posted 03-15-99 09:22 PM ET        

In the face of logical criticism you form your little feminine groups, roll 20-sided dice to see who will order the pizza, pretend you've been around forever, and limit entrance to your group only to idiots who similarly find it difficult to defend their sad game/lives.

Listen, just make a logical argument and I'll listen. Blindly defend Firaxis with your psedo-half logic and Homo-Sexualis (that's the highest ranking in the D-Club) tendencies, and your bound to get hurt.

posted 03-15-99 09:39 PM ET            

So you've been here longer. In all that time, have you made one worthwhile comment?

"Ummm, I think longer wars would be cool! Please love me Brian and Jeff. I'm lonely."

Such comments belong in the worthless pile (I included examples in case you are confused).

You know what, Firaxis might hate people like me, but we make a bigger impact on the future of these games than a whole fleet of you Firaxis Faries and your incessant bending over.

They read your posts and say:

"Fluff, but a real sweet guy!"

They read mine and others and say:

posted 03-15-99 09:57 PM ET            

while you may not like the game, we do.

also, take most of the things said in anything labled "I Club" "D Club" "Z Club" and others with a grain of salt. that's mainly where most of the "pathetic dweebs" go to joke around.

and, we don't bend over. most of our suggestions helped mold the story and the game. we were more polite about it, however.

and the highest ranking is not homo-sexualis.

come join. have fun! goof off! you don't have to make your forum career solely on Firaxis bashing.

besides, if any of us did mean it, it was actually focused more on the newbies who don't post reasoned arguments like you. these newbies post like:
"SMAC DESERVZ TO BE WAREZD!!!!!!!!!!"
"I DONT GET THIS CR*PPY GAME!!!!!!!!"
"I HATE SID SID IS DUMB KILL HIM!!!!"
"U LUZ3RZ HAV NO LIF3!! D13 NAZ1 SCUM!"

posted 03-15-99 09:59 PM ET            

Actually Yin, they probably don't look at your posts at all. That's the problem with posting useless stories - nobody (especially the staff of Firaxis) could be bothered with trying to sift through the crap to find the meaning. Sure, some of the stories are ammusing, however, most of them contain very little in the way of useful points, or as you put it "logical arguments". So, you're shooting yourself in the foot.

However, if you put forward your complaint in a logical, calm manor, they tend to read it, and pay it more respect. The only valid complaint that you have is that Jeffrey dissed you, and hey, everyone has bad days, and you weren't exactly undeserving of it.

So, to give you a logical summary, basically what it comes down is that you complained that the game crashed on your PC. Jeffrey explained that it was a windows/drivers problem. You said that was crap, and that Firaxis should be doing something about such unexplained (to your view) errors. Jeffrey told you to grow up. You proceeded to bash Firaxis. People (like me, yeah) responded, backing Firaxis. You said we were talking down to you. You parodied us, and anyone else you felt annoyed at. Firaxis ignored you as far as we can tell. We defended ourselves.

You parodied us some more. Victor organised a tongue-in-cheek group to attack you. You parodied him and told him off. We defend. You attack. We defend.

Hmm, now tell me that you don't find the whole process a tad, um, stupid.

Keep it up if you want. But don't fool yourself into thinking that Firaxis will pay any attention to you just because you make halfway decent (and halfway funny) parodies of people. I feel badly for anybody who experiences crashes in this game, I really do. But your way will not change much at all. What might change things is a constructive, logical argument. Which so far, you have failed to deliver.

So funny, you ask for a logical argument, without providing one yourself...

posted 03-15-99 10:10 PM ET            

If I'm not the target, then GREAT!

If I am, then GREAT!

posted 03-15-99 10:45 PM ET            

The chalk has been drawn across the playground, the little groups of boys are posturing and threatening each other, and the teachers really don't give a damn.

Yin is starting to believe his own press, while the veterans (well, some veterans) are intent on clositering themselves in the NonSMAC thread. Undertaker is clinging to Yin's skirts in the same way Yin accuses others of clinging to firaxis. May I point out that only the Transcend Ironmen seem to be contributing anything useful at the moment? (Go read Analyst's dicussion of the faction A.I, for instance).

Which is the point of these forums. YOU can make a difference to the game - if you have a point to make and can make it without insulting others (apparently easier said than done). If you find a bug, identify an A.I weakness, have a great idea, or solve a problem, post it. It all will help. And if the game doesn't work at all for you, believe me, you have our sympathy.

Yes, THE GAME HAS PROBLEMS. This point has been made. Accepted, even. JKM has told me the echoing sound issue is a bug. Bugs can be fixed. Balance can be fixed - I'M doing it for myself - this is one of the advantages of the plain text rules file in the program. If it plays any better, I'll let you know. I expect you to do the same for me. Because ultimately, thats the most effective thing you can do until firaxis finishes patch 3.0. It's about the only thing you can do.

Well, other than messing around on the forums like a gang of five year olds. But I'm pretty sure that won't really help.

[And finally, if you sell the game now, then please don't feel left out when we're all raving about how great SMAC turned out to be and you're sick of blasting away the crap A.I in CTP (for example).]

posted 03-15-99 10:46 PM ET            

DEVIL'S ADVOCATE,
Undertaker
(Revolution)

posted 03-15-99 11:22 PM ET            

Brian wrote me a nice e-mail the other day trying to figure out what's wrong with my system.

So, in fact, he is watching the board--even my posts.

posted 03-16-99 12:36 AM ET            

- Note though that I didn't see whatever it was he posted in the Bugs forum that got Jeffrey so annoyed...

posted 03-16-99 12:46 AM ET            

Post it now. "No logic"--well, I oughtta...

Actually, I don't know what's so illogical about wating a game with better graphics and gameplay. That's what I have been fighting for here (minus a few discussions about America: What Is It To You?, and Cars Of The 70's and 80's: Is The Computer Industry Taking Us For A Ride?).

If it's not logical to want those things and push in my way to keep that the focus of this board, then, BG, they teach a different logic class in Australia.

Anyway, sorry to see you're so busy. Try this:

posted 03-16-99 03:27 AM ET            

Oh, don't worry, baiting you is just no fun anymore, nor dragging myself to the level of posting unfounded conclusions...

posted 03-16-99 09:00 AM ET            

Well, the post is all deleted. I guess I will go back to taking myself not so seriously again... It's more rewarding.

posted 03-16-99 02:26 PM ET            

PS. Why wasn't this in the Off-topic forum?

posted 03-16-99 02:36 PM ET            

As for Yin26- Freddz: Sarcacsm is funny. Therefore, Yin26s Insult competition with some forum vets is not sarcasm. Voil�.

posted 03-16-99 03:57 PM ET            

Imran: Valid arguments... I guess(have to admit I always thought Imran as a nice guy)

tOFfGI:

Sorry for thinking Yin's post as funny. Actually, I can't really see why anyone would be sooo upset by it: it's really too abstract to ring true, don't you think? Or do you think otherwise? Voila? At least he doesn't mention names.

"As for Newbies:" (listen you too Imran)

Well, this newbie talk just strikes me as condescending trash-talk. Next time you write a post, if you want any respect at all, remember that some of us newbies actually have created games, have won invention competitions, have won championships in chess or whatever, have good writing ability, played more games than you and/or given ideas in this game that in fact have been implemented.

posted 03-16-99 04:33 PM ET            

"Sorry for thinking Yin's post as funny. Actually, I can't really see why anyone would be sooo upset by it: it's really too abstract to ring true, don't you think? Or do you think otherwise? Voila?" "At least he doesn't mention names."

I am not sooo upset by it. I'm just stating a fact. Therefore your argument has a fallacy (false premise).

"At least he doesn't mention names."

Oh, but he does. Not in this topic, mayhap, but others he has directed straight at various people. How may times do I have to repeat that Flaming and Personal Vendettas have no place here?

"Well, this newbie talk just strikes me as condescending trash-talk. Next time you write a post, if you want any respect at all, remember that some of us newbies actually have created games, have won invention competitions, have won championships in chess or whatever, have good writing ability, played more games than you and/or given ideas in this game that in fact have been implemented."

Who is talking down now? Who is trying to make others look bad? As far as I see, this is rather an argument ad Hominem: These facts may well be true, but that doesn't say a word about the people actually involved.

"It's good to see that you do not talk of respect at least, tOFfGI, cause then I would have a good reason to flame you. This newbie attitude has shone through a long time in some of you, don't you think it's a bit immature to continue with it?"

First you go on saying Newbies are smarter than veterans, and then you accuse the veterans (Why do we have two distinct groups anyway?) of having a newbie attitude. Does that mean that they "have created games, have won invention competitions, have won championships in chess or whatever, have good writing ability, played more games than you and/or given ideas in this game that in fact have been implemented"?

Oh, and, there are no good reasons to flame people. Not even those who talk of respect (rather ridiculous patriarchal argument, have to go with you on that: People should be judged how they are as people and not on their post count.).

posted 03-16-99 04:59 PM ET            

You said: "Sarcacsm is funny." I said I thought it funny(I admit it to be sharp though), your own premise have just bitten you.

""At least he doesn't mention names."

Oh, but he does. Not in this topic, mayhap(which topic did you think I was talking about?), but others he has directed straight at various people. How may times do I have to repeat that Flaming and Personal Vendettas have no place here?""

I was talking about this topic, and thought it good he didn't mention names.

First you go on saying Newbies are smarter than veterans(where did you read that, you should stop making things up)

"(Why do we have two distinct groups anyway?)"

Let me remind you it's that attitude of grouping I have tried to discuss with you, but if you want a theory on why we have 2 groups, go into the off-topic forum and read a couple of posts. That should give you a clue, I hear old timers hang out there. You old timers have brought both words up long ago and you especially seem to use them in all your posts. Why do you use them all the time if you don't want a grouping?

"How many fallacies of logic was that? I count five." Counting this one? Five, but then I did't care to comment your last statement.

posted 03-16-99 05:53 PM ET            

tOFfGI does have a point: often, you are extremely condescending, insulting, and crude; is it any wonder that you are not regarded as one of the "good" newbies? I am certain that you have many viable points, and interesting ones at that. However, how many people are going to read your threads? Most of us are turned off by the immature name calling that you seem to revel in so much. Continuing like this won't get you appreciated here.

posted 03-16-99 06:03 PM ET            

Hold on guys. Calm down! This is why many vets don't want to come back here. They get into vicious fights with newbies (not to be condesceding) and everyone decides that newbies suck, except those that come to the Off-topic and try to fit in. Come on, now. Lets make this forum a melting pot of SMAC players (those that still have the game and are saying something consructive - [hint, hint] Undertaker).

posted 03-16-99 06:42 PM ET            

What name-calling do you mean? Smacophants? Newbies? Old timers? Where? I know I have used the word Smacophant in one thread. But was I the one starting to use newbies in a condescending way? Was I the one who started using old timers in a way that can only be described as putting oneself on a throne? Was I the one attacking for that others used the word newbies in a condescending way? Explain yourself please when you say I revel in it... I'm sure you have a point...

And, oh yes, I have given constructive critisicm which have been sneered at. Do not doubt that. Not all has, of course. Some of the ideas have been bad, some have been good. Some of them have been accepted. But in this case, I could bother less about myself, I have from the beginning defended everyones freedom to speak their complaints and ideas even if they don't know anything about programming or even if they just want to post an outrageous idea, something that I have felt have been missing in this forum...

"Simply put: if you want to go insult someone, go to some place where they give generic flames. These Forums are here to give Firaxis CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM, not INSULTS BECAUSE THEY MADE A GAME YOU DON'T LIKE."

I get it without the caps. It sounds like an insult... And I have read a few of your posts too Q3, and you must consider that I may not like all of them or how you put things. Should I say you should leave this forum just because I may consider you of no use to Firaxis? No, that ain't my way and has never been.... Btw, I gave the game 85%, that ain't too bad.

posted 03-17-99 06:11 PM ET            

Heh. I just wanted to see how many times I could type that without making a mistake...