posted 05-10-99 08:21 AM ET        

After a couple of SMAC games, playing various
factions (well ok University, Gaians & Peacekeepers), I think I seem to have a strategy that works for the hippy peacenik
factions (up to THINKER level anyway)

1) Pray for a good landing site, Monoliths discoveries are essential.
2) Solid Research Route to Air Power with
SuperString theory, Needlejets with Chaos Cannons. I go for...

a) BIOGENETICS=>SOCIAL PSYCH=>SECRET OF THE HUMAN BRAIN (for a go at the freebie tech).
b) ETHICAL CALCULAS & GREEN EMPATHY, then
switch to a GREEN DEMOCRATIC government. You
can then crank Labs up to 80%.
c) Then go through the techs to get CYBERETHICS (for the KNOWLEDGE gov).
d) Then AIRPOWER & SUPERSTRING.
e) Then Build Air Units like mad & a couple
of Rovers.
f) Now you should be able to zap the Believers and the Hive. Take over their cities. This has the effect of cranking your
faction right up there in terms of power ratings.

Also make sure early on you crawl and suck
up to anyone that threatens you (Believers
& the Hive). Just give into their demands
until your ready. But whatever happens don't
give either AIRPOWER!.

This strategy seems to work and on completion
your faction just seems to cruise ahead of the computer ones. With your vast empire, you
can crank out the new techs, special projects, etc and the rest have got no chance.

Well? Any thoughts?

posted 05-10-99 08:53 AM ET         

While it may work on your vanilla settings, other people's are different. I play with Blind Research, so trying to do this would be difficult because I could fumble around trying to get the right techs. And I also play with very slow tech settings, so that fumbling around could 40 or 50 years.

Furthermore, who says you'll be able to absorb the Believers and Hive? Most people (atleast the ones I know) play on Huge or Huger maps. If you're next to the both Believers and Hive you're in trouble. Giving to their demands does not mean they aren't going to try to stomp you anyway. And if they aren't there, than, well, you'll just be all dressed up and have nowhere to go.

Plus, your empire ain't all that vast. I myself hate Green economics with avengance (die Planet! Mwahahaha!) even when I'm playing a peaceful fac. Ever try Demo/Planned? Much better combo. All you have to do is build a Children's Creche and your cities will go into pop boom. Who needs tech? Your cities will be in the 10s and 12s when theirs are in the 4s and 5s. And most of the time doing FME (Free Market) will get you so much energy that you will research faster than if you used the Green/Knowledge combo.

Or, you can try Fundamentalist, Planned, Wealth. Then turn off research and pump into Psych. You instnatly become a faction that grows and builds well, will have lots and lots of golden ages so for the most part you'll be making plenty of cash. And you'll be geared up for war.

And who says you need to give them Airpower? If I were in such a predicament with you I'd just steal it and build my own Hive Chaos Needlejets. With your knowledge settings you're wide open for it with -2 Probe.

posted 05-10-99 10:01 AM ET         

Ruud, You should really try playing with blind tech. It makes the game much better and stops the boring old CIV tactic of using the same tactic everytime and relying on getting certain techs first.

posted 05-10-99 10:09 AM ET            

Ok, during my last SMAC game (I being UoP at THINKER level) the proposed strategy worked.

I landed and got a GREAT! landing site, 2 monoliths and a mineral square (+7 Min!).

This allowed me to crank out Colony Pods to build about 5 cities before I met the other factions.

On my right I met Mr Lal, Hurrah! so after a quick hug, techs were exchanged and a trade pact signed.

On my left, my worse nightmare, Miriam makes an appearance...grovel, whimper, please don't kill me..have 50 credits.

Then it gets worse, I meet the HIVE, see above with even more suck up grovelling.

Then this situation countinued for what seemed ages, with my UoP giving in to any of
the 2 leftie factions demands, until my stragety is realised. I had managed to build
the Genome & Virtual World SPs during this time.

First BAM!, the HIVE decides to teach me a
lesson on my unwillingess to give them Airpower...they lose 2 cities 8-)

While I'm engaged against the HIVE, Miriam decides to get into the action and also demands I hand over AirPower. Another war begins.

But luckily, the HIVE decide to make friends and support my attacks against Miriam. Cool!

After a fair amount of elasped time, with the war against the Believer still in the balance (she had a lot of units), I finally take a Believer City!.

Thus starts the rapid bliztkreig (well a needlejet equivalent) thru Miriam's remaining empire. I capture about 10 land cities (with 2 SP gains Command Centre & Weather Paradigm ?) & 7 sea bases. Miriam now
has 2 remaining cities on Deirde's Green continent. 8-)

I see the HIVE has spent the time moving a large amount of speeders and infantry into
my territory. I ask him to leave, he declares vendetta on me. I win another 4 HIVE
cities and capture the Chairmen.

I now have about 30 cities. 8-)

I then relax and make friends with the remaining factions and start building.

From this game, neither the Believers or Hive sent any Probe teams at me, aslong as I
remained prostate before them.

posted 05-10-99 10:22 AM ET            

But doesn't this give the attack orientated factions (Hive, Belivers & Spartans) a big advantage?

I mean the only way the other sort-of-peacey types can hope to hold off the war trio is thru superior firepower.

I go DEMO-GREEN beacause of the efficency bonuses & the capture of Mind Worms.

posted 05-10-99 07:26 PM ET         

Actually, there's another SE choice out there. You know, FME? Efficency, Schemfficency, I'll take cold, hard cash anyday of the week

Also, Planned is quite nice to stay in, even for long periods of time. The industry bonus is nothing to scoff at (especially if paired with Wealth or with Hive... or with both.)
And with such a bonus one can assemble big armies fast, it makes a great "gearing up for war" SE choice.

Ruud:

"I mean the only way the other sort-of-peacey types can hope to hold off the war trio is thru superior firepower."

Nah-uhn. I've kicked booty as Fundamentalist Lal. Like Santiago said, "Superior Training." Screw weaponry. Good tactics can win the day.

And superior firepower my wazoo. The peacy-factions have the LEAST firepower in the game. Riddle me this,

Elite Believing Impact X Infantry.
vs.
Disciplined UoP Probablity Infantry (behind Perimeter wihh base)

Impact: 4
50% (Nerve Gas)
50% (Elite)
25% (Infantry vs. Base)
25% (Belief)

What happens? The vastly inferior (technologically speaking, of course) Believing unit winds up with 12 attack power. Equal to that of the UoP unit behind the perimeter with far more advanced technology on its side.

So what the peacy-facs have to do is just stay the hell away from warmongers

posted 05-10-99 11:59 PM ET         

Using non-Blind research and normal tech speed is vanilla? Well aren't we all high and mighty? As Ruud pointed out, all these do are favor different factions; Hive, Spartans, Gaians, Believers all benefit from this, especially the first and the last. Believers especially work well on these settings; they are tech screwed anyway, so they lose the least. With probes they will be able to make up for slow speed of research, and their infantry are obviously the best in the abscence of good military tech. Gaians have an advantage in mindworms and starting out with the best first level tech. And the Hive is clearly superior in such games.

If the game bores you so much, play UoP on Transcend with Blind Research, Slow Tech, small map, aggressive foes. Or make up your own custom crap faction with no bonuses at all. I happen to enjoy the game as is.

posted 05-11-99 09:00 AM ET            

I'm currently playing a game (this time as the PKs, random huge map, blind research, thinker).

This world is mostly water, with gazillions of islands everywhere. My faction is sort of situated where the Philliphines (?) are in relation to Earth.

So far its been tough, the blind research is
really getting me down, it took me *ages* to get Green Gov tech. Deirde won't trade it to me and then started a war cause I was causing
fungus explosions everywhere (Planned).

On the other hand, the game is a little more gripping than my other ones, my faction is level pegging with 5 others and Deirdre is way way ahead in the lead. She seems to be building all the SPs as I can't get the tech fast enough. Still the others are leaving me alone and fighting between themselves.

Current situation is

I have Genome, WeatherP & 50% PSI Defense SPs. I have about 10 cities on 6 small islands. 2 news ones on an island with the Borehole Cluster.

I'm allied with UoP & have a sort of treaty with Santiago...she gives me nothing and I pay her 20 credits for the priviledge. 8-).

The UoP, Spartans & Morganites seems to be fighting everyone. The Believers & Gaians
are allied ? Its a right old mess but the
action is way way away from me.

I've just put up the first orbital facility and got a total map of the planet. Now my
plans are to go scouting for pods (free techs) & build my Luffwaffe.

posted 05-11-99 09:40 AM ET         

Well you said to each his own, so I believe perhaps you should silence yourself.

You couldn't be more wrong in your assumption of how my games go. With slow tech, the peace faction's advantages in the said area really shine. It's terribly hard with Believers. Why? Becasue, you're forgetting, it can take 150+ years just to be able to GET probe teams. By which time the peacy facts are lightyears ahead of 'em.

So actually TRY playing my style before you speak, because under my terms the AI actually has a good time, it challanges me and the Hive and Believers oftentimes get squashed. Occasionally when I'm at the head of 'em too

And about Green, I don't like it because its greatest bonus, a planet boost, is of little concern to me. Until the late, late stages of the game the most planet will ever do is destroy an occasional farm and throw three or four worms at you. Until the point where Planet is eating me alive, I prefer to cash in with Free Market or gather military oompf with Planned.

Urban -

True, true, but Pods are alot quicker to snag than, say, Probability Mechanics. And the demonstration was nothing more than a demonstration to show that inferior tech units under the command of a the warmonger factions can usually outmuscle their opponents.

Ruud -

See what a difference Blind Research can make to your little strategy?

posted 05-11-99 07:50 PM ET         

Men...

To each their own, as in "I'll say what I want, you can say what you want." Freedom of speech, freedom to call punks like you see them... you know, expressive freedom.
Telling people who disagree with you to shut up (oops, I mean "silence yourself") is a pretty good argumentative strategy, but I believe in my points enough that I'm not worried about them falling down if someone questions them.

My main objection to your previous post was your bad attitude, which hasn't improved noticeably. I suppose wargames tend to attract macho hotheads, but needing to put other people down because they play the game at an easier level than you do is not really a sign of maturity. Maybe that's not your goal.

Nor my arguments are not really disproved that much by your "straw dummy" elimination of one of my points. Believers are PUMPED on tech screw if they start out near anybody... either trade or just conquer with inherent bonuses. The whole point of Believers is that research is hard work, and they get other people to do it for them, one way or the other... Supprt allows huge lo-tech armies, and attack bonus makes them more potent. Gaians can terraform from day one, massively increasing their research and production abilities, and can also recruit mindworms as added muscle. Spartans morale bonus is worth something when both tech morale upgrades and decent combat tech are far away. And Yang goes through the roof with an immediate SE choice and free permeter defense (tough to beat w/no decent tech), not to mention all the good stuff he always has. The previous faction ordering system is changed a lot, but you just get different groups on the top. If that makes one of your favored factions better, bully for you. But tech screw doesn't make the game universally harder.

posted 05-11-99 08:16 PM ET         

PS: Ruud, on Transcend I usually find that Yang is the best. The rest of 'em just can't compete on those settings. Test it out, you'll be ready to rock once you build the Command Nexus, and get X Impact Rovers or and infantry at elite status (w/monoliths and Fundimentalism)

I see you're trying for a development based game, but unless you got balls, you won't survive Transcend.

PS: Hive works great in development games, too.

posted 05-11-99 08:22 PM ET         

Ghost, I assume you're female(why, I just can't explain it)

And Al, why the hell do you have that fu*ker's name in your UserName?? Don't get me started, but I hope you don't like that piece of **** traitor. Anyway, this belongs in the NONSMAC area. And I really don't like that subject, anyway. Sorry I brought it up, but I do want to know what it means.

And since we're in a gaming forum, I'll treat you like a fellow gamer.

posted 05-11-99 09:13 PM ET         

I'm sorry but I don't know what exactly you're talking about.

"While it may work on your vanilla settings" is not a put down or an insult in my book, and if you're so sensitive that you feel that way, well just relax already, darnnit I'm not out here to bully anybody. I'm only 5'4" for cryin' out loud, I don't think I COULD bully anybody if I wanted to.

If you mean my previous post. That is also not an insult, and if you think it is, see above. I suppose somtimes I come across that way, but I guess it's because my "Sensitivity Meter" is at about zero.

So let me reiterate on this one:

May not work on your vanilla settings translated out of Al Gore Rythm-ish:
"How about trying some different settings?"

See what a difference Blind Research can make to your little strategy? Translated out of Al Gore Rythm-ish:
"Makes a difference, huh?"

Priest:

It's a play on the word "Algorithm."

I myself don't like Al Gore either, he's slow as molasses.

posted 05-11-99 11:04 PM ET         

High Priest --
What makes you think I'm female? The way I began my last post with "Men..." and used the term "macho hothead"? I suppose there could be some gender clues in those terms.

Is it a suprise? Girls like good computer games too, and SMAC is better than most.

Anyway--
I've probably babbled enough about this on other posts, but I can't stress enough the need to tailor troops for a particular opponent. Yang and Zak are good targets for probes... the latter is obvious, the former's perimeter can be totally bypassed if he isn't ready on the defense with probes of his own. No single enemy city can be defended well against every form of attack, and so hit it with whatever they aren't ready for... artillery, psi, air power, planet buster, probe. Once you have specialized their defenses you can crush them with regular troops.

A possible future for this way off-track thread:

SE debates

There have been a few exchanges about SE choices, specifically demo/planned and demo green. I have been using Believers a lot lately, and I find my main choices to be either Demo-Planned-Wealth or Demo-FME-Wealth in peacetime or Fundamentalist-Green-Power in War.... Demo-Green seems to be effic overkill when creches are available. Demo-Planned-
Wealth-Golden Age-Creche provides pretty good energy production and full tilt pop production (and I like to get the pop boom as much as is possible... when not in war I try to expand as much as I can, usually having only pressure tanks, creches, super forests, and hospitals at all bases, and as often as possible thereafter pumping out all colony pods). It takes a little getting used to but you can still maintain a presence in the field with probes, and armouring your non-combat troops lets them stand up better to mindworms. Demo-FME-Wealth-GA-Creche hauls in the cash hand over fist, which is useful for stocking up those few turns before battle. And Fun-Green-Pow gives +3 morale, +3 probe (making your probe teams high morale indeed), +4 support, + 1 planet, +2 effic, for a modest industry cut and a growth cut (research is also a mess, but you should probably pump your energy into psych/energy on these settings). It is a great set of total war options, especially if you happen to get the best SP out there, Clone Vats. The energy storing bias of this system has strong synergy with its probe bonuses.

posted 05-12-99 04:16 AM ET            

First off, I personally didn't take Al's remarks as insults. I asked for comments on my postulated strategy he gave me his. 8-)

Secondly, I personally don't mind what people say on forums, its only a game after all.

With that out of the way back to the game. 8-)

I played another 5 hours yesterday with my PK game. When last we left it I was poised to start building Air Units and do some serious scouting using Isles of the Deep (IotD).

Things that happenened.

The bigger winner here was the scouting strategy especially using IofD. There were loads of pods scattered around the map and the number of Alien Artifacts found pumped by
tech rating pass the other factions, including Deirdre! Plus the vast amounts of
cash raised *and* the 5 or 6 more IotD captured or zapped for more cash. The +50%
PSI defense seemed to make my IotD invunerable to planet IotD.

With the tech surge, I started getting first
dibs on new SPs and this allowed me to crank
out The Cloning Vats, The Theory of Everything, Universal Translator (which was
good because I was running out of cities to
plug Alien Artifacts into) & a few other I can't remember.

On the Luffwaffe front, with all the SP building and upgrading of units I haven't really made any conceded effort to smash the
other factions. I sold a few cities off the
Hive, which the chairman promptly Probed back. Another small decisive water war with
Deirdre with my fleet of Demon Boil IotD took
another 5 and forced Ms Skye to finally offer
a truce.

I think the game is heading for an Ascent to
Transendence win. Deirdre has already tried
to win twice now with the "unite behind me"
option.

So it's looking good. More Tonight.

Incidently whats a good defense against missiles? (No cheap shots Al, like 'kill the
factions whose bombing you'. 8-)

I want to lay back and go for a Ascent win.

posted 05-12-99 04:48 AM ET            

I happen to find Green to be a great SE setting. The +2 in efficiency is enormously helpful. Less waste = more energy. It also delays drone riots further so I may not have to build any rec commons (I generally can nab the Virtual World SP).

posted 05-12-99 10:16 AM ET            

Al Gore Rhythm = algorithm

posted 05-16-99 10:55 AM ET         

To make the game more challanging, of course.

posted 05-19-99 01:23 PM ET         

Sometimes, you get Particle Impacter early and go on a rampage.

Sometimes, you just can't get Genejack factory and your mineral production sucks.

Sometimes, you can't get cruisers, and you're puddling around with foils even at year 2345.

posted 05-21-99 11:42 PM ET         

One reason why you don't get cruisers is that Initiative isn't the prerequisite for any other tech until level 8, and those are both explore techs...