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Author Topic:   SMAC II ideas

AcidJazz posted 03-25-99 04:00 PM ET
I, like many of you am a fan of strategy and diplomacy aspects of the game and tend to Build more than Conquer. My suggestion for a future version of SMAC would be to make the diplomacy much more advanced. Sure there are many more options now then there were in Civ II but they are still very general. I would also like to see AI be more advanced in terms of having reasons to war. Right now the AI goes to war because it is the personality of the faction or you screw them. I think it would be cool to have more advanced reasons. For example, Iraq invaded Kuwait for oil, Yugoslavia is having a civil war over religious differences. There is a reason to fight, in the game, the factions just plain fight. I am also a big fan of the new planet but would also like to see a planet with extremely varied terrain. Then when the factions land they will have to exploit the land differently, utilize different units and potentially have reason to fight if say, your faction begins on a desolate island. On the other hand if your faction begins in a rainy, hilly area you would probably be content to stay home all game. Just a few ideas. Thanks.
ChairmanLee posted 03-25-99 04:04 PM ET
A true 3d world would be good.
DerekM posted 03-25-99 04:57 PM ET
I think that Sid and Brian should do a game where you build a civilization of train-riding nomads who go around pirating other trains. You could win by building the ascent to TRAINscendence. Heh.
eNo posted 03-25-99 05:07 PM ET
AcidJazz - SMAC II is a long way off! I remeber getting CIV II more than two years ago so I guess SMAC II will be at least two years into the future. Also this thread has already had many incarnations but I still post my suggestions.
A submersable chassis, not a boat with a special ability.
More attention to water: sea sensors, ocean currents, a sea version of the soil enricher, fresh water vs. salt water, etc.
True underground bases, not the pseudo-underground bases that the Hive gets.
Bases that grow physically with expanding radii, etc.
Mobile wonders/secret projects
Spherical map perhaps with tectonics and better weather modelling?
Slopes of different gradients
Thue posted 03-25-99 06:52 PM ET
Did any of you play x-com III? I really liked the way the combat were modelled there. It was real-time, but you could set the speed to anything from pause to very fast. You could pause the game, give orders, start it again a lean back. In my oppinion it took some of the best qualities out of turnbased and real-time games.
I think it would work well for a civ-like game, allthougth you would have to introduce more automatisation(not a bad thing)
CoolWords posted 03-25-99 08:12 PM ET
As I've played SMAC, I've made notes of things I'd like to see improved, and tried to differentiate between what could be done now, via an "enhancement" patch, and what would require significant re-engineering (i.e. SMAC II). My SMAC II list:
As previously mentioned, a spherical, 3D world. Polar combat (including the atrocity of melting the caps without council approval), time zones (movement around the world, faction by faction, on a longitudinal basis), and a territory system not dependent on squares or other polygons.
Things that haven't yet been mentioned: how about mobile citizens? Sure, the atmosphere is unbreathable... but once mag tubes are built, there's no need for citizens to stay in one place. Excessive rioting or hunger could lower a city's population (but the talents will be the ones most likely to leave). For that matter, there should be a way to transport citizens away from bases that you don't want to keep; that would allow the bases to be deconstructed without committing an atrocity. And then there's the additional diplomatic angle of immigration and emigration......
Oceanic sensor buoys! Once a sea base is established, allow the construction of mag tubes to the mainland.
Even during periods of sunspot activity, limited communication should still be possible. Create a special "envoy" unit, with no armor, no weaponry, and a movement bonus; when this unit enters another faction's headquarters city, communications with that leader commence. (Hey, even before Morse and Marconi, nations were able to communicate.) Attacking an envoy is an atrocity.
Here's another vote for a better combat system.
Finally, but most importantly.... diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy. There's no such thing as too much of it.
evil_conquerer posted 03-25-99 08:42 PM ET
How about a NATO-type bloc slightly different from the Planetary Council? The council was just for simple votes and contained all council members. On the other hand, there could be one that doesn't include everybody, for example:
1: Forming a bloc would be one of the votes in the planetary council. People could vote "join" or "abstain". You would need at least three countries to form a blockade.
2: To join, each faction would have to donate a certain amount of military units (ex. 10 planes, 4 chaos infantry, etc.). These units would have grey shields and could only be controlled by a "neutral" AI. The factions in the bloc would have to vote on airstrikes or other attacks on a particular faction for a certain reason. The interface for votes in your bloc would look a lot like the interface for the council, except that the choices would be different. When a majority votes for airstrikes, they select a nation and a city (and have to have a good reason such as atrocities) and the AI will bomb them. This keeps people from using the bloc's planes for other purposes.
3: The bloc could also vote on different things, such as: Economic sanctions, declaration of war, airstrikes, shore bombardments, and transfer of bloc troops to a faction. All members would have equal votes, except for the president who would have either two votes or veto power (I'm not sure yet).
evil_conquerer posted 03-25-99 08:46 PM ET
Also, the spherical map would not work because it would involve irregular grid shapes. It would be impossible to move with the numpad if half of the squares were triangles (or worse, decahedrons which can also be used)!
Masakari posted 03-26-99 12:14 AM ET
evil_conqueror, I really like the idea of a bloc, but you didn't address the issue of where the AI controlled bloc forces would be stationed.
Your idea really caught my attention. Firaxis, please consider it.
Shining1 posted 03-26-99 12:20 AM ET
See Alternative Combat System for more ideas.
Zoetrope posted 03-26-99 03:30 AM ET
A spherical map will work: numpads belong in text editors and ASCII RPGs, not in future strategy games.
Speaking of diplomacy, a strong faction doesn't care about trade sanctions, so maybe part of the score should reflect reputation? Competitive players care about score.
evil_conquerer posted 03-27-99 03:37 PM ET
A lot of players use the numpad for movement (I find the mouse to just be too unwieldy)
Anyhow...
That's a good point about where the forces would be stationed. Maybe the founder is required to make an airbase somewhere, but then the question of where the base is located arises (or maybe that's one of the perks of being a bloc leader). Or they could be held in the founder's capital.
eNo posted 03-27-99 03:52 PM ET
Alliances with more than one person so that there are planetary wars with two highly opposed sides.
xgalaxy posted 03-31-99 12:04 AM ET
TITLE:
"SMAC II: THE RETURN TO EARTH"
Grug posted 03-31-99 01:10 AM ET
Just to add my ideas to this discussion
1) New Planets: We could make satellites and asteroid mines, but I would like to actually have space units as well eg Space Bombers and space coloneis.
2) Integrate bases with the main maps, like have them expand physically. I would like to have a base as a place in the terrain that you zoom into and build facilites such as roads, houses, factories, etc. Think of them as the kind of bases you make in RTS games.
3) This carries on from the second point, but when I am pounding a city with artillery and their are no more defenders, a random facility should be destroyed.
That's all from me
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Author	Topic: SMAC II ideas
AcidJazz	posted 03-25-99 04:00 PM ET I, like many of you am a fan of strategy and diplomacy aspects of the game and tend to Build more than Conquer. My suggestion for a future version of SMAC would be to make the diplomacy much more advanced. Sure there are many more options now then there were in Civ II but they are still very general. I would also like to see AI be more advanced in terms of having reasons to war. Right now the AI goes to war because it is the personality of the faction or you screw them. I think it would be cool to have more advanced reasons. For example, Iraq invaded Kuwait for oil, Yugoslavia is having a civil war over religious differences. There is a reason to fight, in the game, the factions just plain fight. I am also a big fan of the new planet but would also like to see a planet with extremely varied terrain. Then when the factions land they will have to exploit the land differently, utilize different units and potentially have reason to fight if say, your faction begins on a desolate island. On the other hand if your faction begins in a rainy, hilly area you would probably be content to stay home all game. Just a few ideas. Thanks.
ChairmanLee	posted 03-25-99 04:04 PM ET A true 3d world would be good.
DerekM	posted 03-25-99 04:57 PM ET I think that Sid and Brian should do a game where you build a civilization of train-riding nomads who go around pirating other trains. You could win by building the ascent to TRAINscendence. Heh.
eNo	posted 03-25-99 05:07 PM ET AcidJazz - SMAC II is a long way off! I remeber getting CIV II more than two years ago so I guess SMAC II will be at least two years into the future. Also this thread has already had many incarnations but I still post my suggestions. A submersable chassis, not a boat with a special ability. More attention to water: sea sensors, ocean currents, a sea version of the soil enricher, fresh water vs. salt water, etc. True underground bases, not the pseudo-underground bases that the Hive gets. Bases that grow physically with expanding radii, etc. Mobile wonders/secret projects Spherical map perhaps with tectonics and better weather modelling? Slopes of different gradients
Thue	posted 03-25-99 06:52 PM ET Did any of you play x-com III? I really liked the way the combat were modelled there. It was real-time, but you could set the speed to anything from pause to very fast. You could pause the game, give orders, start it again a lean back. In my oppinion it took some of the best qualities out of turnbased and real-time games. I think it would work well for a civ-like game, allthougth you would have to introduce more automatisation(not a bad thing)
CoolWords	posted 03-25-99 08:12 PM ET As I've played SMAC, I've made notes of things I'd like to see improved, and tried to differentiate between what could be done now, via an "enhancement" patch, and what would require significant re-engineering (i.e. SMAC II). My SMAC II list: As previously mentioned, a spherical, 3D world. Polar combat (including the atrocity of melting the caps without council approval), time zones (movement around the world, faction by faction, on a longitudinal basis), and a territory system not dependent on squares or other polygons. Things that haven't yet been mentioned: how about mobile citizens? Sure, the atmosphere is unbreathable... but once mag tubes are built, there's no need for citizens to stay in one place. Excessive rioting or hunger could lower a city's population (but the talents will be the ones most likely to leave). For that matter, there should be a way to transport citizens away from bases that you don't want to keep; that would allow the bases to be deconstructed without committing an atrocity. And then there's the additional diplomatic angle of immigration and emigration...... Oceanic sensor buoys! Once a sea base is established, allow the construction of mag tubes to the mainland. Even during periods of sunspot activity, limited communication should still be possible. Create a special "envoy" unit, with no armor, no weaponry, and a movement bonus; when this unit enters another faction's headquarters city, communications with that leader commence. (Hey, even before Morse and Marconi, nations were able to communicate.) Attacking an envoy is an atrocity. Here's another vote for a better combat system. Finally, but most importantly.... diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy. There's no such thing as too much of it.
evil_conquerer	posted 03-25-99 08:42 PM ET How about a NATO-type bloc slightly different from the Planetary Council? The council was just for simple votes and contained all council members. On the other hand, there could be one that doesn't include everybody, for example: 1: Forming a bloc would be one of the votes in the planetary council. People could vote "join" or "abstain". You would need at least three countries to form a blockade. 2: To join, each faction would have to donate a certain amount of military units (ex. 10 planes, 4 chaos infantry, etc.). These units would have grey shields and could only be controlled by a "neutral" AI. The factions in the bloc would have to vote on airstrikes or other attacks on a particular faction for a certain reason. The interface for votes in your bloc would look a lot like the interface for the council, except that the choices would be different. When a majority votes for airstrikes, they select a nation and a city (and have to have a good reason such as atrocities) and the AI will bomb them. This keeps people from using the bloc's planes for other purposes. 3: The bloc could also vote on different things, such as: Economic sanctions, declaration of war, airstrikes, shore bombardments, and transfer of bloc troops to a faction. All members would have equal votes, except for the president who would have either two votes or veto power (I'm not sure yet).
evil_conquerer	posted 03-25-99 08:46 PM ET Also, the spherical map would not work because it would involve irregular grid shapes. It would be impossible to move with the numpad if half of the squares were triangles (or worse, decahedrons which can also be used)!
Masakari	posted 03-26-99 12:14 AM ET evil_conqueror, I really like the idea of a bloc, but you didn't address the issue of where the AI controlled bloc forces would be stationed. Your idea really caught my attention. Firaxis, please consider it.
Shining1	posted 03-26-99 12:20 AM ET See Alternative Combat System for more ideas.
Zoetrope	posted 03-26-99 03:30 AM ET A spherical map will work: numpads belong in text editors and ASCII RPGs, not in future strategy games. Speaking of diplomacy, a strong faction doesn't care about trade sanctions, so maybe part of the score should reflect reputation? Competitive players care about score.
evil_conquerer	posted 03-27-99 03:37 PM ET A lot of players use the numpad for movement (I find the mouse to just be too unwieldy) Anyhow... That's a good point about where the forces would be stationed. Maybe the founder is required to make an airbase somewhere, but then the question of where the base is located arises (or maybe that's one of the perks of being a bloc leader). Or they could be held in the founder's capital.
eNo	posted 03-27-99 03:52 PM ET Alliances with more than one person so that there are planetary wars with two highly opposed sides.
xgalaxy	posted 03-31-99 12:04 AM ET TITLE: "SMAC II: THE RETURN TO EARTH"
Grug	posted 03-31-99 01:10 AM ET Just to add my ideas to this discussion 1) New Planets: We could make satellites and asteroid mines, but I would like to actually have space units as well eg Space Bombers and space coloneis. 2) Integrate bases with the main maps, like have them expand physically. I would like to have a base as a place in the terrain that you zoom into and build facilites such as roads, houses, factories, etc. Think of them as the kind of bases you make in RTS games. 3) This carries on from the second point, but when I am pounding a city with artillery and their are no more defenders, a random facility should be destroyed. That's all from me