posted 09-30-99 02:25 PM ET            

I also think that many of faction choices by Firaxis seem... well, frankly, odd and weak in the creativity department. They had problems with their original 7, and just seem to be getting worse. Just because a FAN may have made a similar faction wasn't a reason not to do an official one.

Although buccaneers can be forgiven. Many people liked playing a pirate when growing up...

Still, I'm interested to see what kind of buzz SMACAX is going to generate, especially with the hardcore.

posted 09-30-99 09:11 PM ET            

If you look at the factions revealed so far they are basically just exaggerated originals.

I'll probably still have lots of fun playing them, but as I said before, there were so many other great faction ideas on these forums that they could have worked with.

The new faction editor should breed a host of new faction ideas hopefully.

posted 10-01-99 02:29 PM ET            

I think a few of the original factions are pretty darned weak on the believability or the projected beliefs scale. Then there is weak as an opponent.

I like Morgan. A Robber Baron/Capitalist sort, out to have everything run like a business. Works out to be the weakest opponent faction of the orig 7 though. Is a challenge to play to many as Morgan's people take a different style of play from most TBS Civ like games.

Zak and his UoP seem a little iffy. What's the true heart of their factional belief system? Research? Souless Science, or recreating the world of Acadamia? These guys seem to be missing a lot of basics to be able to function. Without the administrative side, these guys would fall down or roll over for someone that can bruise up the bruisers beating them. So on believable sustainable society, they get a 0. They tend to be about bottom of the barrel for opp as well, so that's a complete strike out as factions go (though they are a FAVORITE of mine to PLAY, and is their only redeeming quality to me).

The Peacekeepers are just trying to get everyone to come back into the fold, and follow the mission charter, under the PROPER authority. It's not that the others AREN'T following the mission's objective, colonize and do well, they just aren't recognizing the official "Chain of command". Petty, but understandable. They are a mediocre opposition, but the could have been worse and aren't. So they get past as a good thing, although I find them a very BORING faction (personal opinion, I know).

The Believers come across as a Miriam Cult. She is the Prophet/Oracle guiding them to their spiritual purpose as suits her whims/desires/beliefs. THAT'S fine. Mansom, David Carroch, Rev. Moone... many many have done this. Great opponent faction with her high aggression and expansion principles. And she is one of the most hated of opposition, so the Believers are a 10 out of 10. This is one of the few GEMS. (These guys are so strong as a PLAYER faction, that I stopped playing them early on. Made the game too easy with my play style to be very enjoyable.)

The Hive... What's this faction REALLY based on? Yang's Personal Charisma, or people wanting an efficent Big Brother to protect them and help guide them in life? I can never tell, although I lean toward's it being just a Yang cult. If it was a cult based on Yang's charisma, well, we already have that... Believers. Another one? Boring. (And yes, there are more to come where that is the only thing holding it together.) So that makes it mid to low on concept, and it only WORKS if it IS a Yang cult. As an Opponent faction, these guys are great. Expansionist that are Aggressive. And a good player faction for the same reasons its a good opponent, good building and defense. So while it lacks originality, it's a welcome addition in the Contest/Obstacles department. And who doesn't like being a Dictator/Tyrant for life?

Gaians - Ugh. ANOTHER personal cult. Well, at least this one is based on something more than how to turn a society into slaves for the leader's will. Or is it? They want to live in peace and harmony with their environment, so long as it's only a MINOR inconvience to their lifestyle. What? Don't believe me? Check out how they do things. Worst violators of planet there is. If a faction is going to play biology, they have to recognize that primates are highly destructive to their environments especially with their waste. The best thing they could REALLY do for the environment is to kill themselves. But since they aren't... This is another faction that doesn't seem to have the glue to stick together without the Charisma of it's leader. As opponents go, this is a mediocre one. Sometimes good, sometimes not. But as it favors SE choices that many players often like, that gives it the spot of being a nice ally. And as a player faction, it's pretty good. So aside from it's believability as a surviving society (The masses as slaves issue... What's with the rival of the feudal system? That's spells personal megalomania... holding the masses hostage for oxygen. Would YOU like to live like that... The lords and ladies taking what they want?) is like, 0, it's a good addition to game.

Bringing us to the absolute WORST faction in the game... the First Amemdment Nuts... the Spartans. These guys are based on the right to keep and bear arms... that's about the only thing that comes across. They aren't based on surviving at all cost against ruthless people and environments... at least, not how they are projected in the US version. Just another "militia". These are all personal cults with leaders that have a serious problem or a serious desire to remove their sheep and toys from the influences of others so that they can run them and use them like they want. Bah. A long term society is going to need something more then Santiago's desire to have a harem/stable of willing toys for her games and amusement. As opponents go, they are mediocre to poor... and I just don't personally find them interesting to play. So the subtraction of these wouldn't be a loss to many (although you Spartan players will disagree). Frankly, if their leader was a boy, rather then a girl, most people would clue RIGHT in that this is a sorry cult.

I know everyone has their opinions, and I realize that all 7 Factions would of COURSE have elements of Personal Cults to them. They are formed around their spokespeople's belief. But too many of them are dependent ENTIRELY on that cult. We get painted a few pictures that say 'This one is suppose to be that way', but... Science Fiction is about extending the believability of reality, science, and the working of things. And frankly, only a few of SMAC's factions have this. And now they aren't even trying on the new stuff... pirates, and probes, and cyborgs, oh my! and Be careful of the lumpheads!

Well, at least there are new toys.

You know, if they hadn't decided to force you to *need* their faction editor, you'd have a lot more faction customizing going on. But they wanted to turn up the heat on those who say SMACAX as not being worth the $$$. ACEdit was a fine and free editor. I wonder if they have added in the new version 4 binary field coding so it works again?

posted 10-01-99 03:09 PM ET            

Spartans: Superficially, they're the SECOND Amendment nuts (the first Amendment is the Four Freedoms). But I agree, they feel like a random "aggressive faction" thrown in at the last minute.

Hive: This I can buy: totalitarianism ALWAYS has its strong supporters, and the idea of state protection for everybody does have some merit. The Chinese have often said that America is neglecting "basic human rights" by not having jobs and residences for everyone.
Morgan, Peacekeeper and Believer: Perfectly believable. I find Morgan to be a stronger opponent if you give him an interest in Population Growth as well as Wealth, btw. Doesn't change his abilities, just how the AI plays him.

posted 10-03-99 11:22 AM ET            

Have you not read anything about alien crossfire? 2-lumpheads, pirates, probe team, cyborgs, drones, and ecological factions compose the new factions.

Darkstar,
I think the ecological faction may be a much better Gaian faction with regards to your cult theory. We'll have to wait and see though.