220 Years of Economic Sanctions and Counting. What's Your Best (err Worst)?

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Author Topic:   220 Years of Economic Sanctions and Counting. What's Your Best (err Worst)?

yin26 posted 03-22-99 07:34 PM ET
I'm currently playing a game as Miriam. I don't know, something about her appeals to me. Maybe it's the Holier-than-Thou attitude, the Jesus Loves Me This I Know battle music she sings (well, in my mind she does) as she commits another atrocity in the name of God.
She's like the mother I never had.
So I've been playing as Miriam and handing out the nerve gas like pez to a pack of school kids at recess.
Man am I wreaking havoc! And don't believe what you read about the tech penalties. After brokering deals and sending probes where no man (and maybe three women) have gone before, I'm in the tech lead, too.
I'm also the governer of this hell on Planet.
The only problem:
220 years of economic sanctions--and counting...
What's your atrocious best?
Shining1 posted 03-22-99 07:42 PM ET
234 years and a permanent vendetta with Zakarhov. I kept nerve stapling citizens in his captured bases and finally ended up just obliterating them when I captured them. And I was playing as the Gaians, too! Running naked through the trees indeed. I must try that sometime...
CyberSpyder posted 03-22-99 08:01 PM ET
I guess I'm just the clean-cut kid of Planet. My worst is 10. And that was an accident. Admittedly, I have nerve stapled tons of cities and nerve gassed my enemies into oblivion, but that was only AFTER I had repealed the U.N. Charter. =)
CyberSpyder posted 03-22-99 08:03 PM ET
BTW, why does it take any technology to repeal the U.N. charter? I mean, it's like, "Cool, I just made an advanced military algorithem! And that gives me an idea! It's possible for us to stop using this charter!"
SnowFire posted 03-22-99 09:02 PM ET
CS: A. Pure gameplay balancing, things could get ugly really fast if the charter was gone turn 40.
B. Rewards militarists who research that tech with the ability to do that.
My atrocious best was burning a newly founded city to prevent the Believers from taking it, racking up a whole 10 years of sanctions- and they hurt, too, considering I was relying on them to balance my budget. A small price to pay for the Believers not getting Superstring Theory, though... (Spoils of War was on)
CyberSpyder posted 03-22-99 09:08 PM ET
Yeah, I know it's balancing, I just means in terms of realism. I'm willing to accept some things, big things, huge things even, but that small unrealism just irks me! =)
Q Cubed posted 03-22-99 09:25 PM ET
er...
lemme see.
3 � size 4 bases = 120 yrs
2 � size 2 bases = 40 yrs
24 � nerve gas attacks = 240 yrs
5 � retroviral "experiements" = 50 yrs
2 fusion planetbusters = ?
total = 450 yrs...but luckily, this was AFTER i repealed the UN charter...
but after i did that so many times, nobody would talk to me, and i was so lonely...*sniff*. except yang. he said that i was evil. so i exterminated him.
c'est la vie...
Victor Galis posted 03-22-99 09:46 PM ET
Atrocities!?! You people are evil, all of you!!
Just kidding, I still have no sanctions against me, ever... but I play clean (not like my second demo game, that I achieved ruthless after a prefect Lal Impersonation).
Q Cubed posted 03-22-99 10:01 PM ET
i'm not evil! the UN charter was repealed, so now all's fair in love and war!
i don't know how much love there is though, in the game.
Shining1 posted 03-22-99 10:24 PM ET
Way to go Cubed. More santions than there are years in the game!
Does anyone else find the idea of getting 200+ years santions to be a bit silly? I mean, surely after a while the other factions are going to cotton on to the fact that you're a complete psychopath.
I'd like to see an 'emergency' council session, calling for total war against a faction on the rampage. Motion passed - all factions form a pact and declare vendetta upon the offender. Even better if you can declare a candidate and offer bribes to the other factions to vote with you against them . Now that would be a way to have fun with politics.
'Lal leaned back in his chair, as the battle reports and casualty counts flowed in. Slowly but surely, Zakhorov was being wiped from the face of Planet. With the Gaian fleets have seized most of his naval bases, the University was now fighting a desperate rearguard action against the rapidly advancing Hive/Morgan alliance. Lal smiled cruely, and the machine inside his head smiled with him. "So, Zakhorov, I may have 'exaggerated' your crimes against me a little. But the fact remains. You had to die..."
yin26 posted 03-22-99 11:39 PM ET
Yes, this is definitely a weakness in the game's AI. Keep in mind that the two other factions I haven't gotten to yet STILL voted me governor--as if they weren't next on my list. True, they all eventually pronounced a vendetta on me, but by then I had taken the two most powerful factions and reduced them to drooling idiots. Add this to the fact that not even one faction prepared some defense against my nerve-gas jets for a good 100 turns, and the whole thing just became funny. Like chickens too dumb to run from the wolf.
They deserve to die.
ViVicdi posted 03-23-99 12:11 AM ET
Hmm, back in the demo days I considered Nerve Gas to be the cornerstone technology upon which the game focus shifted (in which direction should be obvious), but we only got 100 turns and one attainable victory condition, so we were kind of backed into a corner.
The worst thing I've done since then, and I'm something of a Boy Scout (Morgan doesn't like sanctions), is raise some territory that wasn't mine so as to put an ocean base I had captured in a war with Crazy Ivan onto land so as to be able to USE the land at all. (Territorial rules favor land bases).
I had to break a truce, I think, in order to raise the land, and Zak wouldn't talk to me after I did it. Then something happened that really shocked me -- he had maybe 10 cities, and I conquered one of them (I just did it so he would talk to me ... honest!) and he surrendered!
I felt a little guilty until I saw all that trade income pouring into my coffers ... heh heh heh. He's getting a big slice, too ... just not as big as mine!
Here's the irony -- he wouldn't even speak with me before I "betrayed" him by raising that little square of that little peninsula next to my base, and now he's making big time money by being a "submissive" Pact Brother. I guess it's the Marshall Plan Paradox, eh? "Prosperity through unconditional surrender ..."
Now I'm going to have to make sure I don't accidentally win a "Conquest Victory" -- I haven't "Transcended" yet, and it seems an appropriate thing for Morgan to do. ("Who says, 'You can't take it with you?'" -- a great quote for Morgan in a Transcend victory ...)
eNo posted 03-23-99 12:40 AM ET
Shouldn't there be some form of social engineering or faction ablity that softens the negative effects of atrocities? Something like in Civ2 where reputation lost is halved while using a Fundamentalist form of government.
jig posted 03-23-99 04:06 AM ET
Jeez, a measly 220 years? You're all wimps. I got over 3000 years of sanctions and that was with the demo. I haven't committed any atrocities (yet) in the full game though.
Abit of advice, make X Needlejets (or GasJets as I call 'em) and you'll get a thousand years easy. And then it gets alot easier from then on, each atrocity you commit will land you another 300 years of sanctions or so...
yin26 posted 03-23-99 04:11 AM ET
That IS what I'm using--every turn, as much as possible.
Either you're being sarcastic (hey, and who isn't these days ), or they clearly adjusted the sanctions to make (a little more) sense in the full version.
jig posted 03-23-99 04:55 AM ET
I doubt it, just keep on using them every chance you get and the sanctions will grow exponentially. Slowly at first and then BOOM!
yin26 posted 03-23-99 05:01 AM ET
After how many turns?
I have been using nerve gas two or three times a turn now for at least 50-100 turns and reached 220 years of sanctions.
How many turns does a man need to get to 3000 then? I hope the exponential part is true, 'cause there just ain't enough time in the game to reach the numbers you posted.
But you give me hope, and I thank you.
The innocent Morgan children, however,...
cousLee posted 03-23-99 05:06 AM ET
The Miriam Special: X-Pod Police PlanetBuster
MoSe posted 03-23-99 05:21 AM ET
What? you mean sanctions are cumulative?
In Civ I was mostly spotless, but didn't care if I had to go for Atrocious.
Now I enjoy being a patented hypocrite, and show my nature only under sunspot cover, wouldn't bear being tagged less than Noble.
I still didn't figure how can I do without that vital commerce.
How does it work, do the factions you're at war with keep also track of the sanctions time span, just in case you become friends later?
White Hunter, Black Heart
MariOne
yin26 posted 03-23-99 08:10 AM ET
O.K.
Update.
Planet killed me. I mean, just ME! Why?
I thought Planet was an equal opportunity murderer.
So there I am. Queen of the world. Turned into food for mindworms and locusts.
All the while, the other factions (whom I was so happily nerve gasing) just sit and watch.
Not even a goodbye letter. Nothing.
absimiliard posted 03-23-99 10:52 AM ET
Well, normally I play a clean game, but in a recent game as Yang I decided to act like him. While I never did use nerve-gas I constantly nerve-stapled as my generic response to those damn drones getting uppity and demanding human-rights. By the end I was picking up 60 years of sanctions a stapling incident, and the penalty was rising at +10 years a pop. So yeah, I can believe 3000+ years of sanctions . I only got a bit over 500 years myself and then v 3.0 came out and I started over with a new game.
-absimiliard
Darkstar posted 03-23-99 04:21 PM ET
My personal best? 5567 years left to go at game end (Total Conquest). Racked it ALL up without ever: A) Nerve Stapling, and B) Planet Busting.
I found out many things that game. 1) If you have YET to commit an atrocity against a particular faction, they were absolute idiots dealing with you. I was so low in Integrety, you couldn't get worse, on a total mad man's war of genocide, and the computer let me roll over it like I was hitler and it was mussilini... Yes sir, no sir, three techs for you... sign a peace treaty, sign a pact, what ever you want...
I thought the computer was suppose to team up on the madmen, but that simply wasn't so. Even had a few beg for their life after nerve gassing and obliterating all bases taken... Silly thing.
But then, I have lost all respect for SMAC and am now pondering if CTP will be just as bad.
Sim City 3000 might be the only new game to survive the HD culling...
-Darkstar
evil_conquerer posted 03-23-99 04:37 PM ET
I thought in the 2.0 update everyone declared war on you if you had too many sanctions (120 years I think).
Or did you turn off the U.N. Charter?
Or could you care less about everyone declaring war on you?
Darkstar posted 03-23-99 04:57 PM ET
That is what I am saying. They *didn't* do it. They just said, well, we can't economic trade with you, but would you like to trade tech? Could you eliminate my neighbor for me? etc etc etc...
If it hadn't been so pathetic, it would have been laughable. But once I started war with a faction, we stayed that way until the begged for thier life. Some did, some didn't. No difference in how I massacred their people with Nerve Gas, nor how I obliterated their cities. Go figure. The code is definately flaky...
-Darkstar
Darkstar posted 03-23-99 05:00 PM ET
And no... I didn't turn off the charter. That wasn't even an option for the first 2000 accumulated years of sanction. But when I tried, all but one of the surviving factions voted against it, and I didn't see a point in providing them with things to use in their personal wars. (That game was completed before MY 2375)
-Darkstar
SnowFire posted 03-23-99 07:45 PM ET
Were you playing on Transcend?
By the way, my mild burning of one base was with Yang. So I played him at least somewhat in character.
Fragboy posted 03-23-99 07:50 PM ET
Ha! Those scores are nothing! I once got 6973 years as the hive. Using lots of X Chaos pentrators, too. And a couple of fusion pb's. And obliterating a dozen of miriams bases.
yin26 posted 03-23-99 10:15 PM ET
Hey, are you sure you're not talking about the red number after the factions? That's not years. I'm not quite sure what that numer is but it's like 5000 something for me. It should say on the screen like "Factions Penalize You With XXX Years Of Economic Sanctions" or something like that...
Are you telling me that in THAT message you got 6000+ as the numer?
If so, what's you're secret? You sick monster.
yin26 posted 03-23-99 10:17 PM ET
addendum:
"numer" = number
"you're" = your (at the end, there)
I'm sure there's more.
Q Cubed posted 03-23-99 10:29 PM ET
Obliteration is great. If they place a base somewhere, and you don't want it there after you capture it, you exterminate it.
I did that with the game above - and i still have 60+ cities, now.
X Copters are even better - multiple attacks in one turn.
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 03-23-99 11:20 PM ET
You guys are all pansies! I got well over 6000 years of sanctions, in just under 100 turns. Reason why: I was at war with the Hive, and Believers, the factions I hate most. I obliterated some bases, nerve gased many more, and nerve stapled angry populaces. The AI also has no idea how to place bases, so I obliterated a few crap bases. The worst I did was on the Believers. Their empire was a north and south one, connected by a small isthmus of land. My southern victory was quick, but my northern battle was somewhat harder, so I transfered my troops north. But I knew the Believers would recapture those cities, and get some advanced tech from me if I moved north.....So before moving out, I obliterated all 10 cities(for over 1 million Believers mercilessly slaughtered), and moved north. I also obliterated just about all their water bases, which were useless.
Then I launched my final campaign against the PK's. Since I like them, I used no atrocities against him....I also wanted him to surrender to me.
Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH
Fragboy posted 03-24-99 12:49 AM ET
no, i'm tallking about the number in the energy banks status window, that is clearly called: sanctions. Also, i managed to get the message saying that the sea level will drop, so many times, it was about 6000 meters altogether in the same turn. About 500 eco-damage in some of my bases, and without the space elevator, but that is another story!
yin26 posted 03-24-99 01:04 AM ET
O.K. PEOPLE!
We are talking two different things here.
1. Number of YEARS of sanctions (clearly marked in the thread title).
and
2. Sanctions as listed in the energy banks status window (not my origincal question, but probably a better measure anyway).
The number of years comes out only as a little message to you from the other factions. I managed to reach 220.
So all you people bragging about 6,000 years of sanctions are smoking pot or something.
Thanks to Fragboy for the clarification.
jig posted 03-24-99 01:25 AM ET
Oh, so you're talking about the number of years of sanctions you get EACH atrocity you commit...well, like I said before, I was getting over 300 years each atrocity near the end.
For the number of accumulated years of sanctions left at the end of the game, I got 3000+ years.
yin26 posted 03-24-99 01:39 AM ET
Thanks jig,
I just realized myself what you were saying. Each time that message comes up, you take that to be cumulative. I kept thinking it was sort of an update, you know, a running total.
You right, I'm pretty sure.
So that means I was getting 220 years PER atrocity at that point?!
I kept thinking, "Why aren't they getting a little tougher with the sanctions?"
The real question, of course, is why the AI basically just folds when confronting this evil strategy...
Darkstar posted 03-24-99 01:54 AM ET
Oh, you meant the penalty... sorry. What I get for reading and replying from work.
I was up to about 460 Years of SANCTIONS per atrocity when I stopped paying attention to it. After you have ACCUMULATED a hundred or so, what's the point of worrying about it?
If I had started using Nerve Gas earlier in that game, I am sure I could have racked up a higher total. It all started innocently... Lal declared war on me (silly boy) and since he had almost ALL of his cities like
*-*-*
-*-*-
*-*-*
or there abouts (everything was only 1 tile diagonally from the others and as close as possible on the grain of the squares). I wanted to weed out a few of the many so that the few left could grow will and whatnot... Once I was started, I wondered how far I could push, killing all opponent cities. Apparently, you can push them right of the planet and not worry about it. Go figure.
And whether its a 15 city or a 1, its still the same atrocity destroying it. What's funny is eliminating a land base by taking it over (the auto loss of pop), but after I racked up enough atrocity points, eliminating the sea bases by taking them over DID count as an atrocity. Go figure.
-Darkstar
yin26 posted 03-24-99 02:16 AM ET
Again, thanks for the clarification.
I'm sorry for the confusion. I totally misunderstood the way the messages worked. Now I see that my thread makes no sense whatsoever.
Has this ever happened to you?
December Man posted 04-20-99 04:50 PM ET
. . .yin26 gets confused. . .
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Author	Topic: 220 Years of Economic Sanctions and Counting. What's Your Best (err Worst)?
yin26	posted 03-22-99 07:34 PM ET I'm currently playing a game as Miriam. I don't know, something about her appeals to me. Maybe it's the Holier-than-Thou attitude, the Jesus Loves Me This I Know battle music she sings (well, in my mind she does) as she commits another atrocity in the name of God. She's like the mother I never had. So I've been playing as Miriam and handing out the nerve gas like pez to a pack of school kids at recess. Man am I wreaking havoc! And don't believe what you read about the tech penalties. After brokering deals and sending probes where no man (and maybe three women) have gone before, I'm in the tech lead, too. I'm also the governer of this hell on Planet. The only problem: 220 years of economic sanctions--and counting... What's your atrocious best?
Shining1	posted 03-22-99 07:42 PM ET 234 years and a permanent vendetta with Zakarhov. I kept nerve stapling citizens in his captured bases and finally ended up just obliterating them when I captured them. And I was playing as the Gaians, too! Running naked through the trees indeed. I must try that sometime...
CyberSpyder	posted 03-22-99 08:01 PM ET I guess I'm just the clean-cut kid of Planet. My worst is 10. And that was an accident. Admittedly, I have nerve stapled tons of cities and nerve gassed my enemies into oblivion, but that was only AFTER I had repealed the U.N. Charter. =)
CyberSpyder	posted 03-22-99 08:03 PM ET BTW, why does it take any technology to repeal the U.N. charter? I mean, it's like, "Cool, I just made an advanced military algorithem! And that gives me an idea! It's possible for us to stop using this charter!"
SnowFire	posted 03-22-99 09:02 PM ET CS: A. Pure gameplay balancing, things could get ugly really fast if the charter was gone turn 40. B. Rewards militarists who research that tech with the ability to do that. My atrocious best was burning a newly founded city to prevent the Believers from taking it, racking up a whole 10 years of sanctions- and they hurt, too, considering I was relying on them to balance my budget. A small price to pay for the Believers not getting Superstring Theory, though... (Spoils of War was on)
CyberSpyder	posted 03-22-99 09:08 PM ET Yeah, I know it's balancing, I just means in terms of realism. I'm willing to accept some things, big things, huge things even, but that small unrealism just irks me! =)
Q Cubed	posted 03-22-99 09:25 PM ET er... lemme see. 3 � size 4 bases = 120 yrs 2 � size 2 bases = 40 yrs 24 � nerve gas attacks = 240 yrs 5 � retroviral "experiements" = 50 yrs 2 fusion planetbusters = ? total = 450 yrs...but luckily, this was AFTER i repealed the UN charter... but after i did that so many times, nobody would talk to me, and i was so lonely...sniff. except yang. he said that i was evil. so i exterminated him. c'est la vie...
Victor Galis	posted 03-22-99 09:46 PM ET Atrocities!?! You people are evil, all of you!! Just kidding, I still have no sanctions against me, ever... but I play clean (not like my second demo game, that I achieved ruthless after a prefect Lal Impersonation).
Q Cubed	posted 03-22-99 10:01 PM ET i'm not evil! the UN charter was repealed, so now all's fair in love and war! i don't know how much love there is though, in the game.
Shining1	posted 03-22-99 10:24 PM ET Way to go Cubed. More santions than there are years in the game! Does anyone else find the idea of getting 200+ years santions to be a bit silly? I mean, surely after a while the other factions are going to cotton on to the fact that you're a complete psychopath. I'd like to see an 'emergency' council session, calling for total war against a faction on the rampage. Motion passed - all factions form a pact and declare vendetta upon the offender. Even better if you can declare a candidate and offer bribes to the other factions to vote with you against them . Now that would be a way to have fun with politics. 'Lal leaned back in his chair, as the battle reports and casualty counts flowed in. Slowly but surely, Zakhorov was being wiped from the face of Planet. With the Gaian fleets have seized most of his naval bases, the University was now fighting a desperate rearguard action against the rapidly advancing Hive/Morgan alliance. Lal smiled cruely, and the machine inside his head smiled with him. "So, Zakhorov, I may have 'exaggerated' your crimes against me a little. But the fact remains. You had to die..."
yin26	posted 03-22-99 11:39 PM ET Yes, this is definitely a weakness in the game's AI. Keep in mind that the two other factions I haven't gotten to yet STILL voted me governor--as if they weren't next on my list. True, they all eventually pronounced a vendetta on me, but by then I had taken the two most powerful factions and reduced them to drooling idiots. Add this to the fact that not even one faction prepared some defense against my nerve-gas jets for a good 100 turns, and the whole thing just became funny. Like chickens too dumb to run from the wolf. They deserve to die.
ViVicdi	posted 03-23-99 12:11 AM ET Hmm, back in the demo days I considered Nerve Gas to be the cornerstone technology upon which the game focus shifted (in which direction should be obvious), but we only got 100 turns and one attainable victory condition, so we were kind of backed into a corner. The worst thing I've done since then, and I'm something of a Boy Scout (Morgan doesn't like sanctions), is raise some territory that wasn't mine so as to put an ocean base I had captured in a war with Crazy Ivan onto land so as to be able to USE the land at all. (Territorial rules favor land bases). I had to break a truce, I think, in order to raise the land, and Zak wouldn't talk to me after I did it. Then something happened that really shocked me -- he had maybe 10 cities, and I conquered one of them (I just did it so he would talk to me ... honest!) and he surrendered! I felt a little guilty until I saw all that trade income pouring into my coffers ... heh heh heh. He's getting a big slice, too ... just not as big as mine! Here's the irony -- he wouldn't even speak with me before I "betrayed" him by raising that little square of that little peninsula next to my base, and now he's making big time money by being a "submissive" Pact Brother. I guess it's the Marshall Plan Paradox, eh? "Prosperity through unconditional surrender ..." Now I'm going to have to make sure I don't accidentally win a "Conquest Victory" -- I haven't "Transcended" yet, and it seems an appropriate thing for Morgan to do. ("Who says, 'You can't take it with you?'" -- a great quote for Morgan in a Transcend victory ...)
eNo	posted 03-23-99 12:40 AM ET Shouldn't there be some form of social engineering or faction ablity that softens the negative effects of atrocities? Something like in Civ2 where reputation lost is halved while using a Fundamentalist form of government.
jig	posted 03-23-99 04:06 AM ET Jeez, a measly 220 years? You're all wimps. I got over 3000 years of sanctions and that was with the demo. I haven't committed any atrocities (yet) in the full game though. Abit of advice, make X Needlejets (or GasJets as I call 'em) and you'll get a thousand years easy. And then it gets alot easier from then on, each atrocity you commit will land you another 300 years of sanctions or so...
yin26	posted 03-23-99 04:11 AM ET That IS what I'm using--every turn, as much as possible. Either you're being sarcastic (hey, and who isn't these days ), or they clearly adjusted the sanctions to make (a little more) sense in the full version.
jig	posted 03-23-99 04:55 AM ET I doubt it, just keep on using them every chance you get and the sanctions will grow exponentially. Slowly at first and then BOOM!
yin26	posted 03-23-99 05:01 AM ET After how many turns? I have been using nerve gas two or three times a turn now for at least 50-100 turns and reached 220 years of sanctions. How many turns does a man need to get to 3000 then? I hope the exponential part is true, 'cause there just ain't enough time in the game to reach the numbers you posted. But you give me hope, and I thank you. The innocent Morgan children, however,...
cousLee	posted 03-23-99 05:06 AM ET The Miriam Special: X-Pod Police PlanetBuster
MoSe	posted 03-23-99 05:21 AM ET What? you mean sanctions are cumulative? In Civ I was mostly spotless, but didn't care if I had to go for Atrocious. Now I enjoy being a patented hypocrite, and show my nature only under sunspot cover, wouldn't bear being tagged less than Noble. I still didn't figure how can I do without that vital commerce. How does it work, do the factions you're at war with keep also track of the sanctions time span, just in case you become friends later? White Hunter, Black Heart MariOne
yin26	posted 03-23-99 08:10 AM ET O.K. Update. Planet killed me. I mean, just ME! Why? I thought Planet was an equal opportunity murderer. So there I am. Queen of the world. Turned into food for mindworms and locusts. All the while, the other factions (whom I was so happily nerve gasing) just sit and watch. Not even a goodbye letter. Nothing.
absimiliard	posted 03-23-99 10:52 AM ET Well, normally I play a clean game, but in a recent game as Yang I decided to act like him. While I never did use nerve-gas I constantly nerve-stapled as my generic response to those damn drones getting uppity and demanding human-rights. By the end I was picking up 60 years of sanctions a stapling incident, and the penalty was rising at +10 years a pop. So yeah, I can believe 3000+ years of sanctions . I only got a bit over 500 years myself and then v 3.0 came out and I started over with a new game. -absimiliard
Darkstar	posted 03-23-99 04:21 PM ET My personal best? 5567 years left to go at game end (Total Conquest). Racked it ALL up without ever: A) Nerve Stapling, and B) Planet Busting. I found out many things that game. 1) If you have YET to commit an atrocity against a particular faction, they were absolute idiots dealing with you. I was so low in Integrety, you couldn't get worse, on a total mad man's war of genocide, and the computer let me roll over it like I was hitler and it was mussilini... Yes sir, no sir, three techs for you... sign a peace treaty, sign a pact, what ever you want... I thought the computer was suppose to team up on the madmen, but that simply wasn't so. Even had a few beg for their life after nerve gassing and obliterating all bases taken... Silly thing. But then, I have lost all respect for SMAC and am now pondering if CTP will be just as bad. Sim City 3000 might be the only new game to survive the HD culling... -Darkstar
evil_conquerer	posted 03-23-99 04:37 PM ET I thought in the 2.0 update everyone declared war on you if you had too many sanctions (120 years I think). Or did you turn off the U.N. Charter? Or could you care less about everyone declaring war on you?
Darkstar	posted 03-23-99 04:57 PM ET That is what I am saying. They didn't do it. They just said, well, we can't economic trade with you, but would you like to trade tech? Could you eliminate my neighbor for me? etc etc etc... If it hadn't been so pathetic, it would have been laughable. But once I started war with a faction, we stayed that way until the begged for thier life. Some did, some didn't. No difference in how I massacred their people with Nerve Gas, nor how I obliterated their cities. Go figure. The code is definately flaky... -Darkstar
Darkstar	posted 03-23-99 05:00 PM ET And no... I didn't turn off the charter. That wasn't even an option for the first 2000 accumulated years of sanction. But when I tried, all but one of the surviving factions voted against it, and I didn't see a point in providing them with things to use in their personal wars. (That game was completed before MY 2375) -Darkstar
SnowFire	posted 03-23-99 07:45 PM ET Were you playing on Transcend? By the way, my mild burning of one base was with Yang. So I played him at least somewhat in character.
Fragboy	posted 03-23-99 07:50 PM ET Ha! Those scores are nothing! I once got 6973 years as the hive. Using lots of X Chaos pentrators, too. And a couple of fusion pb's. And obliterating a dozen of miriams bases.
yin26	posted 03-23-99 10:15 PM ET Hey, are you sure you're not talking about the red number after the factions? That's not years. I'm not quite sure what that numer is but it's like 5000 something for me. It should say on the screen like "Factions Penalize You With XXX Years Of Economic Sanctions" or something like that... Are you telling me that in THAT message you got 6000+ as the numer? If so, what's you're secret? You sick monster.
yin26	posted 03-23-99 10:17 PM ET addendum: "numer" = number "you're" = your (at the end, there) I'm sure there's more.
Q Cubed	posted 03-23-99 10:29 PM ET Obliteration is great. If they place a base somewhere, and you don't want it there after you capture it, you exterminate it. I did that with the game above - and i still have 60+ cities, now. X Copters are even better - multiple attacks in one turn.
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey	posted 03-23-99 11:20 PM ET You guys are all pansies! I got well over 6000 years of sanctions, in just under 100 turns. Reason why: I was at war with the Hive, and Believers, the factions I hate most. I obliterated some bases, nerve gased many more, and nerve stapled angry populaces. The AI also has no idea how to place bases, so I obliterated a few crap bases. The worst I did was on the Believers. Their empire was a north and south one, connected by a small isthmus of land. My southern victory was quick, but my northern battle was somewhat harder, so I transfered my troops north. But I knew the Believers would recapture those cities, and get some advanced tech from me if I moved north.....So before moving out, I obliterated all 10 cities(for over 1 million Believers mercilessly slaughtered), and moved north. I also obliterated just about all their water bases, which were useless. Then I launched my final campaign against the PK's. Since I like them, I used no atrocities against him....I also wanted him to surrender to me. Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general, YYYH
Fragboy	posted 03-24-99 12:49 AM ET no, i'm tallking about the number in the energy banks status window, that is clearly called: sanctions. Also, i managed to get the message saying that the sea level will drop, so many times, it was about 6000 meters altogether in the same turn. About 500 eco-damage in some of my bases, and without the space elevator, but that is another story!
yin26	posted 03-24-99 01:04 AM ET O.K. PEOPLE! We are talking two different things here. 1. Number of YEARS of sanctions (clearly marked in the thread title). and 2. Sanctions as listed in the energy banks status window (not my origincal question, but probably a better measure anyway). The number of years comes out only as a little message to you from the other factions. I managed to reach 220. So all you people bragging about 6,000 years of sanctions are smoking pot or something. Thanks to Fragboy for the clarification.
jig	posted 03-24-99 01:25 AM ET Oh, so you're talking about the number of years of sanctions you get EACH atrocity you commit...well, like I said before, I was getting over 300 years each atrocity near the end. For the number of accumulated years of sanctions left at the end of the game, I got 3000+ years.
yin26	posted 03-24-99 01:39 AM ET Thanks jig, I just realized myself what you were saying. Each time that message comes up, you take that to be cumulative. I kept thinking it was sort of an update, you know, a running total. You right, I'm pretty sure. So that means I was getting 220 years PER atrocity at that point?! I kept thinking, "Why aren't they getting a little tougher with the sanctions?" The real question, of course, is why the AI basically just folds when confronting this evil strategy...
Darkstar	posted 03-24-99 01:54 AM ET Oh, you meant the penalty... sorry. What I get for reading and replying from work. I was up to about 460 Years of SANCTIONS per atrocity when I stopped paying attention to it. After you have ACCUMULATED a hundred or so, what's the point of worrying about it? If I had started using Nerve Gas earlier in that game, I am sure I could have racked up a higher total. It all started innocently... Lal declared war on me (silly boy) and since he had almost ALL of his cities like --* --- --* or there abouts (everything was only 1 tile diagonally from the others and as close as possible on the grain of the squares). I wanted to weed out a few of the many so that the few left could grow will and whatnot... Once I was started, I wondered how far I could push, killing all opponent cities. Apparently, you can push them right of the planet and not worry about it. Go figure. And whether its a 15 city or a 1, its still the same atrocity destroying it. What's funny is eliminating a land base by taking it over (the auto loss of pop), but after I racked up enough atrocity points, eliminating the sea bases by taking them over DID count as an atrocity. Go figure. -Darkstar
yin26	posted 03-24-99 02:16 AM ET Again, thanks for the clarification. I'm sorry for the confusion. I totally misunderstood the way the messages worked. Now I see that my thread makes no sense whatsoever. Has this ever happened to you?
December Man	posted 04-20-99 04:50 PM ET . . .yin26 gets confused. . .