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Author Topic:   Submarines

fsjjs1 posted 07-13-99 03:10 PM ET
I can't figure out how to build subs, (or the equivelant). The games say you need deep pressure Hulls or something, and I go t the tech it came with, but I haven't found the unit, and don't see a sub chasis. Has anyone built them? I'm trying to defeat a superior Hive Navy, and think a fwe sneak attacks might do the trick.
Horgawitz posted 07-13-99 04:46 PM ET
Its a special ability like "clean reactor" or "trance"
Singularity posted 07-13-99 04:58 PM ET
Well, you got your answer, now here's my opinion on what you are doing. Don't build subs, they sound great, but isle of the deep is much better. I rarely use regular units anymore, just mind worms. You can get so many great units early in the game with the Gaians that it's not worth the production time. Just capture them. Now most of my games are down to 3 factions in mid-game because no one can withstand the worms.
Darkstar posted 07-14-99 12:06 AM ET
Subs are worthless in a single player game. The A-not-I knows where your units are, regardless of cloaking, fungus, Line Of Sight, or Sub Hull. So use that design thought on something worthwhile like Clean...
Now, in Multiplayer, they kick butt... unless one of your opponents automates some of his military. The automated units know where you are, and act accordingly...
-Darkstar
mindwormh8er posted 07-14-99 03:38 PM ET
Mind Worms suck!
aceplayer posted 07-14-99 04:17 PM ET
the AI ignores cloaking ???
Nell_Smith posted 07-14-99 04:35 PM ET
ace:
It certainly does... and it *especially* ignores the "units can hide in fungus" thing, and homes right in on any units in fungus, even though you might have put them there 50 years ago and there's no way the AI could have spotted them moving. Probes are especially vulnerable to this.
The AI also seems to have an amazing capacity to see any kind of naval unit, no matter if it is way out of any kind of visual or sensor range, and to be able to drop missiles on ships with unerring (and annoying) regularity.
Nell
walruskkkch posted 07-14-99 04:42 PM ET
AI Cheating! That's why I gave up playing Hearts on the computer, No matter how you played, it always knew what cards you had. Strangely enough though, it was easier to "shoot the moon". Is this a feature of SMAC or a bug?
Darkstar posted 07-14-99 05:48 PM ET
It was by design of Brian Reynolds and his team.
It's the same as in Civ2, for that matter.
It's easier, and memory/storage efficent, to just look into the global map of the game (world) and see where all the units are, and therefore use that as your Intel in the Opponent Engine, rather than a seperate map per Opponent player. It also keeps the Opponent Engine controlled factions a couple of jumps ahead in the only area they could figure out how to implement easily and in the time and budget given for the game development. The fact that the computer doesn't wipe you out pratically instantly with its Omninesience and non-Human advantages (Research at 1/10th the Rate, 1/4 the drone problems, yadda yadda yadda) is due to the fact that the Opponent Engine still hasn't caught up with Strategic Options available, and that once it decides WHAT to do, it doesn't revise that until something upsets that unit/city or its done, and needs a new task.
Well, that and computers just aren't AI...
-Darkstar
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Author	Topic: Submarines
fsjjs1	posted 07-13-99 03:10 PM ET I can't figure out how to build subs, (or the equivelant). The games say you need deep pressure Hulls or something, and I go t the tech it came with, but I haven't found the unit, and don't see a sub chasis. Has anyone built them? I'm trying to defeat a superior Hive Navy, and think a fwe sneak attacks might do the trick.
Horgawitz	posted 07-13-99 04:46 PM ET Its a special ability like "clean reactor" or "trance"
Singularity	posted 07-13-99 04:58 PM ET Well, you got your answer, now here's my opinion on what you are doing. Don't build subs, they sound great, but isle of the deep is much better. I rarely use regular units anymore, just mind worms. You can get so many great units early in the game with the Gaians that it's not worth the production time. Just capture them. Now most of my games are down to 3 factions in mid-game because no one can withstand the worms.
Darkstar	posted 07-14-99 12:06 AM ET Subs are worthless in a single player game. The A-not-I knows where your units are, regardless of cloaking, fungus, Line Of Sight, or Sub Hull. So use that design thought on something worthwhile like Clean... Now, in Multiplayer, they kick butt... unless one of your opponents automates some of his military. The automated units know where you are, and act accordingly... -Darkstar
mindwormh8er	posted 07-14-99 03:38 PM ET Mind Worms suck!
aceplayer	posted 07-14-99 04:17 PM ET the AI ignores cloaking ???
Nell_Smith	posted 07-14-99 04:35 PM ET ace: It certainly does... and it especially ignores the "units can hide in fungus" thing, and homes right in on any units in fungus, even though you might have put them there 50 years ago and there's no way the AI could have spotted them moving. Probes are especially vulnerable to this. The AI also seems to have an amazing capacity to see any kind of naval unit, no matter if it is way out of any kind of visual or sensor range, and to be able to drop missiles on ships with unerring (and annoying) regularity. Nell
walruskkkch	posted 07-14-99 04:42 PM ET AI Cheating! That's why I gave up playing Hearts on the computer, No matter how you played, it always knew what cards you had. Strangely enough though, it was easier to "shoot the moon". Is this a feature of SMAC or a bug?
Darkstar	posted 07-14-99 05:48 PM ET It was by design of Brian Reynolds and his team. It's the same as in Civ2, for that matter. It's easier, and memory/storage efficent, to just look into the global map of the game (world) and see where all the units are, and therefore use that as your Intel in the Opponent Engine, rather than a seperate map per Opponent player. It also keeps the Opponent Engine controlled factions a couple of jumps ahead in the only area they could figure out how to implement easily and in the time and budget given for the game development. The fact that the computer doesn't wipe you out pratically instantly with its Omninesience and non-Human advantages (Research at 1/10th the Rate, 1/4 the drone problems, yadda yadda yadda) is due to the fact that the Opponent Engine still hasn't caught up with Strategic Options available, and that once it decides WHAT to do, it doesn't revise that until something upsets that unit/city or its done, and needs a new task. Well, that and computers just aren't AI... -Darkstar