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Author Topic:   Miriam vs. Santiago...

pHunny_pHarmer posted 09-08-99 06:20 PM ET
I've been thinking as I played my last game. It seems like the Believers and the Spartans have a *similar* faction strength. The Believers have a 25% attack bonus. The Spartans have +2 morale, which gives 25% on defence. So, excluding morale modifiers and social engeneering, a fight between Miriam and Santiago have similar bonuses.
However, this arguement could be refuted by the fact that there is a 2:1 ratio attack/defence. So, a 25% bonus to attack means more than one to defence. However, Miriam cannot get attack techs quickly (excluding external factors), and so her attack bonus is reduced due to her technological inferiority. Santiago can equalize quickly in that way.
Santiago, however, has a 12.5% attack bonus in addition (due to her extra morale). Miriam does not have a respective defensive bonus.
So, in a way, it seems that the major difference (excluding all external factors) between the Believers and the Spartans becomes a difference between their respective extra advantages and disadvantages. I would much rather have the Spartan's +1 police and free prototypes than have the beliver's +1 probe. In addition, there is still the factor of the -2 science and -1 planet for the believers, and the -1 industry for the Spartans.
However, the battle between them cannot be this simplified. The believers can always gain tech and morale by outside sources, but the Spartans can never have a direct 25% attack bonus.
MajiK6pt5 posted 09-08-99 08:52 PM ET
Yes, you are underestimating the Believers probe bonus. They already have +1, and when they use fundy (they have to) they get +3. This makes them almost invulnerable to probe teams, and they can steal whomever's tech they want. In all the games that I have played against Miriam and Santiago (Single Player) Miriam is almost always near the top, while Santiago almost always gets crushed (even sometimes, by me, and considering that I'm a builder, that's pretty sad). I think the key difference is that Santiago builds units for quality not quantity, whereas Miriam does the exact opposite. With her swarms of units, it's very hard to beat her, because five 6-1-1 troops can probably kill two 13-5-1 troops. Plus she gets that attack bonus. Also, I don't think either of them build a lot of base facilities, but Miriam would definitely have the upper hand since she can steal the tech to build them, and Santiago (who probably won't use Knowledge) might not have even researched them, and then gets that -1 Industry.
MajiK6pt5 posted 09-08-99 08:55 PM ET
Oops, forgot one thing...
Miriam also has the HUGE advantage that she expands like wildfire, whereas the Spartans don't expand AT ALL. I expand faster than them, and I usually have about 10 relatively large cities in midgame...This gives the believers way more unit production capacity (since all their units are cheap anyway). Also, they take land away from their neighbors (future rivals) very effectively.
Lord Beselwick posted 09-11-99 03:57 PM ET
People totally undrestimate Miriam. I'm a fan !! (Check myy post over in the Factions section). When you use Fundy with her her probe teams are immediatley are the best in the game. And Secret Projects like The Planetary Datalinks, and the Network Backbone van really help. Beating Zakharov into a submission pact gives him over to you. So there's plenty of ways to overcome the research defecit.
Tally Ho,
Lord Beselwick
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Author	Topic: Miriam vs. Santiago...
pHunny_pHarmer	posted 09-08-99 06:20 PM ET I've been thinking as I played my last game. It seems like the Believers and the Spartans have a similar faction strength. The Believers have a 25% attack bonus. The Spartans have +2 morale, which gives 25% on defence. So, excluding morale modifiers and social engeneering, a fight between Miriam and Santiago have similar bonuses. However, this arguement could be refuted by the fact that there is a 2:1 ratio attack/defence. So, a 25% bonus to attack means more than one to defence. However, Miriam cannot get attack techs quickly (excluding external factors), and so her attack bonus is reduced due to her technological inferiority. Santiago can equalize quickly in that way. Santiago, however, has a 12.5% attack bonus in addition (due to her extra morale). Miriam does not have a respective defensive bonus. So, in a way, it seems that the major difference (excluding all external factors) between the Believers and the Spartans becomes a difference between their respective extra advantages and disadvantages. I would much rather have the Spartan's +1 police and free prototypes than have the beliver's +1 probe. In addition, there is still the factor of the -2 science and -1 planet for the believers, and the -1 industry for the Spartans. However, the battle between them cannot be this simplified. The believers can always gain tech and morale by outside sources, but the Spartans can never have a direct 25% attack bonus.
MajiK6pt5	posted 09-08-99 08:52 PM ET Yes, you are underestimating the Believers probe bonus. They already have +1, and when they use fundy (they have to) they get +3. This makes them almost invulnerable to probe teams, and they can steal whomever's tech they want. In all the games that I have played against Miriam and Santiago (Single Player) Miriam is almost always near the top, while Santiago almost always gets crushed (even sometimes, by me, and considering that I'm a builder, that's pretty sad). I think the key difference is that Santiago builds units for quality not quantity, whereas Miriam does the exact opposite. With her swarms of units, it's very hard to beat her, because five 6-1-1 troops can probably kill two 13-5-1 troops. Plus she gets that attack bonus. Also, I don't think either of them build a lot of base facilities, but Miriam would definitely have the upper hand since she can steal the tech to build them, and Santiago (who probably won't use Knowledge) might not have even researched them, and then gets that -1 Industry.
MajiK6pt5	posted 09-08-99 08:55 PM ET Oops, forgot one thing... Miriam also has the HUGE advantage that she expands like wildfire, whereas the Spartans don't expand AT ALL. I expand faster than them, and I usually have about 10 relatively large cities in midgame...This gives the believers way more unit production capacity (since all their units are cheap anyway). Also, they take land away from their neighbors (future rivals) very effectively.
Lord Beselwick	posted 09-11-99 03:57 PM ET People totally undrestimate Miriam. I'm a fan !! (Check myy post over in the Factions section). When you use Fundy with her her probe teams are immediatley are the best in the game. And Secret Projects like The Planetary Datalinks, and the Network Backbone van really help. Beating Zakharov into a submission pact gives him over to you. So there's plenty of ways to overcome the research defecit. Tally Ho, Lord Beselwick