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Author Topic:   Punishment Spheres

jedijon posted 03-16-99 03:48 PM ET
Does anyone use Punishment Spheres? I have never found a use for them A 50% research penalty seems like quite a lot. Is this cummulative with the effects of other enhancements?
Example: Base provides 4 research. Network Node adds 50% (2 more research) for a total of 6 research. Would the punishment sphere have a 50% penalty to the original 4 (-2 research) resulting in 4 research total (in effect the Sphere and the Node cancel each other out) or would the Sphere have a 50% penalty to the resulting research (6 - 50% [-3]) resulting in 3 total research.
I know the difference between 3 and 4 is insignificant, but I am using small numbers just for simplicity.
Also, the penalty of never having talents means that you would never have Golden Ages in that base. Between the two, Spheres seem to be too costly to be worth the effort.
One of the reasons that I ask is because I am considering a true "evil" faction (similar to the Cuthulu faction listed in the factions forum), and I was considering having a Punishment Sphere being the granted building that every base has (and thus cannot get rid of), like the Network Node is for UoP. But I was wondering what kind of advantages I would need to give such a faction to compensate.
Any advise on the use or balancing the use of Punishment Spheres is appreciated!
"Ah, Commisioner Lal. Good to see you. Please have a seat in the round chair that I have had designed specifically for your visit."
--Chairman Yang, Greeting for Pravin Lal
GreatNate posted 03-16-99 04:12 PM ET
Actually, they can be quite useful for going to war with a lousy police rating. Make all of your new combat units with the clean modification. Pick a city with not much science, and build the Sphere.
Now, you take all of your new units, and reset their home base to the city with the Sphere. Each unit would be making two drones, but now all of those nasty peaceniks get quickly, errr, 're-educated' to the proper value system.
Pique posted 03-16-99 04:19 PM ET
I use PS's in two instances:
1. ViVicdi's 'Army Laundering' technique, described above by GreatNate.
2. When playing the Believers, toward midgame, when gearing up for a conquest victory. I will ignore research funding, build a huge army backed up by many PS's, and depend almost entirely (well...forget almost) on Probe Team theft for research.
So...if you are going to make a faction with PS's in every base, I would grant them probe tech and some probe +'s to balance it. JMHO.
Pique
agoraphobe posted 03-16-99 04:46 PM ET
It has been established elsewhere (in the 'Transcend Ironman...' thread) that the _optimal_ strategy is to attack, attack, attack with an aim for a midgame victory. This requires, not the _highest_, but the most cost-effective military tech. Since even the retarded Believers can get to Impact, Probes and Foils with little sweat, any 'build' or 'climb' (the tech tree) strategy will be beaten to the punch by a horde of Impact Rovers, Foil Gunships and +3/+4 Probes (and +25% offense, if you "believe").
Aside from their obvious use - to suppress drones in a newly conquered high pop base - they're great for those Free Marketeers who plan to steal all their tech. Imagine a Free Market / Fundamentalist Believer faction with the equivalent of what someone called "a Shakesphere's Theatre in every city"! Network nodes - why bother? Spend it instead on those Shakes - er, that is, Punishment - Spheres and crank out a huge Free Market army!
In fact, I'll experiment with just that in my current Believers game, once they "acquire" the PuniSphere tech.
Piglet posted 03-17-99 03:51 AM ET
I have found that building PSs everywhere mid-game as Yang and then switching to Fundamentalism (loses the police advantgae which is why the PS's come into their own) and Planned (high growth so up population quickly) can be very effective. In the earlier stages don't bother building any psych improvements (use your early +3 police rating to get to lots of size 3/4 cities on transcend). This relies on very active diplomacy early on (be a tech broker between as many factions as possible) and active use of probe teams later on to steal techs. If you can eventually build the Cloning Vats things then really take off!
Incidentally as an aside - with Morgan I found the combination of Cloning Vats and Telepathic matrix sent me exponential - this probably applies to any faction more or less, but it can only be obtained quite late on.
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Author	Topic: Punishment Spheres
jedijon	posted 03-16-99 03:48 PM ET Does anyone use Punishment Spheres? I have never found a use for them A 50% research penalty seems like quite a lot. Is this cummulative with the effects of other enhancements? Example: Base provides 4 research. Network Node adds 50% (2 more research) for a total of 6 research. Would the punishment sphere have a 50% penalty to the original 4 (-2 research) resulting in 4 research total (in effect the Sphere and the Node cancel each other out) or would the Sphere have a 50% penalty to the resulting research (6 - 50% [-3]) resulting in 3 total research. I know the difference between 3 and 4 is insignificant, but I am using small numbers just for simplicity. Also, the penalty of never having talents means that you would never have Golden Ages in that base. Between the two, Spheres seem to be too costly to be worth the effort. One of the reasons that I ask is because I am considering a true "evil" faction (similar to the Cuthulu faction listed in the factions forum), and I was considering having a Punishment Sphere being the granted building that every base has (and thus cannot get rid of), like the Network Node is for UoP. But I was wondering what kind of advantages I would need to give such a faction to compensate. Any advise on the use or balancing the use of Punishment Spheres is appreciated! "Ah, Commisioner Lal. Good to see you. Please have a seat in the round chair that I have had designed specifically for your visit." --Chairman Yang, Greeting for Pravin Lal
GreatNate	posted 03-16-99 04:12 PM ET Actually, they can be quite useful for going to war with a lousy police rating. Make all of your new combat units with the clean modification. Pick a city with not much science, and build the Sphere. Now, you take all of your new units, and reset their home base to the city with the Sphere. Each unit would be making two drones, but now all of those nasty peaceniks get quickly, errr, 're-educated' to the proper value system.
Pique	posted 03-16-99 04:19 PM ET I use PS's in two instances: 1. ViVicdi's 'Army Laundering' technique, described above by GreatNate. 2. When playing the Believers, toward midgame, when gearing up for a conquest victory. I will ignore research funding, build a huge army backed up by many PS's, and depend almost entirely (well...forget almost) on Probe Team theft for research. So...if you are going to make a faction with PS's in every base, I would grant them probe tech and some probe +'s to balance it. JMHO. Pique
agoraphobe	posted 03-16-99 04:46 PM ET It has been established elsewhere (in the 'Transcend Ironman...' thread) that the _optimal_ strategy is to attack, attack, attack with an aim for a midgame victory. This requires, not the _highest_, but the most cost-effective military tech. Since even the retarded Believers can get to Impact, Probes and Foils with little sweat, any 'build' or 'climb' (the tech tree) strategy will be beaten to the punch by a horde of Impact Rovers, Foil Gunships and +3/+4 Probes (and +25% offense, if you "believe"). Aside from their obvious use - to suppress drones in a newly conquered high pop base - they're great for those Free Marketeers who plan to steal all their tech. Imagine a Free Market / Fundamentalist Believer faction with the equivalent of what someone called "a Shakesphere's Theatre in every city"! Network nodes - why bother? Spend it instead on those Shakes - er, that is, Punishment - Spheres and crank out a huge Free Market army! In fact, I'll experiment with just that in my current Believers game, once they "acquire" the PuniSphere tech.
Piglet	posted 03-17-99 03:51 AM ET I have found that building PSs everywhere mid-game as Yang and then switching to Fundamentalism (loses the police advantgae which is why the PS's come into their own) and Planned (high growth so up population quickly) can be very effective. In the earlier stages don't bother building any psych improvements (use your early +3 police rating to get to lots of size 3/4 cities on transcend). This relies on very active diplomacy early on (be a tech broker between as many factions as possible) and active use of probe teams later on to steal techs. If you can eventually build the Cloning Vats things then really take off! Incidentally as an aside - with Morgan I found the combination of Cloning Vats and Telepathic matrix sent me exponential - this probably applies to any faction more or less, but it can only be obtained quite late on.