Who here is against Bruce Shelley, and his exact replica of Civilization2?

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Author Topic:   Who here is against Bruce Shelley, and his exact replica of Civilization2?

itdoesntfit posted 07-13-99 09:26 PM ET

I after throughly playing this game, hate it. I realize I payed $39 for Civilization 2. Do you think this game is worse than Civilization2?
Yes: 1 No: 0

Krushala posted 07-13-99 10:50 PM ET
you know that argument has already been discussed a few weeks ago. Too bad they deleted the thread. Civ2 is better, but I don't play civ2 today, I play smac.
Krushala posted 07-13-99 10:51 PM ET
and who the **** is Bruce Shelley?
Zardoz posted 07-13-99 11:16 PM ET
What game are we talking about? Who is Bruce Shelley?
itdoesntfit posted 07-13-99 11:58 PM ET
It's the designer of Civilization
CelticWarLord posted 07-14-99 07:56 AM ET
Someone tell me if I've got this wrong - I thought it was:
Sid Meier designed Civ I (and many other games)
Bruce Shelley designed Civ II (with Sid Meier's consent) and also Age of Empires.
Brian Reynolds designed SMAC (again with Sid Meier's consent)
So if you do/don't like SMAC, Brian Reynolds is the main person responsible.
Of course SMAC is really Civ II with a few tweaks, but I think some of them are good - Social Engineering (and the effects on your relations with other factions) is a lot more interesting than six rigid government types. So is being able to design your own units - I would happily have paid 100 shields for Armour that could ignore City Walls like a Howitzer in Civ II, and now I can have it.
So I think all three Game Designers have done a great job. It's always possible to find fault somewhere, but I've had a lot of enjoyment out of their games.
CelticWarLord
Dman37 posted 07-14-99 09:53 AM ET
I agree with celtic warlord. This is a much more interesting game than civ2. Giving each of the factions a personality in the begining and having the great backstory were wonderful additions. It almost makes this a roleplaying strategy game. Civ2 was just a straight strategy game without the awankening planet, (a very cool adition) and many other tweaks. (see above post)
mindwormh8er posted 07-14-99 03:33 PM ET
Why don't you guys just choose a game and play it?
Dowdc posted 07-14-99 04:16 PM ET
I am getting really frustrated with this attitude: "SMAC is really just CIV II with a few tweaks."
That's like saying Quake is just Wolfenstein 3D with a few tweaks. Or Starcraft is just Dune II with a few tweaks. Or Wing Commander is just Defender with a few tweaks.
What's wrong with you that you can't recognize how incredible this game really is? Where's the awe? Where's the devotion?
This is quite possibly the best designed game of all time, and you're talking about it like it's just something else that came out this year.
CIV II can't hold a candle to SMAC. There's no reason to play CIV II again, ever. Maybe I could understand playing CIV I (which I always thought was better than II), but CIV II, why? What does it have to offer over SMAC?
itdoesntfit posted 07-14-99 04:16 PM ET
I think all but Civ2 sucks. I also like Gettysburg, Railroad Tycoon2, and any other game created by Sid Meier. Who thinks the game would be better if this game was designed by Meier? 1 for yes, -1 for no, and the scores:
example
1-1+1=1
1
itdoesntfit posted 07-14-99 04:30 PM ET
It has more strategy involved. Alpha Centauri is too easy. You don't need Diplomacy or science so badly. And plus to that, Civ2 is more realistic. That is probably I like Railroad Tycoon2 and Gettysburg so much and hate starcraft and warcraft 1 and 2.
itdoesntfit posted 07-14-99 04:32 PM ET
I made a mistake. It's Brian Reynolds (Bruce Shelly made CivI.
evil_conquerer posted 07-15-99 10:06 AM ET
"Civ2 is more realistic" -- Give me a break. Do you want SMAC to have phalanxes and muskies? Why not just ride a chariot to Alpha Centauri? It seems unrealistic because it's set in the future! Of course they have fusion lasers instead of muskets! As a matter of fact, SMAC employs very "hard" science fiction -- it doesn't just invent futuristic devices and "scientific" names for them. Almost all of the techs/weapons/armor are under development now or have been thought up by someone else, or even have been theorizes and shown to work in principle. According to Khan Singh's SMAC Dictionary, SMAC would be an 8 out of 10 on the "hardness" scale, with 1 being "Battlestar Galactica" and 10 being some book I've never heard of (has anybody seen it? Is it worth reading?).
itdoesntfit posted 07-15-99 10:59 AM ET
But the unit design is way too pathetic. Most of the units here have already been invented.
itdoesntfit posted 07-15-99 11:46 AM ET
And the story plot is pathetic. "The space ship breaks into 7 factions" Come on, be real, isn't this game just like Civ2, except this game doesn't have as many features.
Timexwatch posted 07-15-99 01:07 PM ET
The seven factions thing is just a plot device.
And the unit design isn't pathetic if you know what you are doing or if you tweak alpha.txt.....
Jythexinvok posted 07-16-99 12:35 AM ET
evil_conquerer: try books by Larry Niven. He's pretty hight on the hard-sf scale. His Known Space series is particuarly good.. books contained include everything from about 20 years from now up till a few thousand years away. It's safe to start anywhere in the series.. though you should be warned he does like to show off all the wierd bits of knowledge he has, so often plots revolve around the tech rather then the other way around.. think of it as the anti-startrek.
itdoesntfit posted 07-16-99 12:54 AM ET
How do you tweak the unit design?
1001100110001 posted 07-17-99 02:28 PM ET
press U, then go with the tour.
JohnIII posted 07-17-99 03:05 PM ET
"That's like saying Quake is just Wolfenstein 3D with a few tweaks. Or Starcraft is just Dune II with a few tweaks. Or Wing Commander is just Defender with a few tweaks."
No, it's like saying Doom 2 is Doom with a few tweaks, Starcraft is just Warcraft 2 with a few tweaks (the best analogy for Civ2/SMAC, IMHO), or (perhaps controversially) FIFA 99 is just World Cup '98 with a few tweaks.
John III
itdoesntfit posted 07-17-99 03:24 PM ET
You copied that from "WHAT's HIS NAME," one thing that you are wrong at is that Starcraft IS just a Warcraft with all new graphics, like this game. Doom2 is almost the same thing as Doom (with only new games; same strategy and bad guys, and a shotgun).
Krushala posted 09-06-99 09:03 PM ET
another one from our youngest poster
itdoesntfit posted 09-26-99 10:03 PM ET
"ARGGGGGHHHH" I'm going to have to check all the threads to make sure you haven't gotten your dirty hands on them .
Darkman posted 09-27-99 01:44 PM ET
I always thought CIV 2 was way too much like CIV. I never liked CIV 2 as much as I liked the original. The differences between SMAC and CIV 2 are WAY more than between CIV and CIV 2.
sandworm posted 09-27-99 02:29 PM ET
What's realistic about musketeer's sinking a 20th century battleship?
sandworm posted 09-27-99 02:33 PM ET
...and the maps are flat dammit! What's with the distortion of the polar regions?
When I want realistic I'll watch reruns of Dr. Who.
Where did that "Why SMAC sucks..." thread get to?
sir_penguin posted 09-27-99 07:47 PM ET
How old is Itdoesntfit? I thought John III would be one of the youngest, at 14 (see "Can someone help me with a personal problem" in the Non-SMAC related forum)
SP
itdoesntfit posted 09-27-99 09:26 PM ET
I'm ten, almost to be eleven in 1/2 month approx. Ligoc001 and Ligoc002 is 13 and was the youngest, too bad for that .
itdoesntfit posted 09-27-99 09:29 PM ET
I'm saying "is" because they're one person.
Biddles posted 09-27-99 11:19 PM ET
If you want a game thats different to CIV2 (because you claim that SMAC is too similar) go buy halflife. You are expecting far too much. Of course SMAC is going to be similar to CIV2, for god sakes it's the unofficial continuation of CIV2 (You know, how at the end the spaceship leaves for AC, sounds a lot like the start of SMAC).
-Biddles
BusterMan posted 09-28-99 03:52 PM ET
what do you do all day itdiesntfit? sit around in elementary school posting all day?
sir_penguin posted 09-28-99 07:39 PM ET
School doesn't take up the whole day, as you should know, BusterMan. I don't know about you southerners, but we up here get home 3:00-3:30 (although it should end at 4 and start at 9:30 instead), which leaves about 6.5 hours to post before *my* bed time ( ). And at the current level of activity of these forums, it doesn't really take more than .5 hours or so to go through the recent posts and force your opinions on others (I'm using myself as an example).
SP, off to do those 6.5 hours of homework...
itdoesntfit posted 09-29-99 05:11 AM ET
Here I am being picked on again .
School does not last the whole day, 6 hours in LA, I don't post all day, I used to because it was the summer. These are old threads that someone brought back up to haunt me with . I only post after 4:30 pm.
Zoetrope posted 10-01-99 03:39 AM ET
Six hours? Here in Victoria, primary school runs from 8:30 to 3:30, secondary school from 8:30 to, hmm, as best i recall, 4:30 or 5:00.
Victorians commence grade 1 at age five. So jus to catch up with us, you have to cram another year or two of study's worth into your twelve, _and_ spend another hour a day in class. Alternatively, spend many more hours in the public libraries, because we do.
Yes, i remember being very busy at school, and always occupied in study out of hours, though some of the brighter students managed to combine high academic grades with star status on the sporting fields. How i admired them!
sir_penguin posted 10-01-99 07:07 PM ET
Here it depends on where you go to school. In primary and intermediate (combined in some schools to elementary or grade, in the US) one usually gets in about 8:50, starts at 9:00 and goes until 3:00. In Jr. High, we had 8:47-3:12, and in Sr. High, we have 8:48-3:15. (I think that whoever designed our bell schedule, his dog should be taken out and shot)
Sir Penguin
sir_penguin posted 10-01-99 07:35 PM ET
Actually, today we got a break. We were sent home at 2:07 for no good reason. Apparently, the assembly, which they scheduled for last Monday and which was rescheduled for today, was cancelled at the last minute, so they just figured it should be a four-block day and we should all just get a break. I mean, it is Friday, after all .
SP
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Author	Topic: Who here is against Bruce Shelley, and his exact replica of Civilization2?
itdoesntfit	posted 07-13-99 09:26 PM ET I after throughly playing this game, hate it. I realize I payed $39 for Civilization 2. Do you think this game is worse than Civilization2? Yes: 1 No: 0
Krushala	posted 07-13-99 10:50 PM ET you know that argument has already been discussed a few weeks ago. Too bad they deleted the thread. Civ2 is better, but I don't play civ2 today, I play smac.
Krushala	posted 07-13-99 10:51 PM ET and who the **** is Bruce Shelley?
Zardoz	posted 07-13-99 11:16 PM ET What game are we talking about? Who is Bruce Shelley?
itdoesntfit	posted 07-13-99 11:58 PM ET It's the designer of Civilization
CelticWarLord	posted 07-14-99 07:56 AM ET Someone tell me if I've got this wrong - I thought it was: Sid Meier designed Civ I (and many other games) Bruce Shelley designed Civ II (with Sid Meier's consent) and also Age of Empires. Brian Reynolds designed SMAC (again with Sid Meier's consent) So if you do/don't like SMAC, Brian Reynolds is the main person responsible. Of course SMAC is really Civ II with a few tweaks, but I think some of them are good - Social Engineering (and the effects on your relations with other factions) is a lot more interesting than six rigid government types. So is being able to design your own units - I would happily have paid 100 shields for Armour that could ignore City Walls like a Howitzer in Civ II, and now I can have it. So I think all three Game Designers have done a great job. It's always possible to find fault somewhere, but I've had a lot of enjoyment out of their games. CelticWarLord
Dman37	posted 07-14-99 09:53 AM ET I agree with celtic warlord. This is a much more interesting game than civ2. Giving each of the factions a personality in the begining and having the great backstory were wonderful additions. It almost makes this a roleplaying strategy game. Civ2 was just a straight strategy game without the awankening planet, (a very cool adition) and many other tweaks. (see above post)
mindwormh8er	posted 07-14-99 03:33 PM ET Why don't you guys just choose a game and play it?
Dowdc	posted 07-14-99 04:16 PM ET I am getting really frustrated with this attitude: "SMAC is really just CIV II with a few tweaks." That's like saying Quake is just Wolfenstein 3D with a few tweaks. Or Starcraft is just Dune II with a few tweaks. Or Wing Commander is just Defender with a few tweaks. What's wrong with you that you can't recognize how incredible this game really is? Where's the awe? Where's the devotion? This is quite possibly the best designed game of all time, and you're talking about it like it's just something else that came out this year. CIV II can't hold a candle to SMAC. There's no reason to play CIV II again, ever. Maybe I could understand playing CIV I (which I always thought was better than II), but CIV II, why? What does it have to offer over SMAC?
itdoesntfit	posted 07-14-99 04:16 PM ET I think all but Civ2 sucks. I also like Gettysburg, Railroad Tycoon2, and any other game created by Sid Meier. Who thinks the game would be better if this game was designed by Meier? 1 for yes, -1 for no, and the scores: example 1-1+1=1 1
itdoesntfit	posted 07-14-99 04:30 PM ET It has more strategy involved. Alpha Centauri is too easy. You don't need Diplomacy or science so badly. And plus to that, Civ2 is more realistic. That is probably I like Railroad Tycoon2 and Gettysburg so much and hate starcraft and warcraft 1 and 2.
itdoesntfit	posted 07-14-99 04:32 PM ET I made a mistake. It's Brian Reynolds (Bruce Shelly made CivI.
evil_conquerer	posted 07-15-99 10:06 AM ET "Civ2 is more realistic" -- Give me a break. Do you want SMAC to have phalanxes and muskies? Why not just ride a chariot to Alpha Centauri? It seems unrealistic because it's set in the future! Of course they have fusion lasers instead of muskets! As a matter of fact, SMAC employs very "hard" science fiction -- it doesn't just invent futuristic devices and "scientific" names for them. Almost all of the techs/weapons/armor are under development now or have been thought up by someone else, or even have been theorizes and shown to work in principle. According to Khan Singh's SMAC Dictionary, SMAC would be an 8 out of 10 on the "hardness" scale, with 1 being "Battlestar Galactica" and 10 being some book I've never heard of (has anybody seen it? Is it worth reading?).
itdoesntfit	posted 07-15-99 10:59 AM ET But the unit design is way too pathetic. Most of the units here have already been invented.
itdoesntfit	posted 07-15-99 11:46 AM ET And the story plot is pathetic. "The space ship breaks into 7 factions" Come on, be real, isn't this game just like Civ2, except this game doesn't have as many features.
Timexwatch	posted 07-15-99 01:07 PM ET The seven factions thing is just a plot device. And the unit design isn't pathetic if you know what you are doing or if you tweak alpha.txt.....
Jythexinvok	posted 07-16-99 12:35 AM ET evil_conquerer: try books by Larry Niven. He's pretty hight on the hard-sf scale. His Known Space series is particuarly good.. books contained include everything from about 20 years from now up till a few thousand years away. It's safe to start anywhere in the series.. though you should be warned he does like to show off all the wierd bits of knowledge he has, so often plots revolve around the tech rather then the other way around.. think of it as the anti-startrek.
itdoesntfit	posted 07-16-99 12:54 AM ET How do you tweak the unit design?
1001100110001	posted 07-17-99 02:28 PM ET press U, then go with the tour.
JohnIII	posted 07-17-99 03:05 PM ET "That's like saying Quake is just Wolfenstein 3D with a few tweaks. Or Starcraft is just Dune II with a few tweaks. Or Wing Commander is just Defender with a few tweaks." No, it's like saying Doom 2 is Doom with a few tweaks, Starcraft is just Warcraft 2 with a few tweaks (the best analogy for Civ2/SMAC, IMHO), or (perhaps controversially) FIFA 99 is just World Cup '98 with a few tweaks. John III
itdoesntfit	posted 07-17-99 03:24 PM ET You copied that from "WHAT's HIS NAME," one thing that you are wrong at is that Starcraft IS just a Warcraft with all new graphics, like this game. Doom2 is almost the same thing as Doom (with only new games; same strategy and bad guys, and a shotgun).
Krushala	posted 09-06-99 09:03 PM ET another one from our youngest poster
itdoesntfit	posted 09-26-99 10:03 PM ET "ARGGGGGHHHH" I'm going to have to check all the threads to make sure you haven't gotten your dirty hands on them .
Darkman	posted 09-27-99 01:44 PM ET I always thought CIV 2 was way too much like CIV. I never liked CIV 2 as much as I liked the original. The differences between SMAC and CIV 2 are WAY more than between CIV and CIV 2.
sandworm	posted 09-27-99 02:29 PM ET What's realistic about musketeer's sinking a 20th century battleship?
sandworm	posted 09-27-99 02:33 PM ET ...and the maps are flat dammit! What's with the distortion of the polar regions? When I want realistic I'll watch reruns of Dr. Who. Where did that "Why SMAC sucks..." thread get to?
sir_penguin	posted 09-27-99 07:47 PM ET How old is Itdoesntfit? I thought John III would be one of the youngest, at 14 (see "Can someone help me with a personal problem" in the Non-SMAC related forum) SP
itdoesntfit	posted 09-27-99 09:26 PM ET I'm ten, almost to be eleven in 1/2 month approx. Ligoc001 and Ligoc002 is 13 and was the youngest, too bad for that .
itdoesntfit	posted 09-27-99 09:29 PM ET I'm saying "is" because they're one person.
Biddles	posted 09-27-99 11:19 PM ET If you want a game thats different to CIV2 (because you claim that SMAC is too similar) go buy halflife. You are expecting far too much. Of course SMAC is going to be similar to CIV2, for god sakes it's the unofficial continuation of CIV2 (You know, how at the end the spaceship leaves for AC, sounds a lot like the start of SMAC). -Biddles
BusterMan	posted 09-28-99 03:52 PM ET what do you do all day itdiesntfit? sit around in elementary school posting all day?
sir_penguin	posted 09-28-99 07:39 PM ET School doesn't take up the whole day, as you should know, BusterMan. I don't know about you southerners, but we up here get home 3:00-3:30 (although it should end at 4 and start at 9:30 instead), which leaves about 6.5 hours to post before my bed time ( ). And at the current level of activity of these forums, it doesn't really take more than .5 hours or so to go through the recent posts and force your opinions on others (I'm using myself as an example). SP, off to do those 6.5 hours of homework...
itdoesntfit	posted 09-29-99 05:11 AM ET Here I am being picked on again . School does not last the whole day, 6 hours in LA, I don't post all day, I used to because it was the summer. These are old threads that someone brought back up to haunt me with . I only post after 4:30 pm.
Zoetrope	posted 10-01-99 03:39 AM ET Six hours? Here in Victoria, primary school runs from 8:30 to 3:30, secondary school from 8:30 to, hmm, as best i recall, 4:30 or 5:00. Victorians commence grade 1 at age five. So jus to catch up with us, you have to cram another year or two of study's worth into your twelve, _and_ spend another hour a day in class. Alternatively, spend many more hours in the public libraries, because we do. Yes, i remember being very busy at school, and always occupied in study out of hours, though some of the brighter students managed to combine high academic grades with star status on the sporting fields. How i admired them!
sir_penguin	posted 10-01-99 07:07 PM ET Here it depends on where you go to school. In primary and intermediate (combined in some schools to elementary or grade, in the US) one usually gets in about 8:50, starts at 9:00 and goes until 3:00. In Jr. High, we had 8:47-3:12, and in Sr. High, we have 8:48-3:15. (I think that whoever designed our bell schedule, his dog should be taken out and shot) Sir Penguin
sir_penguin	posted 10-01-99 07:35 PM ET Actually, today we got a break. We were sent home at 2:07 for no good reason. Apparently, the assembly, which they scheduled for last Monday and which was rescheduled for today, was cancelled at the last minute, so they just figured it should be a four-block day and we should all just get a break. I mean, it is Friday, after all . SP