Alpha Centauri Forums
The Game
The truth about JKM and Trippin Daily
|
|
Alpha Centauri Forums
The Game
The truth about JKM and Trippin Daily
|
| Author | Topic: The truth about JKM and Trippin Daily |
| MichaeltheGreat |
posted 07-03-99 01:43 PM ET  
Here is the email from JKM to Trippin: Hi Trippin'. Unfortunately I've had to revoke you ability to post on Does anybody else see a little sarcasm and picque on JKM's part?? And the not so veiled reference to Trippin's criticisms of SMAC? Here is Tripp's response: Jeff, Jason I think JKM needs to rethink things, and he and Tripp should discuss it privately, and Trippin be reinstated. Maybe if more people see the truth and form their opinions based on that, it will elicit a response from JKM. Tripp - sorry if I jumped the gun, but everyone I've privately shared your email with sees it the same way as I do, so if I jumped the gun, write it off to my being a fellow hot-head southerner. I don't think the truth should sink to the bottom of the swamp. PS: JKM - I know it's a holiday weekend and all, so enjoy it, but if you don't respond to trippin, or work something out by the end of the week, ban me too - OK? I'm every bit as critical of the poor programming and QA efforts in SMAC, and I say that as a long time professional programmer. I've use naughty words, I've flamed people, and I've criticized SMAC, so I fit the same criteria as trippin. I hereby register a complaint about myself - I've been offended by MichaeltheGreat's posts. |
| JohnIII |
posted 07-03-99 01:50 PM ET
But have many people COMPLAINED about Wank? That seemed to be Jeffrey's salient point, after all. John III |
| MichaeltheGreat |
posted 07-03-99 01:59 PM ET
John - we don't KNOW anybody's complained about trippin, either - just a statement by JKM - I think the last line of his mail to trippin is more telling, and I do know that the Madonna look-alike bj pic in non-SMAC was up for several weeks AFTER someone complained - and as far as I know, Xenoman/MiKaeLe was not banned at that time, since I saw later posts under his Xenoman handle, and his MiKaeLe handle referred to the same email address as Xenoman, at least it did the last time I looked. Even if there was a complaint - the handling of the known complaint about a porn pic was far more slack than the alleged complaint about trippin. If the criteria for getting banned is the policy agreement you make when you register, then there should be no complaint required - a violation is a violation. If the criteria is whether you offend someone enough to make them complain, that should be spelled out. When the individual in charge of QA singles out and treats inconsistenly a vocal critic of the game design and QA, that in itself stinks, unless that individual is also the known moderator of the forum, and applies some degree of consistency. |
| JohnIII |
posted 07-03-99 02:03 PM ET
Well then, I hereby post this message to JKM: Post the 'complaints' on this forum for all to see. In this way we can truly ascertain what were the reasons, and THEN we will decide. John III |
| Darkstar |
posted 07-03-99 02:08 PM ET
MtG, the kicker, in your logic, is that Trip hadn't been a critic of SMAC most of the time he was here. It's that we decided in the last WEEK or three, and started ranting on how Firaxis ripped the world but putting a SF/Alien graphic face on Civ2. Yadda yadda yadda... Don't forget you punch line. Trip hadn't changed... except for the side he was on about whether or not SMAC was a Civ2 clone. Although in flaming and ranting, he took what I would consider personal shots at a few people in Firaxis's development... like JKM. Heck, I'm still waiting on your banning. -Darkstar |
| Darkstar |
posted 07-03-99 02:11 PM ET
One last thing... he can't or SHOULDN'T post the originator... in case Trip goes postal on the bloke or gal. Sorry, but that's curtisy to the complainer. If the complainer is willing to face up to Trip, they'd do it on the Boards. They didn't. Maybe they don't have the balls for it... maybe they aren't even REGISTERED. But this is a public board, not a court of law in Maryland. While it would be nice for Trip to know his accuser, it wouldn't do anything but let a WHOLE lot of people harass the complaintant. -Darkstar |
| Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS |
posted 07-03-99 02:17 PM ET
To be fair, that wasn't his response to my original mail, this was (asterixes provided by me): Subject: Re: SMAC Forum So Jeff, since I got booted for profanity, is it ok, to use **** or !@#!@ Trippin Daily P.S. What is really taking patch four so long... will there actually be jkm firaxis games |
| Darkstar |
posted 07-03-99 02:22 PM ET
Yep. That was Trip's "appeal". He's flamer was still burning, if only using the full humor setting and in your face barrels. I hadn't noticed the question about patch 4 at the bottom, first time around. -Darkstar |
| Darkstar |
posted 07-03-99 02:49 PM ET
And looking at my copy that Trip sent me Jeff, you didn't change a letter. The funny character business is what TRIP put in to you. Or am I just going blind? -Darkstar |
| MichaeltheGreat |
posted 07-03-99 02:49 PM ET
Thanks for the clarification and response, Jeff I don't have any personal animosity towards you or any Firaxians, just for the record, but I read Trippin's mail to you as questioning what the "acceptable standards" are - I don't see an attack on you. There is a lot of profanity and obscenity among the thousands of posts here, and if Trippin's point is not expressed with the polish of a trial lawyer, it is still a good one - why is he the one individual singled out for conduct which dozens of us have engaged in? I think he should chill out, or post less when he's in pain or whatever, but I think you should also rethink the ban or apply it consistently. I find it hard to justify when there was a public complaint about the bj pic in non-SMAC, and that poster was apparently not banned for some time, if at all, and the pic was up for weeks after it was publicly complained about. It was finally killed off by DanS playing HTML games, not by EA, Origin or Firaxis. My problem is with the gross inconsistency, that's all. I'm glad you posted the original email from trippin, and I agree with Darkstar that any complainers should not be identified, but posting copies of the complaint(s) would also help clear the air. |
| Darkstar |
posted 07-03-99 02:50 PM ET
Sorry... see it know. Its the S-H-*-* that you changed. Shrug. Hey, no one is perfect. -Darkstar |
| MichaeltheGreat |
posted 07-03-99 02:54 PM ET
I also see that Tripp's "appeal" continued his criticism of the game implementation, so that speaks to my original point about the objectivity of the ban. If we are only welcome to post pro-SMAC and pro-Firaxis topics here, please let us know. He didn't bow and scrape and apologize, but in most customer oriented businesses, the customer doesn't have to. |
| Darkstar |
posted 07-03-99 03:01 PM ET
Oh please, Mike. He smarted off. So JKM so no reason to reinstate him. Would you have? Now, if they had entered into a small dialog about the matter, it would have been a much more productive. But Trip had to get in a answering shots while making answering JKM. True, in JKM's crack about not missing SMAC since it's just Civ2, he was baiting Trip. But Trip DIDN'T defend his position. He just went "But they did it!" Never a good legal defense. Not that I condone any of it. I think the public view makes JKM look way over the line. But they did seem to be baiting each other in their exchange, however nicely put. -Darkstar |
| MichaeltheGreat |
posted 07-03-99 03:21 PM ET
Darkstar - that's my point exactly. When you have the power, as a sysop, moderator, whatever, and you're getting hot and the other guy is getting hot - you can take a step back, and say "Look - I won't ban you, yet, but chill out and don't post anything similar for a day or two, and lets both back off and chill out and talk about it when we've cooled down." The truth is that on both sides, the cybertestosterone carburetor was running way too rich. If he smarted off to me, I might get pissed, but I'd also shake my head and laugh a little at how true to character he was - I would try to see the point he was making, which was about consistency and selective reinforcement, and try to call a truce. If JKM had said to trippin "let's both chill out and rethink this when we've cooled down" and trippin had responded with "**** you, you ****ing blah blah whatever, I'm going to be a jerk and you can't stop me!!! :P~~~" - then I'd say that JKM was acting reasonably, and trippin wasn't. The party who has the power, has the responsibility to wield that power in a fair and reasonable manner. Yes - I WOULD have reinstated him, for the time being, if we could have come to some agreement to have a truce over the weekend - no more similar posts or attacks, and then we discuss it privately later. Prior to this issue, I have never had any contact with Trippin, so I'm not his life long buddy sticking up for him - I've found his posts to be anything from juvenile and stupid, to hilarious, to well reasoned, but we have never communicated directly on posts or by email before this, so I think I'm fairly objective. If someone wants to test me - charbroil me on the games forum at ACOL - I'm the moderator there, so I have the power to close threads or edit posts made about me or anything else. I think JKM was more in the wrong than Trippin, but both of them were to some extent, and a good part of it is attributable to both losing their tempers. |
| MichaeltheGreat |
posted 07-03-99 03:22 PM ET
selective reinforcement should be selective enforcement - duh, but hey the edit function works over at ACOL. |
| evil_conquerer |
posted 07-03-99 04:08 PM ET
MtG: Absolutely right. Both trip and JKM were in the wrong. However, as a moderator, JKM has to hold himself to a higher standard than that. When tempers are running high, it's a moderator's job to step back and let everything cool for a day or two, to give both parties a chance to reconcile the thing over e-mail. What JKM should've done was ban JKM for 2 days as a warning, and send him an e-mail asking him to cut the profanity. It can contain the threat of banning him permanently, but the line about trip hating SMAC was completely out of place for a moderator. In the word "Moderator" is "moderate", meaning that it's his job to cool things down and moderate the debate. JKM failed at that, and that is what caused the uproar. So what can JKM do now? If he reinstates trip's account, he loses face by bowing to pressure in the forum. If he keeps the ban, he has to face a (hopefully, IMHO) never-ending uproar over the banning. So he seems to be stuck, unless he can come up with a better way. Maybe this is a lesson to both of them; to trip, it shows that disobeying the forum rules doesn't pay off. To JKM, it shows that being a moderator carries a lot of responsibilities, and misusing this power can only lead to ruin. |
| MichaeltheGreat |
posted 07-03-99 04:41 PM ET
I already posted a reply to Jeff's topic that I'd said what I have to say, but this is a little new direction. There is always room for compromise, and I don't see Jeff losing face or having to lose face - it should be possible for him and tripp to both say "hey, we lost our cool" and reach a compromise agreement that Trippin is reinstated, but tries to chill out. It shouldn't be a permanent or polarizing issue, and we shouldn't treat it as one. I can understand Jeff getting upset with tripp - and I can really understand him getting upset with some of my comments So if calmer heads prevail, let's just walk away from it, and not say somebody won or somebody lost. We all lose something if there's permanent animosity, or we all gain something if the situation is resolved and moved past and dropped. |
| JAMstillAM |
posted 07-03-99 06:33 PM ET
I agree. I don't think that Jeff will be losing face, if a compromise is worked out. And, I for one look forward to the day that we can all get back to our irreverent (and irrelevant) existences in the SMAC forum universe.  JAMiAM |
| MiKaeLe |
posted 07-03-99 07:50 PM ET
Hey, i just bumped into this topic and, hell, this is interesting, and what's most important, it concerns me. MtG, i am truly dissapointed at you pointing me as a bad example I completely agree with JAM. Jeff won't loose his face by admiting he was wrong. He'll just have to admit it, and this comes hard on some people, doesn't it?(hope he doesn't ban me now And MtG, let's get things straight, one of the things you're saying is that Jeff banned trip 'couse he found some of his post offensive to both him and Firaxis? Well, if this is the case, maybe the best solution would have been if Jeff replied to those critics directed directly(or indirectly) to him and his company by posting here at the forums? And if trippin(don't know the fella, and have never had a discussion with him) was banned becouse of his excessive language i would have to agree with Jeff, since i had a fruitfull conversation with DanS about putting things like this on the forums [b]MiKaeLe[/b] |
| Valtyr |
posted 07-03-99 11:33 PM ET
What? Somebody got banned because another complained about his "profanity"? Which prissy thin-skinned puritan was it? Banning somebody for using everyday words like 'f*ck' and 'sh*t' is pathetic and pitiful. I thought (not really) that the age of Victorianism was over. And the hypocracy! People like k_shane and his fellow homophobiacs can go on telling gays to kill themselves without sanctions just as long as they don't use the words 'f*ck' and 'sh*it'. I cannot believe this  .Valtyr |
| Freddz |
posted 07-04-99 07:25 AM ET
BUMP! |
| Valtyr |
posted 07-04-99 09:46 AM ET
Argh! Hypocrisy, not hypocracy! This vacation is making me lazy. |
| HelloKitty |
posted 07-04-99 09:59 AM ET
Valtyr thank you. People are not allowed to use profanities such as $hit but who cares ahbout gay bashing and porno posts. I understand that next week is Klan week wher3e the person with the most black and jew jokes wins an advanced copy of patch 4. I personally am offended by the gay bashing. I came out of lurking to attack someone just for that. Profanity shouldn't be as big of a concern. It's the spread of hate that I fear. Kitty |
| Bossman |
posted 07-04-99 10:01 AM ET
Kitty, did you know that a mans greatest sexual desire is to be in bed with two lesbos? |
| MichaeltheGreat |
posted 07-04-99 12:31 PM ET
Kitty - Bossman said it, I didn't.  Please aim carefully. Also, I wasn't bashing the other poster - just his former tag line, although I (and he) did get out of line. If it got you to be an active poster here, we've all had more fun as a result of your showing up. Thanks for joining in. |
| HelloKitty |
posted 07-04-99 01:47 PM ET
Mike don't worry I have no beef with you. Bossman how can I be angry with you for wanting to do something I have enjoyed on many occasions. Three's company, four an orgy. Kitty |
| LoD |
posted 07-17-99 07:29 AM ET
OK, I have a question: What's the title (and better yet, the HTML address) of the thread with the mentioned flame war? I failed to find it. Maybe it's been ereased? LoD |
| OldWarrior_42 |
posted 07-17-99 07:39 AM ET
LoD....the thread you are looking for was deleted right when all that sh.t went down. Sorry ,you will not be able to read it. |
| LoD |
posted 07-17-99 09:13 AM ET
Thanks OldWarrior! Damn, it seems I've missed all the fun .LoD |
| itdoesntfit |
posted 07-17-99 03:32 PM ET
Does this mean that trippin loses all his sites? |
| Darkstar |
posted 07-18-99 05:39 AM ET
It means that Trip has lost his Handle here. And all the other ones he identified as belonging to him. He can always sign on again, using a NEW email/screenname since he is on AOL, therefore, Firaxis does have a difficult time keeping him out. They can complain to AOL, if they know the right address about him, but AOL tends to care as little about people who are just being boistrous on a forum as an elephant cares about a gnat. Aside from that, they can keep locking out the new Trippin Daily IDs. That's about it. Other sites that are not affiliated with Firaxis won't care, so that is the end of their banning/black-listing him. -Darkstar |
| Dman37 |
posted 07-22-99 02:23 PM ET
I was't around when all this happened, so I really don't know anything. I agree that he should have been banned though for using profanity. Hey, for all we know young kids might use this forum. (doubt it but you don't know.) We do need to watch out for things like that more in our society, where such things are becoming all to prevelent. That said, I do have a problem with the gay bashing and other things that go on in our society as well. We need to watch out for them all, not just a few. |
| Darkstar |
posted 07-22-99 03:13 PM ET
DMan37... what kind of language do you hear at the mall? Convenience store? Movies? I admit profanity isn't classy, but its a fact of speech patterns in many local State cultures, just like other places in the world. I mean, "youse ever takes a ****in drive through New York ****in City? Ors ****ing Bean town? That's Bosstown for those ****in morons whats aint well ****in travelled or ****in red" Trust me. I am going quite light on it in the above idiom. Its just to ingrained in some people... so if you can say it as protected speech, you can type it as protected speech. As stated above, MANY people use profanity. Some quite heavily. They weren't banned for it. So, there are other factors at play. What those are, and what people thought they were, is what got the board so upset. In general, I don't mind banning as a punishment or rebuke, as long as its consistantly enforced. -Darkstar |
| Submachinegun |
posted 07-30-99 06:14 AM ET
I go away for a month, when I get back, Trippin is banned for, what, excessive use of "foul language"? JKM doesnt know ****. Do anyone remember Alphamans request for nude pics? Evk's "Stick it in my cat"? Kapitans thread killing? I could go on forever. And I havent seen half of whats in this forum. Not even a tenth. "Going down on a vacuum cleaner? Organ Morgan?" And I hear (read) that itdoesntfit is very active these days. (the DumbAss of the year thread). This was a vendetta from JKM to Trippin. Trip isnt half as bad as some of the people here. WARNING: EXCESSIVE, FOUL NORWEGIAN LANGUAGE BELOW! PLEASE DO NOT READ THIS IF IT OFFENDS YOU, OR YOU ARE UNDER 18 YEARS OLD! (link to www.disney.com here) Helvete, faen, hestkuk, homoj�deneger svart som natta, pikktryne, fandens oldemor, r�vsleiker, soper, mislykka abort, mor di e en astronaut og far din kj�re trikk, s� stygg at du kler hudkreft, drep deg selv og spar noen andre for bryet. If somebody, despite my warning, read (and was offended by) any of the above, feel free to send a formal complaint to Firaxis, and have my furry norwegian butt kicked out of the forums, until I get a new email adress. On the more serious note, I have never communicated with Trippin by any means, But I have seen enough to know that he commands a lot of respect and "love" from many of the regulars here, including myself. Usually a man of few words, I write this to say that, if the above things are enough to revoke my membership... Bite me! Submachinegun (feeling hatred and anger toward the jackasses moderating this forum, who cant get their head out of their butts long enough to see whats really going on in these forums) |
To close this thread, click here (moderator or admin only).  |
Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.18
© Madrona Park, Inc., 1998.
Heavy criticism, profanity, complaints, discussions about the lack of professional knowledge of certain crafters of certain things... Maybe you will have to push the final button, and post a killing discertation on how SMAC is really a ripped off Empire or something.