral to do so, because the last couple minerals (25%)cost 2 energy, but the first few cost 4 energy.
sandworm	posted 05-19-99 03:19 PM ET Only 10 of the extra minerals go to the next project, I think. I'm pretty sure there's -some- sort of limit.
sandworm	posted 05-19-99 03:19 PM ET Could I be more vague?
Gixxer	posted 05-19-99 05:23 PM ET I think you are confusing hurring with changing. If you hurry a unit, every single mineral produced by that base (except support) will go to the next production. Right?
Mergle	posted 05-20-99 04:01 AM ET Gixxer - wrong. Only 10 carry over. The others do seem to be converted into energy however. At least, that's the only way I can explain the way my energy goes up by 200 when I'm on -196 a turn according to my energy screen.
eborg	posted 05-20-99 09:17 AM ET That is an interesting question in itself - why does one tend to get more energy than the energy calculation says ? I keep on wondering where this energy comes from. I noticed that there is something like a double energy addition: first, I get my turns normal energy when my turn starts. Second, after I checked all my bases that finished producing some building, I have even more energy! So it could well be that the energy comes from excess minerals. Does anyone really understand the phenomenon ?
saruman	posted 05-21-99 12:37 AM ET I don't know about converting minerals to energy, but switching production is explained. According to the manual, 10 minerals from the current production carry over to the new production, as do half of the remaining minerals. Additionally, if there are enough minerals to pay for the new production, up to 10 minerals will carry over to the next production and that's the limit of the phenomenon. Switching from SP to SP is a special case and all minerals carry over.
Tin Man	posted 05-21-99 05:59 AM ET I can't say I've noticed excess production being turned into minerals, but then my energy reserver does sometimes seem to have become much larger than I expect. One possible explanation is the 'Stockpile Energy' production option. - If a city builds a base facility, and there are no other items in the queue, then the production defaults to 'Stockpile Energy' - this might explain the conversion of production to Energy. This does seem a little thin, but I would go some way towards explaining it!?
Tamber	posted 05-21-99 10:16 AM ET If you hurry a production fully, and you are producing more than 10 minerals/turn at a base, you are spending too much money to finish that production. Here's the rule of thumb: a) For any base producing 10 or less minerals per turn, spend the complete 'hurry' payment. b) for any base producing more than 10 minerals, take that number minus 10, and call it 'x'. c) take the amount of money required to 'fully' hurry the production, and call it 'y'. d) Do a partial payment of (y minus (x times 2)), and you will hurry the production, 10 minerals will carry over to the next production, and nothing has been wasted. Incindentally, only in extreme emergencies should you hurry base facilities that have not yet accumulated 10 minerals without hurrying. The hurry cost is subject to some multiplier unless it has reached a certain threshold on its own. This threshold seems to be about 10 minerals for most base facilities. For building units, this threshold appears to be much higher. Does anyone know the formula?
Porkmonger	posted 05-21-99 10:46 PM ET Hurry production is highly useful, if you're generating excess energy. Since many bases produce really slowly (especially if you have low support), you can build faster by rushing production. Also it's good if you need like one mineral more than is being produced to complete a unit. Basically it gives you a slight building edge if you're good with it (especially in the beginning and with Morgan, since you can speed up dramatically) Of course this keeps your energy reserves down, so buying secret projects is difficult. The formula is based around what percent of the thing has already been built. If you've been building for a couple of turns, it generally costs 2x the number of remaining minerals (minus what you'll build next turn, of course). Note that the cost is NOT reduced if you have a higher industry rating - a row always costs 20 even if it's only 8 squares wide. The costs are different, however, if you just assigned production this turn, or are on higher difficulty (and maybe costs have something to do with social engineering). The rule of thumb is to look at the reccommended cost, and subtract from it 2x the number of minerals you produce each turn. This is the most accurate method I know of.
Plato90s	posted 05-22-99 01:08 AM ET All true, but who has the energy to calculate those things except at the very beginning of the game, when energy credits are scarce. By the time I get into the 24th century, I'm managing too many cities to care about saving 30-40 credits here and there.
Tamber	posted 05-24-99 10:02 AM ET Porkmonger: I have not seen that energy costs go up with higher difficulties. I play exclusively on Transcend, and the 2x rule still applies in most cases (beginning production and unit production appear to be the major exceptions). Plato90s: Yes, the micromanagement can be tedious, but I've noticed I can add/subtract much more quickly than I have even since college Each base only takes about 5 seconds to do this processing for. Granted, with 80 cities, that's almost 7 minutes of time, but when you're playing on Transcend, every advantage is helpful in winning. I make a priority of hurrying items 2 turns away from production. When I use the strategy I listed above, this can reduce the number of times I waste minerals due to over-production. For example, a base that's producing 37 minerals and is one mineral away from completing the facility this turn will waste 26 minerals if left alone. However, spend 2 energy to finish it this turn, and you waste nothing. Spend 22 energy, and you not only waste nothing, you start the next item with 10 minerals already provided! Since you need about 10 minerals to hurry most base facilities without paying double (or worse) the normal 2x cost, this is the way I usually hurry things. (Playing a Transcend game now as University... bringing in 1300 energy per turn and researching every 2 turns! This game is great!) -T
eNo	posted 05-24-99 11:52 AM ET I pay just enough so that the order can be complete in the next turn on the city's own production. Saves a lot of money this way. Amount_to_pay = full_hurry_cost - (full_hurry_cost / turns_remaining) hope that made sense.
Urban Ranger	posted 05-25-99 02:42 AM ET It seems that the hurrying cost is a function of how many more minerals is required instead of how many turns left. However, it is quite obvious that if the item has less than 10 minerals accumulated, the hurrying cost is vastly more expensive. Units seem to be more expensive than base facilities to hurry. It is silly to pay a lot of hurrying cost, with these following exception: 1. A unit is required to repel an invasion 2. An enemy faction is about to beat you in completing a SP, esp when there are no other SPs left for you to build. eborg - no, you don't get your full energy production at the beginning of your turn. The game goes through your bases, one by one, computing the energy surplus for each base, if a drone riot occurs, etc.