how many technologys you need for transcend victory ?

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Author Topic:   how many technologys you need for transcend victory ?

AlphaMaster posted 04-19-99 08:37 AM ET
how many technologies you need for transcend victory ? Is it true that you need all? Or do i have to decide which special way in research i have to go ?
ehh posted 04-19-99 10:37 AM ET
yes you need all tech.
After you've researched the last tech before trancendent thought (I can't come up with the name right now), you've got to build two secret projects:
- the ascendance to trancendance
and
- (damn i cant come up with that name either)
well anyway, after you've build the ascendance you'll get a messae that now every faction (so also the factions without any tech) can start building the project. The first faction that completes it winns.
so you win by building the project, not by researching alone.
PS. maybe the last project is ascendance and i,ve forgotten the other name:-)
trippin daily posted 04-19-99 12:35 PM ET
A whole **** lot.
Hunterseeker posted 04-19-99 03:38 PM ET
To be correct, you first have to build the Voice of Alpha Centauri SP, and then the Ascent to Transcendence.
AlphaMaster posted 04-19-99 04:03 PM ET
It is really a lot if you need all techs (77). And if you play a higher level with 400 years you have to develop every 5,19 years one tech (by average). this is hard stuff !!!!!!
Schoop posted 04-19-99 04:10 PM ET
Actually, it's not quite ALL the tech.
But close enough as makes no odds. There's about 7 you don't NEED to get the transcendence victory. Chances are you'll get them before you finish the Transcendence Victory unless you have a LOT of cash.
Plato90s posted 04-19-99 06:14 PM ET
Getting to Trascendance isn't as hard as you'd think. Toward the end, you are getting techs every 2 turns. Add the fact that you can actually get 5 of the techs for free [3 secrets and Universal Translator] in addition to stealing techs from other factions.
JT 3 posted 04-19-99 09:20 PM ET
And trading, and artifacts.
You need to build Voice of Planet. Once you build that, the Ascent to Trancendance becomes available. Build that, and you win.
Koshko posted 04-19-99 11:33 PM ET
A real cool part is the Transedent Thoughts. Each one gives you +10 pts to your Final Score. By the end of the game, you could easily produce one a turn w/ a large population. I picked up over 30 of them by the time I went Transendance the first time.
HolyWarrior posted 04-20-99 12:07 AM ET
Schoop, do you have the same tech tree that I have? I have backtracked through the tree, and unlike Civ1 which had some utterly useless techs (Chivalry comes to mind), every single tech in the tree is needed to gain Transcendence.
Yep, those Transcendent Thoughts can really help your score. AFAIR there is an entry in the 'Dictionary of SMAC' thread called 'Running up the Score' that mentions this idea.
Schoop posted 04-20-99 12:12 AM ET
HolyWarrior, I've got the Tech Tree right next to me. You do need everything to get Transcendant Thought, but that's not the same as the Transcendence Victory. You only need Threshold of Transcendence to win the Transcendence Victory.
You don't need Controlled Singularity, Applied Gravitronics, Gravitron Theory, Quantum Machinery, Singularity Mechanics, Quantum Power, or Frictionless Surfaces to get Threshold of Transcendence.
ehh posted 04-20-99 07:09 AM ET
It's also important to realise that you don't have to be the one to build the voice of planet SP. If another faction has all tech and you don't (suck bigtime, bye the way) and the other faction build the voice of planet you can still win the game by building ascent to trancendance.
I once won this way when i was playing Peacekeepers one a huge map. Deirdre was far ahead of me (twice as big in the faction dominace chart) Just when i was about to abandon all hope, i got the message that i could begin building acsent SP. I won by having ALL my cities build supply transports and let them help to build the SP.
I completed the thing in 5 years (pretty damn fast).
HolyWarrior posted 04-21-99 03:18 AM ET
You're right, Schoop. The upper left side of the tech tree is not needed for the Ascent to Transcendence.
All the same, it's nice for 'Running up the Score' before building the project.
Plato90s posted 04-21-99 03:30 AM ET
Actually, in a recent game I build both the Voice of Planet and the Ascent to Transcendance plus 2 other SPs in two turns.
Not that difficult when you have about about 10,000 credits from 80% taxation and about 15 supply crawlers lying around.
Once work has started on a SP [meaning some production points already went in], the cost of hurrying it to completion is reduced substantially. In building the Voice of Planet, it would have cost ~7,000 credits to rush it to completion. But after moving in 3 crawlers which I had tapping boreholes for energy, the cost for hurrying it dropped to <2,000 credits.
The Ascent costs 2,000 minerals to produce. If you try to hurry it, the cost is ~20,000 credits. But move in about 5 crawlers, use social engineering to pick up all the mineral bonuses you can [it's not like SE matters any more once you build the Ascent]. The 40% discount on minerals means I bought the Ascent for ~5,000 credits.
BTW, I think way too many points are awarded for the Ascent. The identical game, when won with a cooperative conquest [everyone dead except Pact Brothers] is only 223% while Ascent gives 317% score. Slightly unfair, since I figure I can beat back all those stinkin' mindworms for as long as necessary. I've played games where I had to put down 7-8 piles of Demon Boils every turn and still managed to grow my faction.
AlphaMaster posted 04-21-99 05:32 AM ET
Thanks for all this discussion. It helps a lot.
Klug posted 04-22-99 01:32 PM ET
Plato90s, I concur with you. I had a Thinker level playing the UOP. I ended up with 313% at year 2374, but I had the votes to win diplomatically about 50 years earlier. My score would have been half if didn't wait and go the Ascendency route. I had already essentially won the game in every sense. It was rediculous to wait like 50 turns to maximize my score when I had won the game much earlier.
Answer to original question: 77 technologies
+/- 1 or 2 techs...
Zoetrope posted 04-23-99 05:04 AM ET
It always seemed to me that in any game the best win is usually the earliest win, and that the score should reflect that.
So it's a pity that the MOOs and Civs don't adequately reflect that.
Obviously there should be a weighting for the odds you face, but their scoring systems don't much reflect that either.
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Author	Topic: how many technologys you need for transcend victory ?
AlphaMaster	posted 04-19-99 08:37 AM ET how many technologies you need for transcend victory ? Is it true that you need all? Or do i have to decide which special way in research i have to go ?
ehh	posted 04-19-99 10:37 AM ET yes you need all tech. After you've researched the last tech before trancendent thought (I can't come up with the name right now), you've got to build two secret projects: - the ascendance to trancendance and - (damn i cant come up with that name either) well anyway, after you've build the ascendance you'll get a messae that now every faction (so also the factions without any tech) can start building the project. The first faction that completes it winns. so you win by building the project, not by researching alone. PS. maybe the last project is ascendance and i,ve forgotten the other name:-)
trippin daily	posted 04-19-99 12:35 PM ET A whole **** lot.
Hunterseeker	posted 04-19-99 03:38 PM ET To be correct, you first have to build the Voice of Alpha Centauri SP, and then the Ascent to Transcendence.
AlphaMaster	posted 04-19-99 04:03 PM ET It is really a lot if you need all techs (77). And if you play a higher level with 400 years you have to develop every 5,19 years one tech (by average). this is hard stuff !!!!!!
Schoop	posted 04-19-99 04:10 PM ET Actually, it's not quite ALL the tech. But close enough as makes no odds. There's about 7 you don't NEED to get the transcendence victory. Chances are you'll get them before you finish the Transcendence Victory unless you have a LOT of cash.
Plato90s	posted 04-19-99 06:14 PM ET Getting to Trascendance isn't as hard as you'd think. Toward the end, you are getting techs every 2 turns. Add the fact that you can actually get 5 of the techs for free [3 secrets and Universal Translator] in addition to stealing techs from other factions.
JT 3	posted 04-19-99 09:20 PM ET And trading, and artifacts. You need to build Voice of Planet. Once you build that, the Ascent to Trancendance becomes available. Build that, and you win.
Koshko	posted 04-19-99 11:33 PM ET A real cool part is the Transedent Thoughts. Each one gives you +10 pts to your Final Score. By the end of the game, you could easily produce one a turn w/ a large population. I picked up over 30 of them by the time I went Transendance the first time.
HolyWarrior	posted 04-20-99 12:07 AM ET Schoop, do you have the same tech tree that I have? I have backtracked through the tree, and unlike Civ1 which had some utterly useless techs (Chivalry comes to mind), every single tech in the tree is needed to gain Transcendence. Yep, those Transcendent Thoughts can really help your score. AFAIR there is an entry in the 'Dictionary of SMAC' thread called 'Running up the Score' that mentions this idea.
Schoop	posted 04-20-99 12:12 AM ET HolyWarrior, I've got the Tech Tree right next to me. You do need everything to get Transcendant Thought, but that's not the same as the Transcendence Victory. You only need Threshold of Transcendence to win the Transcendence Victory. You don't need Controlled Singularity, Applied Gravitronics, Gravitron Theory, Quantum Machinery, Singularity Mechanics, Quantum Power, or Frictionless Surfaces to get Threshold of Transcendence.
ehh	posted 04-20-99 07:09 AM ET It's also important to realise that you don't have to be the one to build the voice of planet SP. If another faction has all tech and you don't (suck bigtime, bye the way) and the other faction build the voice of planet you can still win the game by building ascent to trancendance. I once won this way when i was playing Peacekeepers one a huge map. Deirdre was far ahead of me (twice as big in the faction dominace chart) Just when i was about to abandon all hope, i got the message that i could begin building acsent SP. I won by having ALL my cities build supply transports and let them help to build the SP. I completed the thing in 5 years (pretty damn fast).
HolyWarrior	posted 04-21-99 03:18 AM ET You're right, Schoop. The upper left side of the tech tree is not needed for the Ascent to Transcendence. All the same, it's nice for 'Running up the Score' before building the project.
Plato90s	posted 04-21-99 03:30 AM ET Actually, in a recent game I build both the Voice of Planet and the Ascent to Transcendance plus 2 other SPs in two turns. Not that difficult when you have about about 10,000 credits from 80% taxation and about 15 supply crawlers lying around. Once work has started on a SP [meaning some production points already went in], the cost of hurrying it to completion is reduced substantially. In building the Voice of Planet, it would have cost ~7,000 credits to rush it to completion. But after moving in 3 crawlers which I had tapping boreholes for energy, the cost for hurrying it dropped to <2,000 credits. The Ascent costs 2,000 minerals to produce. If you try to hurry it, the cost is ~20,000 credits. But move in about 5 crawlers, use social engineering to pick up all the mineral bonuses you can [it's not like SE matters any more once you build the Ascent]. The 40% discount on minerals means I bought the Ascent for ~5,000 credits. BTW, I think way too many points are awarded for the Ascent. The identical game, when won with a cooperative conquest [everyone dead except Pact Brothers] is only 223% while Ascent gives 317% score. Slightly unfair, since I figure I can beat back all those stinkin' mindworms for as long as necessary. I've played games where I had to put down 7-8 piles of Demon Boils every turn and still managed to grow my faction.
AlphaMaster	posted 04-21-99 05:32 AM ET Thanks for all this discussion. It helps a lot.
Klug	posted 04-22-99 01:32 PM ET Plato90s, I concur with you. I had a Thinker level playing the UOP. I ended up with 313% at year 2374, but I had the votes to win diplomatically about 50 years earlier. My score would have been half if didn't wait and go the Ascendency route. I had already essentially won the game in every sense. It was rediculous to wait like 50 turns to maximize my score when I had won the game much earlier. Answer to original question: 77 technologies +/- 1 or 2 techs...
Zoetrope	posted 04-23-99 05:04 AM ET It always seemed to me that in any game the best win is usually the earliest win, and that the score should reflect that. So it's a pity that the MOOs and Civs don't adequately reflect that. Obviously there should be a weighting for the odds you face, but their scoring systems don't much reflect that either.