Evil will always Conquer, because good is dumb.

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Author Topic:   Evil will always Conquer, because good is dumb.

K posted 05-03-99 05:46 AM ET
Transcend difficulty/Spartan player:
OK, I've tried it. I get the WP, I don't go to war, I avoid the offensive social choices, I don't make Pacts or Treaties, and I concentrate on the infrastructure. I even bend over and hand out money and tech.
I'm Noble, but a loser who gets reamed by multiple enemies by 2270.
But when I let out my bad side, the killl and conquer K, I go all combat and probe and by 2270 I've forced four factions into Submisson(and they are crippled, at half my power each), and have devestated the rest to a point of almost total military and technological retardation. My infrastructure consists of Boreholes and Roads, and very few facilties that aren't granted by a SP. And I'm so very Wicked.
Are the Spartans just born bad, or is it me?
In conclusion: "How the hell does the Builder strategy work?"
Thanks in advance. Any help is appreciated.
sandworm posted 05-03-99 09:25 AM ET
Builder strategy works best with a faction more suited to it than the Spartans. My feeling is, if you're going to be Spartan, be bad. They have a good advantage in military strength and its easiest to use it if you ignore conquering others and try to work on infrastructure, you're handicapping yourself. It's still possible to win, just harder (sometimes more fun, too).
There's a lot of Builder/Conqueror information in the Transcend/Ironman threads in the Game forum (if they haven't been wiped).
Tarot242 posted 05-03-99 10:35 AM ET
Your problem is that you're trying a builder strategy with a conquering faction. Try using your builder strategy with the UoP, Morgan, Gaians, PK or something like that. The Hive, Spartans and Believers are pretty much right out.
Schoop posted 05-03-99 02:49 PM ET
slight disagreement with you, Tarot.
In my opinion, the Hive is an excellent builder faction. Their natural boost to Growth and Industry allows them to crank out base facilities quickly and build truly monster Cities. Use Planned with them, and you've got +3 growth, +3 Industry with NO downside. as for the -2 Econ, after the REALLY early game, once you can start terraforming, it's no big deal.
Natguy posted 05-03-99 06:23 PM ET
Yeah, my best infrastructure ever was as the Hive.
Smeagol posted 05-03-99 07:41 PM ET
I agree with Schoop. If I want to play a military faction then the hive is an excellent choice because they build so well. Since I'm concentrating on domination more than anything else, I won't use free market in these games anyway, so not being able to get the magic +2 economy isn't the biggest deal. Just make sure you have the power by the latter portion of midgame.
Krickett posted 05-04-99 05:04 PM ET
Beware use of build strategy w/ the Hive. Later on they suffer crippling inefficiency.
trippin daily posted 05-04-99 05:13 PM ET
ummm, Kricket, no the Hive doesn't suffer from crippling inefficiancy. They are immune to negative penalities under efficiancy as of v. 3.0.
Trippin Daily
-Anybody know where I can find the green version of trainspotting (i know, dumb ?? but who knows, i may get lucky)-
Smeagol posted 05-04-99 05:15 PM ET
trippin-- Yeah, but at 0 efficiency they still can't expand as much as many other factions and will suffer from some serious inefficiency penalties. Are you more drugged up than usual today?
trippin daily posted 05-04-99 05:23 PM ET
LMAO... well smeagol... I can neither confirm nor deny that drugs may be present in my system
Trippin Daily
-dammit smeagol, you got me.... shhhh-
JT 3 posted 05-04-99 09:48 PM ET
I can neither confirm or deny that trippin has drugs in his system. I can, however, offer you these pills that will make you feel happy. Remember, I am not endorsing or shunning this product. I cannot confirm or deny that I was ever here.
Dowdc posted 05-05-99 04:40 PM ET
The best builder (as Smeagol knows well) is the PK's. Try playing them, even though they're wussy.
Build energy banks and network nodes ASAP. Also get children's creches. Once you have enough farmed squares, go planned (already be democracy) to get magic +6 growth. Or you could just pump up luxuries to get Golden Ages. Boom for 10 turns. Now all of your cities are size 10-16.
Get clean reactor first thing. Make an obscene amount of clean formers. Terraform eveything.....
Then get tree farm/hybrid forest. Build these next. They're just like banks in Civ, but much better. They're the best base facilities in existence.
Build all these things as quick as possible. Tech is unimportant, except for the forementioned items. Put tax as high as it'll go and buy these buildings. Minerals do it too slow. Spend 1000's. Wonders are not really even important, except for Human Genome to get Golden Ages really easy.
During all of this, only produce as much military as it takes to defend your borders. Don't even build command centers unless under attack. Give tech away like candy to maintain peace. Get as many pacts as possible. Don't mess around with changing society to maintain peace, give tech/money instead.
Then you get an unstopable economy and the ga me is all but won. It's easy from there...
That's builder school 101 Dowd-style.
Dowdc posted 05-05-99 04:44 PM ET
Oh yeah, stay free market for the WHOLE game, except when you go planned for pop. boom. But that's only for 10 turns. The WHOLE game. I'm serious.
Well except for around turn 200-300 when you just want to kill everybody. Then try green/power combo.
K posted 05-07-99 05:13 AM ET
Hey Dowdc,
By the time I get the tech for Hybrid forests and clean reacors, I can have at least three factions as submissive Pact Brothers. My usual stategy is to wait on builing facilities unitil the 2+ limits on resources get lifted, and by then I've got so many formers ready and working anyway that I seem to have backed into a builder stategy. Usually to get into a really good war I make sure each base has about three Boreholes if I need it to produce units.
I think the ultimate stategy is to Explore, then Conquer, then Build, then Discover, in that order.
Explore to get Pods and recon.
Conquer to create submissive pack brothers, weaken rivals, and secure safe borders.
Build to take that leap in power now that your borders are safe for annoying attacks that force you to change production.
Discover to be so far ahead in tech that you blast them with hovertanks while they still play around with Non-orbotal drop pods.
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Author	Topic: Evil will always Conquer, because good is dumb.
K	posted 05-03-99 05:46 AM ET Transcend difficulty/Spartan player: OK, I've tried it. I get the WP, I don't go to war, I avoid the offensive social choices, I don't make Pacts or Treaties, and I concentrate on the infrastructure. I even bend over and hand out money and tech. I'm Noble, but a loser who gets reamed by multiple enemies by 2270. But when I let out my bad side, the killl and conquer K, I go all combat and probe and by 2270 I've forced four factions into Submisson(and they are crippled, at half my power each), and have devestated the rest to a point of almost total military and technological retardation. My infrastructure consists of Boreholes and Roads, and very few facilties that aren't granted by a SP. And I'm so very Wicked. Are the Spartans just born bad, or is it me? In conclusion: "How the hell does the Builder strategy work?" Thanks in advance. Any help is appreciated.
sandworm	posted 05-03-99 09:25 AM ET Builder strategy works best with a faction more suited to it than the Spartans. My feeling is, if you're going to be Spartan, be bad. They have a good advantage in military strength and its easiest to use it if you ignore conquering others and try to work on infrastructure, you're handicapping yourself. It's still possible to win, just harder (sometimes more fun, too). There's a lot of Builder/Conqueror information in the Transcend/Ironman threads in the Game forum (if they haven't been wiped).
Tarot242	posted 05-03-99 10:35 AM ET Your problem is that you're trying a builder strategy with a conquering faction. Try using your builder strategy with the UoP, Morgan, Gaians, PK or something like that. The Hive, Spartans and Believers are pretty much right out.
Schoop	posted 05-03-99 02:49 PM ET slight disagreement with you, Tarot. In my opinion, the Hive is an excellent builder faction. Their natural boost to Growth and Industry allows them to crank out base facilities quickly and build truly monster Cities. Use Planned with them, and you've got +3 growth, +3 Industry with NO downside. as for the -2 Econ, after the REALLY early game, once you can start terraforming, it's no big deal.
Natguy	posted 05-03-99 06:23 PM ET Yeah, my best infrastructure ever was as the Hive.
Smeagol	posted 05-03-99 07:41 PM ET I agree with Schoop. If I want to play a military faction then the hive is an excellent choice because they build so well. Since I'm concentrating on domination more than anything else, I won't use free market in these games anyway, so not being able to get the magic +2 economy isn't the biggest deal. Just make sure you have the power by the latter portion of midgame.
Krickett	posted 05-04-99 05:04 PM ET Beware use of build strategy w/ the Hive. Later on they suffer crippling inefficiency.
trippin daily	posted 05-04-99 05:13 PM ET ummm, Kricket, no the Hive doesn't suffer from crippling inefficiancy. They are immune to negative penalities under efficiancy as of v. 3.0. Trippin Daily -Anybody know where I can find the green version of trainspotting (i know, dumb ?? but who knows, i may get lucky)-
Smeagol	posted 05-04-99 05:15 PM ET trippin-- Yeah, but at 0 efficiency they still can't expand as much as many other factions and will suffer from some serious inefficiency penalties. Are you more drugged up than usual today?
trippin daily	posted 05-04-99 05:23 PM ET LMAO... well smeagol... I can neither confirm nor deny that drugs may be present in my system Trippin Daily -dammit smeagol, you got me.... shhhh-
JT 3	posted 05-04-99 09:48 PM ET I can neither confirm or deny that trippin has drugs in his system. I can, however, offer you these pills that will make you feel happy. Remember, I am not endorsing or shunning this product. I cannot confirm or deny that I was ever here.
Dowdc	posted 05-05-99 04:40 PM ET The best builder (as Smeagol knows well) is the PK's. Try playing them, even though they're wussy. Build energy banks and network nodes ASAP. Also get children's creches. Once you have enough farmed squares, go planned (already be democracy) to get magic +6 growth. Or you could just pump up luxuries to get Golden Ages. Boom for 10 turns. Now all of your cities are size 10-16. Get clean reactor first thing. Make an obscene amount of clean formers. Terraform eveything..... Then get tree farm/hybrid forest. Build these next. They're just like banks in Civ, but much better. They're the best base facilities in existence. Build all these things as quick as possible. Tech is unimportant, except for the forementioned items. Put tax as high as it'll go and buy these buildings. Minerals do it too slow. Spend 1000's. Wonders are not really even important, except for Human Genome to get Golden Ages really easy. During all of this, only produce as much military as it takes to defend your borders. Don't even build command centers unless under attack. Give tech away like candy to maintain peace. Get as many pacts as possible. Don't mess around with changing society to maintain peace, give tech/money instead. Then you get an unstopable economy and the ga me is all but won. It's easy from there... That's builder school 101 Dowd-style.
Dowdc	posted 05-05-99 04:44 PM ET Oh yeah, stay free market for the WHOLE game, except when you go planned for pop. boom. But that's only for 10 turns. The WHOLE game. I'm serious. Well except for around turn 200-300 when you just want to kill everybody. Then try green/power combo.
K	posted 05-07-99 05:13 AM ET Hey Dowdc, By the time I get the tech for Hybrid forests and clean reacors, I can have at least three factions as submissive Pact Brothers. My usual stategy is to wait on builing facilities unitil the 2+ limits on resources get lifted, and by then I've got so many formers ready and working anyway that I seem to have backed into a builder stategy. Usually to get into a really good war I make sure each base has about three Boreholes if I need it to produce units. I think the ultimate stategy is to Explore, then Conquer, then Build, then Discover, in that order. Explore to get Pods and recon. Conquer to create submissive pack brothers, weaken rivals, and secure safe borders. Build to take that leap in power now that your borders are safe for annoying attacks that force you to change production. Discover to be so far ahead in tech that you blast them with hovertanks while they still play around with Non-orbotal drop pods.