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Author Topic:   Razing Cities?

Kestril posted 08-09-99 11:42 AM ET
Is there any way to raze enemy cities, so they dont exist any more if they have a population of over 1? Im playing as the Morganites, and it galls at how stupid the AI is in regards to city placement. In fact, I begin to wonder if the code that determines AI city placement has been altered since Civilisation, because they still keep putting cities right next to each other...
Anyway - rant aside, is there any way I can raze those damned waste of space enemy cities, and make full use of all those lovely resources?
Thanks
akathisia posted 08-09-99 12:03 PM ET
With one of your combat units inside the base, hit "B" and you can destroy the base and kill all citizens inside. This works for both your home-grown and captured bases. However, I think you get sanctions if you do that to your own base and BIG sanctions if you do it to a captured base. Plus, the faction you just got the base from will be severely annoyed at you and may be in forever Vendetta from that point on.
You could always just build Colony Pods until the base disbands. No sanctions if you destroy the Colony Pods and a chance for a whole bunch of new bases.
akathisia
SMAniaC posted 08-09-99 01:12 PM ET
Stupid newbies. Can't you read the manual?
Kestril posted 08-10-99 01:03 AM ET
Thanks Ak. Im not really worried about going into Vendetta with the other Factions at this point, since the other Factions are the Spartans, Hive, and Believers - theyve already killed off the Gaians and the Peacekeepers, and the University is sure to go any time soon. I probably will be in Vendetta against them for the rest of the game, bastards.
Colony pod trick just takes to long when you come up against a 9 pop city.
icosahedron posted 08-10-99 01:14 PM ET
You want to destroy a 9-pop city? What, are you nuts?
- icosahedron
akathisia posted 08-10-99 02:26 PM ET
Or is it...What are you, nuts?
How bad of a base could it be with a pop of 9? Can't you salvage something out of it?
BTW, being in forever Vendetta isn't all its cracked up to be. The AI will never (well almost never) surrender and you'll have to conquer them totally. That includes every single one of their 50 pop 2 sea bases.
That's the true curse of using Nerve Gas. Sure, you'll kill all their citizens, their votes will dwindle and you'll be elected Supreme Leader. Then you'll have to wipe out every single base of the rebelling factions. I think they can build them faster than my LoC and XCopters can reach them.
akathisia-soon will be the most veteran person here....how sad
Kestril posted 08-11-99 01:06 AM ET
Well, if it were a 9 pop base, I might be tempted to keep it - but, the AI is so lame, I cant see any cities above 5. All their crappy little cities are built 2 squares apart, totally destroyng their ability to provide me with any real challenge when we get into a long extended war.
How hard would it be to make them not place cities less than 4 squares apart?
Beta1 posted 08-11-99 01:26 PM ET
I often raze cities if I cant be bothered to hold on to them if a counterattack looks likely - At this point I've probably nuked/gassed enough of their other cities to make them hate me anyway!
Beta-1
Is polishing his projectiles...
SMAniaC posted 08-11-99 01:51 PM ET
Kestril : to me that's a very high priority for Civ3 : decent AI city placement.
I wonder why that isn't fixed yet after 3 versions of civlike games.
Or perhaps they're doing it on purpose and the AI uses ICS !
SMAniaC posted 08-11-99 01:53 PM ET
Beta1 : If a counterattack is likely and I'm sure that I'm gonna loose the city, I give it to one of my submissive allies. If necessary, I can always reask the city.
The Builder posted 08-12-99 08:20 AM ET

BTW, if you are scared by the thought of diplomatic consequences of razing an base, do it while sunstorms prevent all communication so that no one cane hear their cries.
Up to the Sky!
The Builder
Kestril posted 08-12-99 11:06 AM ET
Unfortunately, in the game Im presently playing - I dont have any allies so I cant give them cities, though I must admit - thats a fiendishly useful trick.
Actually, since I have virtually every Secret Project - didnt get Planetary Datalinks or Planetary Transit System - razing an enemy city doesnt effect me much, beyond the faction hit.
I can get a city to 6 pop in 6 turns, with enough money to buy the Hab Complex and Hab Dome straight off. As Morgan, I find the other factions inefficient use of resources galling.
Zoetrope posted 08-13-99 06:37 AM ET
Mindworms: produce or capture ten, release them into the wild (handy version 4.0 option) next to a pop 10 undefended base, and wham! no more base, and no loss of reputation.
(Might have to repeat if the worms wander off for their own inscrutable reasons.)
ZyXEL posted 08-16-99 02:02 AM ET
DO NOT RAZE YOUR OWN CITIES !!! If they're too close to each other, use SUPPLY CRAWLERS to feed them. When I take that kind of bases (usualy Hive), I find a nice little spot, make a bounch of condensers, farms, enrichers and use crawlers to feed my hungry minions.
Also use orbital improvements.
btw read the damn manual
- just checking
ZyXEL
Biddles posted 08-16-99 11:47 PM ET
I find that it is only the Hive and the Believers that build cities that close, maybee it's in their AI to do so.
By the way, does anybody know a good defence for conventional missiles?
-Biddles
MoSe posted 08-20-99 10:08 AM ET
Hhmmmm... still someone blaming newbies here? tut tut...
Doesn't Shakespeare get played over and over over the centuries?
I was a fanatic too of cherry-picking base placements in CivII. Things can be looked at from a different perspective here in SMAC.
First of all, base placement can't be blamed as ill just because they are near. There's a strategy that requires to actually cram them the most near one to another that you can, i.e. leaving only ome tile space between them. It's a sound strategy, ant it's based on the extra-worker you get in each base. It hase been thoroughly studied. I tried it, I can't just master it, and I disagree with some of its points, but you can't dismiss it as a flaw. IIRC, I first read of it from Prerogative, ancient poster here.
Second reason for base placement, is acces to resources. In CivII if you let a square outside of city zone, those tiles resources were never to be exploited. What a waste.
Her in SMAC you have....
SUPPLY CRAWLERS
With these units, you can convoy resources to home base from anty tile you want. Their correct and convenient use is a major point in SMAC gameplay. There are things you have to know about them, but if you overlook them, you'll miss one big feature. Which greatly influences your decisions on base placing.
So, razing a base has its own reasons, but correcting ill base placement is not the major one. Especially if the base is a big one. In this case, you could build crawlers to (partially) exploit tiles out of base range. The other issue could be land control, or access to sea, for instance. Another tool is new to SMAC: advanced terraforming; if you need access to sea, you could lower the blocking land tile.
If you really want to shift the base you conquered, I assume you just don't need to do it for just one tile displacement. Agreed on that, I guess it's anyway better for a big base to crank out pods as fast as you can, since you can buld up together all those new pods in one single base, to have it start fast with a size compared to the disbanded one.
MoSe posted 08-20-99 10:11 AM ET
Biddles: AAA units, Aerospace complexes. And <big weaponed> AAA air units, for air combat.
Lord Beselwick posted 08-23-99 05:40 PM ET
To however said the faction who's base you razed will be annoyed is y wrong. You're they're sworn enemy forever. Even if you just nrvestaple a conquered base they call you a butcher. So just a correction.
Tally Ho,
Lord Beselwick
Aredhran posted 08-24-99 08:29 AM ET
Tactic Against Missiles (and other attacks too):
Prerequisite: high support rate
Build a bunch of very cheap 1-1-1 units and make them primary defender, and back up with counterstrike units.
The missiles will blow the defenders up - big deal, they only cost 10... And if it's a conventional attack, that nasty-looking 13-1-2 rover will bust one, maybe two and then be helpless against your counterstrike.
Aredhran
Rakeesh posted 08-24-99 12:35 PM ET
In some tech-stagnation/no-spoils of war type games I find it useful to just take a base, then leave it open (set to stockpile resources so they don't steal any of your money), and just keep capturing and re-capturing it. Eventually it dies off, you kill a gazillion of the enemy offensive units, steal some cash, and come out of it with nobody except your enemy mad at you.
I admit this takes a lot of patience, but it works... and, if all else fails, get all your friends to vendetta on that one person you hate. They'll go bankrupt (a la U.S. tactics with Cuba).
Now, I've seen EVERY AI player do that annoying one-base-every-one-square thing. Strangely enough, its never in resource rich areas (IE: Jungle, uranium flats, large valley). They always do it in arid areas with very few surface bonuses. I wish they wouldn't do that... its just a HUGE temptation for my PBs, and.. I can't be held responsible right after I bribe...err.. convince enough people to repeal the UN charter.
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Author	Topic: Razing Cities?
Kestril	posted 08-09-99 11:42 AM ET Is there any way to raze enemy cities, so they dont exist any more if they have a population of over 1? Im playing as the Morganites, and it galls at how stupid the AI is in regards to city placement. In fact, I begin to wonder if the code that determines AI city placement has been altered since Civilisation, because they still keep putting cities right next to each other... Anyway - rant aside, is there any way I can raze those damned waste of space enemy cities, and make full use of all those lovely resources? Thanks
akathisia	posted 08-09-99 12:03 PM ET With one of your combat units inside the base, hit "B" and you can destroy the base and kill all citizens inside. This works for both your home-grown and captured bases. However, I think you get sanctions if you do that to your own base and BIG sanctions if you do it to a captured base. Plus, the faction you just got the base from will be severely annoyed at you and may be in forever Vendetta from that point on. You could always just build Colony Pods until the base disbands. No sanctions if you destroy the Colony Pods and a chance for a whole bunch of new bases. akathisia
SMAniaC	posted 08-09-99 01:12 PM ET Stupid newbies. Can't you read the manual?
Kestril	posted 08-10-99 01:03 AM ET Thanks Ak. Im not really worried about going into Vendetta with the other Factions at this point, since the other Factions are the Spartans, Hive, and Believers - theyve already killed off the Gaians and the Peacekeepers, and the University is sure to go any time soon. I probably will be in Vendetta against them for the rest of the game, bastards. Colony pod trick just takes to long when you come up against a 9 pop city.
icosahedron	posted 08-10-99 01:14 PM ET You want to destroy a 9-pop city? What, are you nuts? - icosahedron
akathisia	posted 08-10-99 02:26 PM ET Or is it...What are you, nuts? How bad of a base could it be with a pop of 9? Can't you salvage something out of it? BTW, being in forever Vendetta isn't all its cracked up to be. The AI will never (well almost never) surrender and you'll have to conquer them totally. That includes every single one of their 50 pop 2 sea bases. That's the true curse of using Nerve Gas. Sure, you'll kill all their citizens, their votes will dwindle and you'll be elected Supreme Leader. Then you'll have to wipe out every single base of the rebelling factions. I think they can build them faster than my LoC and XCopters can reach them. akathisia-soon will be the most veteran person here....how sad
Kestril	posted 08-11-99 01:06 AM ET Well, if it were a 9 pop base, I might be tempted to keep it - but, the AI is so lame, I cant see any cities above 5. All their crappy little cities are built 2 squares apart, totally destroyng their ability to provide me with any real challenge when we get into a long extended war. How hard would it be to make them not place cities less than 4 squares apart?
Beta1	posted 08-11-99 01:26 PM ET I often raze cities if I cant be bothered to hold on to them if a counterattack looks likely - At this point I've probably nuked/gassed enough of their other cities to make them hate me anyway! Beta-1 Is polishing his projectiles...
SMAniaC	posted 08-11-99 01:51 PM ET Kestril : to me that's a very high priority for Civ3 : decent AI city placement. I wonder why that isn't fixed yet after 3 versions of civlike games. Or perhaps they're doing it on purpose and the AI uses ICS !
SMAniaC	posted 08-11-99 01:53 PM ET Beta1 : If a counterattack is likely and I'm sure that I'm gonna loose the city, I give it to one of my submissive allies. If necessary, I can always reask the city.
The Builder	posted 08-12-99 08:20 AM ET BTW, if you are scared by the thought of diplomatic consequences of razing an base, do it while sunstorms prevent all communication so that no one cane hear their cries. Up to the Sky! The Builder
Kestril	posted 08-12-99 11:06 AM ET Unfortunately, in the game Im presently playing - I dont have any allies so I cant give them cities, though I must admit - thats a fiendishly useful trick. Actually, since I have virtually every Secret Project - didnt get Planetary Datalinks or Planetary Transit System - razing an enemy city doesnt effect me much, beyond the faction hit. I can get a city to 6 pop in 6 turns, with enough money to buy the Hab Complex and Hab Dome straight off. As Morgan, I find the other factions inefficient use of resources galling.
Zoetrope	posted 08-13-99 06:37 AM ET Mindworms: produce or capture ten, release them into the wild (handy version 4.0 option) next to a pop 10 undefended base, and wham! no more base, and no loss of reputation. (Might have to repeat if the worms wander off for their own inscrutable reasons.)
ZyXEL	posted 08-16-99 02:02 AM ET DO NOT RAZE YOUR OWN CITIES !!! If they're too close to each other, use SUPPLY CRAWLERS to feed them. When I take that kind of bases (usualy Hive), I find a nice little spot, make a bounch of condensers, farms, enrichers and use crawlers to feed my hungry minions. Also use orbital improvements. btw read the damn manual - just checking ZyXEL
Biddles	posted 08-16-99 11:47 PM ET I find that it is only the Hive and the Believers that build cities that close, maybee it's in their AI to do so. By the way, does anybody know a good defence for conventional missiles? -Biddles
MoSe	posted 08-20-99 10:08 AM ET Hhmmmm... still someone blaming newbies here? tut tut... Doesn't Shakespeare get played over and over over the centuries? I was a fanatic too of cherry-picking base placements in CivII. Things can be looked at from a different perspective here in SMAC. First of all, base placement can't be blamed as ill just because they are near. There's a strategy that requires to actually cram them the most near one to another that you can, i.e. leaving only ome tile space between them. It's a sound strategy, ant it's based on the extra-worker you get in each base. It hase been thoroughly studied. I tried it, I can't just master it, and I disagree with some of its points, but you can't dismiss it as a flaw. IIRC, I first read of it from Prerogative, ancient poster here. Second reason for base placement, is acces to resources. In CivII if you let a square outside of city zone, those tiles resources were never to be exploited. What a waste. Her in SMAC you have.... SUPPLY CRAWLERS With these units, you can convoy resources to home base from anty tile you want. Their correct and convenient use is a major point in SMAC gameplay. There are things you have to know about them, but if you overlook them, you'll miss one big feature. Which greatly influences your decisions on base placing. So, razing a base has its own reasons, but correcting ill base placement is not the major one. Especially if the base is a big one. In this case, you could build crawlers to (partially) exploit tiles out of base range. The other issue could be land control, or access to sea, for instance. Another tool is new to SMAC: advanced terraforming; if you need access to sea, you could lower the blocking land tile. If you really want to shift the base you conquered, I assume you just don't need to do it for just one tile displacement. Agreed on that, I guess it's anyway better for a big base to crank out pods as fast as you can, since you can buld up together all those new pods in one single base, to have it start fast with a size compared to the disbanded one.
MoSe	posted 08-20-99 10:11 AM ET Biddles: AAA units, Aerospace complexes. And <big weaponed> AAA air units, for air combat.
Lord Beselwick	posted 08-23-99 05:40 PM ET To however said the faction who's base you razed will be annoyed is y wrong. You're they're sworn enemy forever. Even if you just nrvestaple a conquered base they call you a butcher. So just a correction. Tally Ho, Lord Beselwick
Aredhran	posted 08-24-99 08:29 AM ET Tactic Against Missiles (and other attacks too): Prerequisite: high support rate Build a bunch of very cheap 1-1-1 units and make them primary defender, and back up with counterstrike units. The missiles will blow the defenders up - big deal, they only cost 10... And if it's a conventional attack, that nasty-looking 13-1-2 rover will bust one, maybe two and then be helpless against your counterstrike. Aredhran
Rakeesh	posted 08-24-99 12:35 PM ET In some tech-stagnation/no-spoils of war type games I find it useful to just take a base, then leave it open (set to stockpile resources so they don't steal any of your money), and just keep capturing and re-capturing it. Eventually it dies off, you kill a gazillion of the enemy offensive units, steal some cash, and come out of it with nobody except your enemy mad at you. I admit this takes a lot of patience, but it works... and, if all else fails, get all your friends to vendetta on that one person you hate. They'll go bankrupt (a la U.S. tactics with Cuba). Now, I've seen EVERY AI player do that annoying one-base-every-one-square thing. Strangely enough, its never in resource rich areas (IE: Jungle, uranium flats, large valley). They always do it in arid areas with very few surface bonuses. I wish they wouldn't do that... its just a HUGE temptation for my PBs, and.. I can't be held responsible right after I bribe...err.. convince enough people to repeal the UN charter.