Under the Tech tree... (I probed you, you'll probe me [?] )

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Author Topic:   Under the Tech tree... (I probed you, you'll probe me [?] )

MoSe posted 03-18-99 12:15 PM ET
After some testing, I came to answer to few questions I posted weeks ago.
It's about Blind Research.
Tried one with it ON (and Stagnation, and no Spoils; oh, playing Bellyvers: sort of masoch test, but that's another topic).
1. even in these conditions, Thinker, I'm outteching by far the rest of the field, and I kept Labs to 30/40% most of the time (?!!!).
2.
- you're allowed to use Shift+R at no cost
- the tech you get is picked up at discovery time
- if you reload w/out changing anything you get always the same, tho; you have to try different actions at the end of previous turn (also with IronMan off) to hope gettin something different (very rare).
- Most Important: the tech tree is visited in posticipated order.
That means, you visit all the same level (brother) nodes before you can (are allowed) to explore the next level, not to mention a branch or an entire subtree.
In terms of game when you direct your Res to, say, Explore, once you got the E2 techs you won't get the E3s even if you have the requisites, until you completed the level two, i.e. discovered all those B2 D2 C2 you were not focusing on.
I tried up to level 5 with no exceptions.
Coincidence? Design choice? Well, someone let me know. No complaint, just a remark.
Maybe the feature is undocumented to comply with 'Blind'?
Provost in Disguise
MariOne
Ah, PS: no pods too, so no artifacts->free techs.
Rong posted 03-18-99 01:36 PM ET
That's not true. Just last night I got an E8 tech while I was hoping desperately for Monopole Magnets (B6).
BTW, I always play with Blind Tech on. Seems more realistic to me.
Dredd posted 03-18-99 02:14 PM ET
Have to agree with Rong. I only play with Blind Research, and I've been able to progress quite far down a single branch without discovering lower level techs from the other branches.
Dredd
Blind Research's biggest fan.
will posted 03-18-99 02:46 PM ET
On the Blind setting, I've also found myself frequently hopping tech levels in my chosen field of research. I've always been several levels beyond my advancement in other areas, so I think MoSe's observations are a matter of random chance.
JaimeWolf posted 03-18-99 06:52 PM ET
Blind research still gives you a strong hint as to what you are resaerching ... F2 has a coloured bar which narrows it down to one or two choices. I've looked several times in my last game and guessed which tech is coming up ... I've been right every time.
For example, starting with a yellow tech-line means you are researching Social Psych or Industrial Base.
Using Shift-R only changes your *next* tech choice, not the one you are currently researching when blind.
James
MoSe posted 03-19-99 04:06 AM ET
This is the first game I play with a forum, and I have to say that it's its best feature.
Actually I should know that one run doesn't make for a sound test. Now, if the game behavior I experienced came out of random chance, I can't figure why it gave me Applied Physics when I looked exclusively for Explore (Mobility).
I have to thank you all, team work is much more powerful.
JW, which coloured bar are you referring to? I guess the ones in the lower right corner only show how the techs you discovered so far are distributed.
So you must be meaning the top bar, showing the research advancement.
Obviously I did notice that the colour refleceted the current tech, when I had Blind OFF.
I simply forgot it in this test (you often overlook the most conspicuous and prominent thing).
This way, though blind, you could verify if you got the requested research field at the start of each research. I'll check for it.
Unfettered Research & Free-flow of informations
Grazie
MariOne
MoSe posted 03-19-99 04:15 AM ET
Forgot to say:
Is it possible that some other of my settings could produce that research behaviour? Maybe a further Believers hindering?
Rong posted 03-19-99 12:50 PM ET
Hmm, the color coding is interesting. I haven't really noticed.
In Prima's guide they mentioned each tech has certain values associated with it. For example, an E4 tech could have values of 1 discover, 3 explore and 2 build (on a scale of 5). But it could also be that a D8 has 4 build, 1 explore and 2 discover. When you set your research priority, say, to explore, you are looking for the tech with the highest explore value, which may or may not be an explore tech. Confused yet?
Anyway, blind research to me is just that, blind. Usually I just use the faction default research priority and never change it. I'll take whatever tech my scientists give me.
Bdot posted 03-19-99 04:21 PM ET
I just started playing the game and never saw a option to play without blind research.. I guess it's somewhere when designing a new game or something..
It seems a little .. i mean.. a lot confusing.. randomly you get something and it never seems to have any relation to what you had.. just sort of pull something out of the hat kind of thing...
RobKid posted 03-19-99 04:27 PM ET
MoSe: The bar they are referring to is the progress bar at the top of the F2 screen. It changes color (white, yellow, green or red) depending on what you're researching. Personally, I think it should be a neutral color when using blind research.
Bdot: The option is in Customize Game Rules.
Personally, I'd like to see a research system where the norm is blind research, but if I really want to I can pick a specific tech to research (assuming I have the prerequisites). The catch? A research penalty while researching the tech. It ensures you get what you want at that particular time, but you pay for that level of control. You might get it cheaper by just altering your research focus, but you might wind up with Centauri Empathy when you really need that Hunter-Seeker algorithm...
Antiam posted 03-20-99 01:24 AM ET
Alpha.txt has the weighting values for every tech... eg.
Biogenetics, Biogen, 0, 3, 2, 2, None, None, 000100000
The first four numbers are the ones in question, power, tech, wealth, and growth. I bet you can interprete that, conquer, discover, build, explore.
Antiam
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Author	Topic: Under the Tech tree... (I probed you, you'll probe me [?] )
MoSe	posted 03-18-99 12:15 PM ET After some testing, I came to answer to few questions I posted weeks ago. It's about Blind Research. Tried one with it ON (and Stagnation, and no Spoils; oh, playing Bellyvers: sort of masoch test, but that's another topic). 1. even in these conditions, Thinker, I'm outteching by far the rest of the field, and I kept Labs to 30/40% most of the time (?!!!). 2. - you're allowed to use Shift+R at no cost - the tech you get is picked up at discovery time - if you reload w/out changing anything you get always the same, tho; you have to try different actions at the end of previous turn (also with IronMan off) to hope gettin something different (very rare). - Most Important: the tech tree is visited in posticipated order. That means, you visit all the same level (brother) nodes before you can (are allowed) to explore the next level, not to mention a branch or an entire subtree. In terms of game when you direct your Res to, say, Explore, once you got the E2 techs you won't get the E3s even if you have the requisites, until you completed the level two, i.e. discovered all those B2 D2 C2 you were not focusing on. I tried up to level 5 with no exceptions. Coincidence? Design choice? Well, someone let me know. No complaint, just a remark. Maybe the feature is undocumented to comply with 'Blind'? Provost in Disguise MariOne Ah, PS: no pods too, so no artifacts->free techs.
Rong	posted 03-18-99 01:36 PM ET That's not true. Just last night I got an E8 tech while I was hoping desperately for Monopole Magnets (B6). BTW, I always play with Blind Tech on. Seems more realistic to me.
Dredd	posted 03-18-99 02:14 PM ET Have to agree with Rong. I only play with Blind Research, and I've been able to progress quite far down a single branch without discovering lower level techs from the other branches. Dredd Blind Research's biggest fan.
will	posted 03-18-99 02:46 PM ET On the Blind setting, I've also found myself frequently hopping tech levels in my chosen field of research. I've always been several levels beyond my advancement in other areas, so I think MoSe's observations are a matter of random chance.
JaimeWolf	posted 03-18-99 06:52 PM ET Blind research still gives you a strong hint as to what you are resaerching ... F2 has a coloured bar which narrows it down to one or two choices. I've looked several times in my last game and guessed which tech is coming up ... I've been right every time. For example, starting with a yellow tech-line means you are researching Social Psych or Industrial Base. Using Shift-R only changes your next tech choice, not the one you are currently researching when blind. James
MoSe	posted 03-19-99 04:06 AM ET This is the first game I play with a forum, and I have to say that it's its best feature. Actually I should know that one run doesn't make for a sound test. Now, if the game behavior I experienced came out of random chance, I can't figure why it gave me Applied Physics when I looked exclusively for Explore (Mobility). I have to thank you all, team work is much more powerful. JW, which coloured bar are you referring to? I guess the ones in the lower right corner only show how the techs you discovered so far are distributed. So you must be meaning the top bar, showing the research advancement. Obviously I did notice that the colour refleceted the current tech, when I had Blind OFF. I simply forgot it in this test (you often overlook the most conspicuous and prominent thing). This way, though blind, you could verify if you got the requested research field at the start of each research. I'll check for it. Unfettered Research & Free-flow of informations Grazie MariOne
MoSe	posted 03-19-99 04:15 AM ET Forgot to say: Is it possible that some other of my settings could produce that research behaviour? Maybe a further Believers hindering?
Rong	posted 03-19-99 12:50 PM ET Hmm, the color coding is interesting. I haven't really noticed. In Prima's guide they mentioned each tech has certain values associated with it. For example, an E4 tech could have values of 1 discover, 3 explore and 2 build (on a scale of 5). But it could also be that a D8 has 4 build, 1 explore and 2 discover. When you set your research priority, say, to explore, you are looking for the tech with the highest explore value, which may or may not be an explore tech. Confused yet? Anyway, blind research to me is just that, blind. Usually I just use the faction default research priority and never change it. I'll take whatever tech my scientists give me.
Bdot	posted 03-19-99 04:21 PM ET I just started playing the game and never saw a option to play without blind research.. I guess it's somewhere when designing a new game or something.. It seems a little .. i mean.. a lot confusing.. randomly you get something and it never seems to have any relation to what you had.. just sort of pull something out of the hat kind of thing...
RobKid	posted 03-19-99 04:27 PM ET MoSe: The bar they are referring to is the progress bar at the top of the F2 screen. It changes color (white, yellow, green or red) depending on what you're researching. Personally, I think it should be a neutral color when using blind research. Bdot: The option is in Customize Game Rules. Personally, I'd like to see a research system where the norm is blind research, but if I really want to I can pick a specific tech to research (assuming I have the prerequisites). The catch? A research penalty while researching the tech. It ensures you get what you want at that particular time, but you pay for that level of control. You might get it cheaper by just altering your research focus, but you might wind up with Centauri Empathy when you really need that Hunter-Seeker algorithm...
Antiam	posted 03-20-99 01:24 AM ET Alpha.txt has the weighting values for every tech... eg. Biogenetics, Biogen, 0, 3, 2, 2, None, None, 000100000 The first four numbers are the ones in question, power, tech, wealth, and growth. I bet you can interprete that, conquer, discover, build, explore. Antiam