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Author Topic:   PBs...what's the big deal?

Frank Moore posted 05-06-99 12:16 PM ET
I have never yet seen any faction use a PB at all, much less against me. I never build PBs is this why? I know the AI in Civ2 had something built in so that if you didn't have nukes, the AI would nuke you unprovoked, but if you built just one nuke it wouldn't. I'm wondering if something similar is going on. Has anyone else seen anything like this? From reading these forums, it seems like PB warfare is fairly prevalent, I wonder why I haven't seen it.
GaryD posted 05-06-99 01:21 PM ET
Lucky You !
Spartans hit a major city of mine a few games ago, and I had no PBs built as they aren't something I like to use. (I bring my own values into the game more often than not.)
Anyway that changed my mind on being Mr Nice Guy. No she was not allowed to serve me later in the game ! Bring on my favourite torturer !
Beta1 posted 05-06-99 01:29 PM ET
I agree with GaryD. If your playing at either of the two higher levels and theres another faction at a similar tech level you can bet they will have PBs or if not are building them. Yang tends to be the first to start throwing them around (althought I'm not unknown to nuke cities containing SPs myself). I find the computers tactics with PBs rather pointless as they seem to aim for the biggest city you have rather than the most densely populated/militarised areas.
Limiting yourself to no PBs is a handicap especially late game. One well placed singularity PB makes a _very_ large hole.
jimmytrick posted 05-06-99 01:47 PM ET
I am playing transcend with aggressive AI. (lots of options enabled to slow down research also)Lal is now govenor, he is pummeling me with PBs, and of course when I called for a Council Vote to repeal the Charter he vetos it. So I can't retaliate without losing two pact brothers (including one submission pact).
Is that cheesy or what. Also, I was the Gov until he nuked one of my large bases to reduce my votes, called an election and got elected by just a few votes. Geez..
Our dear Firaxis programmers must be laughing their arses off.
It is good to hear that other are having different experiences. This bodes well for the replay value of SMAC. Has anyone seen the AI use air power extensively? Not I.
Meanwhile I hear the sirens blaring, must be another round of fusion missiles from that bitch Miriam!
ApcJK posted 05-07-99 11:48 AM ET
Is it possible to destroy PBs with probe teams? I think i once saw an option "Destroy planet buster silos" or something alike.
sandworm posted 05-07-99 12:19 PM ET
APC
Now -that- would be very cool, but I've never heard of it.
Hoping for confirmation
sandworm
GaryD posted 05-07-99 02:11 PM ET
Hmm. Be easy enough to try. But selecting a particular target for your probe team does reduce the chance of success.
Tarot242 posted 05-07-99 03:19 PM ET
There is indeed an option to destroy enemy planet busters with a probe team. I don't know the chances of success or the cost or anything as I've never actually tried it, but I've seen the option come up several times when I was probing Yang in a particular game. I didn't bother to try it because I was about to bomb out the entire area anyway, I was just stealing some tech and money first.
Earwicker posted 05-07-99 03:46 PM ET
Having experienced the proclivity of the Thinker/ Transcend AI to PB (ouch), I do everything in my power to see that those weapons never fall into the hands of agressive factions like the Peacekeepers. A strategy I've employed to protect myself is never to allow their existence.
Aside from the obvious (like editing alpha.txt), here are some suggestions:
Probe Teams. Infiltrate those datalinks as early as possible to keep up-to-date on what the other folks are researching. During a vendetta with a faction, hit them with "Assassinate prominent researchers" to slow down tech advancement. I haven't tried to do that repeatedly (anyone know if it's possible to hit the same HQ more than once?), but at the very least it buys time to destroy the faction outright or leave them too broken to reach their discovery.
If by some horrible chance they do get Orbital Spaceflight, use the probes to sabotage production at bases trying to build PB's -- before they build their first (that extra 50% cost gives you more time to get reinforcement probes in to hit the other bases that take it up). and if you miss the PB, maybe you'll nail the skunkworks. It may cost you several Probe teams, but consider the alternatives. If your military's in place, heavy attack against cities producing PB's cause a production switch to defensive units.
The question remains: what about (currently) peaceful factions? That's where the guessing begins -- will they reamin peaceful (at least until your orbital defensesm are in place)? Is their production capability sufficient to pose much of a threat? My experience has been that the question is moot -- factions rarely stay at peace, so it winds up being a question not of if but of when we fight.
You'd never guess from the above, but I do prefer to play a builder-style game. I just can't stand to see wet craters where my home once stood. A man's gotta do what he's gotta do.
Vinny posted 05-09-99 02:34 PM ET
Well I only play on the medium levels but I usually build one or two fusion PBs as a deterent and the AI gives me some more respect.
Urban Ranger posted 05-11-99 08:28 AM ET
It is definitely very interesting to watch Lal building the first PB in the game. It's not Yang because he's getting smacked around by me and down to his last two sea bases.
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Author	Topic: PBs...what's the big deal?
Frank Moore	posted 05-06-99 12:16 PM ET I have never yet seen any faction use a PB at all, much less against me. I never build PBs is this why? I know the AI in Civ2 had something built in so that if you didn't have nukes, the AI would nuke you unprovoked, but if you built just one nuke it wouldn't. I'm wondering if something similar is going on. Has anyone else seen anything like this? From reading these forums, it seems like PB warfare is fairly prevalent, I wonder why I haven't seen it.
GaryD	posted 05-06-99 01:21 PM ET Lucky You ! Spartans hit a major city of mine a few games ago, and I had no PBs built as they aren't something I like to use. (I bring my own values into the game more often than not.) Anyway that changed my mind on being Mr Nice Guy. No she was not allowed to serve me later in the game ! Bring on my favourite torturer !
Beta1	posted 05-06-99 01:29 PM ET I agree with GaryD. If your playing at either of the two higher levels and theres another faction at a similar tech level you can bet they will have PBs or if not are building them. Yang tends to be the first to start throwing them around (althought I'm not unknown to nuke cities containing SPs myself). I find the computers tactics with PBs rather pointless as they seem to aim for the biggest city you have rather than the most densely populated/militarised areas. Limiting yourself to no PBs is a handicap especially late game. One well placed singularity PB makes a _very_ large hole.
jimmytrick	posted 05-06-99 01:47 PM ET I am playing transcend with aggressive AI. (lots of options enabled to slow down research also)Lal is now govenor, he is pummeling me with PBs, and of course when I called for a Council Vote to repeal the Charter he vetos it. So I can't retaliate without losing two pact brothers (including one submission pact). Is that cheesy or what. Also, I was the Gov until he nuked one of my large bases to reduce my votes, called an election and got elected by just a few votes. Geez.. Our dear Firaxis programmers must be laughing their arses off. It is good to hear that other are having different experiences. This bodes well for the replay value of SMAC. Has anyone seen the AI use air power extensively? Not I. Meanwhile I hear the sirens blaring, must be another round of fusion missiles from that bitch Miriam!
ApcJK	posted 05-07-99 11:48 AM ET Is it possible to destroy PBs with probe teams? I think i once saw an option "Destroy planet buster silos" or something alike.
sandworm	posted 05-07-99 12:19 PM ET APC Now -that- would be very cool, but I've never heard of it. Hoping for confirmation sandworm
GaryD	posted 05-07-99 02:11 PM ET Hmm. Be easy enough to try. But selecting a particular target for your probe team does reduce the chance of success.
Tarot242	posted 05-07-99 03:19 PM ET There is indeed an option to destroy enemy planet busters with a probe team. I don't know the chances of success or the cost or anything as I've never actually tried it, but I've seen the option come up several times when I was probing Yang in a particular game. I didn't bother to try it because I was about to bomb out the entire area anyway, I was just stealing some tech and money first.
Earwicker	posted 05-07-99 03:46 PM ET Having experienced the proclivity of the Thinker/ Transcend AI to PB (ouch), I do everything in my power to see that those weapons never fall into the hands of agressive factions like the Peacekeepers. A strategy I've employed to protect myself is never to allow their existence. Aside from the obvious (like editing alpha.txt), here are some suggestions: Probe Teams. Infiltrate those datalinks as early as possible to keep up-to-date on what the other folks are researching. During a vendetta with a faction, hit them with "Assassinate prominent researchers" to slow down tech advancement. I haven't tried to do that repeatedly (anyone know if it's possible to hit the same HQ more than once?), but at the very least it buys time to destroy the faction outright or leave them too broken to reach their discovery. If by some horrible chance they do get Orbital Spaceflight, use the probes to sabotage production at bases trying to build PB's -- before they build their first (that extra 50% cost gives you more time to get reinforcement probes in to hit the other bases that take it up). and if you miss the PB, maybe you'll nail the skunkworks. It may cost you several Probe teams, but consider the alternatives. If your military's in place, heavy attack against cities producing PB's cause a production switch to defensive units. The question remains: what about (currently) peaceful factions? That's where the guessing begins -- will they reamin peaceful (at least until your orbital defensesm are in place)? Is their production capability sufficient to pose much of a threat? My experience has been that the question is moot -- factions rarely stay at peace, so it winds up being a question not of if but of when we fight. You'd never guess from the above, but I do prefer to play a builder-style game. I just can't stand to see wet craters where my home once stood. A man's gotta do what he's gotta do.
Vinny	posted 05-09-99 02:34 PM ET Well I only play on the medium levels but I usually build one or two fusion PBs as a deterent and the AI gives me some more respect.
Urban Ranger	posted 05-11-99 08:28 AM ET It is definitely very interesting to watch Lal building the first PB in the game. It's not Yang because he's getting smacked around by me and down to his last two sea bases.