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Author Topic:   PKs Talents on Transcend Level

Smeagol posted 05-08-99 08:39 PM ET
Has anyone else noticed that when the PKs are played on transcend level, their extra talent/4 citizens becomes an extra talent/8 citizens? I just realized this... are there any other penalties given to factions on transcend? I know of course that the computer controlled factions get advantages, but I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed an actual reduction of their abilities.
JT 3 posted 05-08-99 09:05 PM ET
That's not true! Something's wrong with you're counting!
Smeagol posted 05-08-99 09:30 PM ET
Actually, I'm pretty good at counting.
Seriously, I did a test on it-- just use the cheat mode on transcend, and you'll see it too. I had a size 17 base, and so had 3 talents (one for the first citizen, 1 at 9, and 1 at 17). I then switched the difficulty to Librarian (with the cheat mode), and I then had more talents (I believe it was 5-- one for first pop, 1 at 5, 9, 13 and 17).
Empath posted 05-09-99 01:23 AM ET
Hmm... I have not paid attention to this, but I may have an answer from my Civ2 days...
Is it possible that your extra Normal->Talent conversion was taken up & used as a Drone->Normal conversion instead? Thus, instead of seeing 2 Normal->Talent, are you seeing 1 Drone->Normal->Talent or 1 Drone->Normal & 1 Normal-Talent?
Smeagol posted 05-09-99 01:35 AM ET
I'm pretty sure that's not it. I've never seen a talent become a worker when it replaces a drone-- whenever I boost psych way up, after all the workers become talents so do the drones. Maybe it's a game balancing issue, but it's odd that it isn't mentioned anywhere.
David Johnson posted 05-09-99 01:48 PM ET
I would guess that it *is* it. Certainly I've had a look at what happens to the University and in a sense the converse happens.
Because of bureaucracy my cities usually are all drones even before the University effect, so I was wondering if I was getting something for nothing - can't have more than all drones?
Seems that you can to some extent. Psych bonuses begin by removing a bunch of "virtual drones" before you can notice any difference. After that the drones are made into workers, and the workers become talents, at the usual rate of 2 psych/civilian change.
But facilities that eliminate drones rather than add talents seem to by-pass this. perhaps virtual anti-talents is more accurate than virtual-drones. This makes 2 drones less worth more than 2 specialists more.
A talent bonus from a secret project seems to behave oddly. Human Genome will give make a worker a talent only if there are more workers than drones as the result so far. [And it will be unless the city is in riot anyway] If there are more drones the Genome goes towards paying off the virtual anti-talents and has no visible effect at all.
The net result is that it's pretty pointless trying to use psych to prevent drone riots with the university [you can create non-psych specialists and they'll do as much good - which is to say they will remove one drone *themselves*.]
Smeagol posted 05-09-99 06:08 PM ET
Yep, you guys are right. The bonus talents turn workers into talents and drones into workers.
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Author	Topic: PKs Talents on Transcend Level
Smeagol	posted 05-08-99 08:39 PM ET Has anyone else noticed that when the PKs are played on transcend level, their extra talent/4 citizens becomes an extra talent/8 citizens? I just realized this... are there any other penalties given to factions on transcend? I know of course that the computer controlled factions get advantages, but I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed an actual reduction of their abilities.
JT 3	posted 05-08-99 09:05 PM ET That's not true! Something's wrong with you're counting!
Smeagol	posted 05-08-99 09:30 PM ET Actually, I'm pretty good at counting. Seriously, I did a test on it-- just use the cheat mode on transcend, and you'll see it too. I had a size 17 base, and so had 3 talents (one for the first citizen, 1 at 9, and 1 at 17). I then switched the difficulty to Librarian (with the cheat mode), and I then had more talents (I believe it was 5-- one for first pop, 1 at 5, 9, 13 and 17).
Empath	posted 05-09-99 01:23 AM ET Hmm... I have not paid attention to this, but I may have an answer from my Civ2 days... Is it possible that your extra Normal->Talent conversion was taken up & used as a Drone->Normal conversion instead? Thus, instead of seeing 2 Normal->Talent, are you seeing 1 Drone->Normal->Talent or 1 Drone->Normal & 1 Normal-Talent?
Smeagol	posted 05-09-99 01:35 AM ET I'm pretty sure that's not it. I've never seen a talent become a worker when it replaces a drone-- whenever I boost psych way up, after all the workers become talents so do the drones. Maybe it's a game balancing issue, but it's odd that it isn't mentioned anywhere.
David Johnson	posted 05-09-99 01:48 PM ET I would guess that it is it. Certainly I've had a look at what happens to the University and in a sense the converse happens. Because of bureaucracy my cities usually are all drones even before the University effect, so I was wondering if I was getting something for nothing - can't have more than all drones? Seems that you can to some extent. Psych bonuses begin by removing a bunch of "virtual drones" before you can notice any difference. After that the drones are made into workers, and the workers become talents, at the usual rate of 2 psych/civilian change. But facilities that eliminate drones rather than add talents seem to by-pass this. perhaps virtual anti-talents is more accurate than virtual-drones. This makes 2 drones less worth more than 2 specialists more. A talent bonus from a secret project seems to behave oddly. Human Genome will give make a worker a talent only if there are more workers than drones as the result so far. [And it will be unless the city is in riot anyway] If there are more drones the Genome goes towards paying off the virtual anti-talents and has no visible effect at all. The net result is that it's pretty pointless trying to use psych to prevent drone riots with the university [you can create non-psych specialists and they'll do as much good - which is to say they will remove one drone themselves.]
Smeagol	posted 05-09-99 06:08 PM ET Yep, you guys are right. The bonus talents turn workers into talents and drones into workers.