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Author Topic:   Cloning Vats Unbalanced?

CEO Alandrion posted 02-28-99 08:12 AM ET
It seems to me that the Cloning Vats secret project, although late game, is essentially a game winner. If you have 30+ bases, you will easily be able to win a diplomatic victory within 15 years of setting this puppy down. Within 15 years you will have maxed all your cities at 16 population (more if you happen to have Hab Dome) Your sheer weight of population generating resources is enough to shoot your faction off the power chart almost instantly. I realize this is a late game project, but seems a bit strong to me.
Any other thoughts on this incredible secret project? When I play on Thinker/Transcend I always find myself racing for it, simply because I know any chances of victory will vanish if someone else builds it.
-CEO Alandrion
sandworm posted 02-28-99 08:39 AM ET
It seemed to be a big deal to me too, but there's a drone problem that often comes with this. Still, if you manage your drones carefully and defend your cities you've won.
You'll have a ridiculous number of council votes, often more than all the other factions combined. Put some talents into engineering and your tech takes off, your income is huge and you could probably buy a transcendence victory outright on the first turn its available, even if it does cost 25-30k in energy.
The other limitation, you need to have terraformed the terrain around your cities to feed these people, or really love the taste of fungus (Gaians). Mmmm. Portabello mushroom burger with a side of deep fried mindworms
CEO Alandrion posted 02-28-99 06:40 PM ET
Well generally I just build like 10-15 Orbital Food Platforms and then you are ready for a major boom regardless of what kind of terraforming your cities have done. Now I only usually play on Librarian difficulty, but it seems to me that the game is virtually over for whoever gets it. Hmmm.... maybe Firaxis should balance it a bit better?
-CEO Alandrion
JaimeWolf posted 02-28-99 11:37 PM ET
It's possible to get the same effect through social choices. Democratic + Planned + Eudaimonic = +6 growth gives you a Population Boom!.
On the unbalancing side. Anything giving you -GROWTH is a meaningless penalty once you have the Cloning Vats.
Maitreia posted 03-01-99 03:18 AM ET
Hey JaimeWolf,

In fact it's possible to get to +6 growth without even getting to Eudamonia. With social settings of Democratic and Planned, and with a *Children's Creche* built (which gives +2 growth among other things), a city can go into population boom quite early in the game.
I really really hope that Firaxis will change this... as you can easily get size 14 cities by mid-game or so. I find it to be *very* unbalancing. I think that having +6 growth equal to a 60 % faster growth rate is powerful enough, having a pop. BOOM! every turn is too much!

Maitreia
Profitable Jack posted 03-01-99 06:45 AM ET
The ultimate UN-BALANCER is building the Telepathic Matrix before the Cloning Vats. Your drones will never riot.
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Author	Topic: Cloning Vats Unbalanced?
CEO Alandrion	posted 02-28-99 08:12 AM ET It seems to me that the Cloning Vats secret project, although late game, is essentially a game winner. If you have 30+ bases, you will easily be able to win a diplomatic victory within 15 years of setting this puppy down. Within 15 years you will have maxed all your cities at 16 population (more if you happen to have Hab Dome) Your sheer weight of population generating resources is enough to shoot your faction off the power chart almost instantly. I realize this is a late game project, but seems a bit strong to me. Any other thoughts on this incredible secret project? When I play on Thinker/Transcend I always find myself racing for it, simply because I know any chances of victory will vanish if someone else builds it. -CEO Alandrion
sandworm	posted 02-28-99 08:39 AM ET It seemed to be a big deal to me too, but there's a drone problem that often comes with this. Still, if you manage your drones carefully and defend your cities you've won. You'll have a ridiculous number of council votes, often more than all the other factions combined. Put some talents into engineering and your tech takes off, your income is huge and you could probably buy a transcendence victory outright on the first turn its available, even if it does cost 25-30k in energy. The other limitation, you need to have terraformed the terrain around your cities to feed these people, or really love the taste of fungus (Gaians). Mmmm. Portabello mushroom burger with a side of deep fried mindworms
CEO Alandrion	posted 02-28-99 06:40 PM ET Well generally I just build like 10-15 Orbital Food Platforms and then you are ready for a major boom regardless of what kind of terraforming your cities have done. Now I only usually play on Librarian difficulty, but it seems to me that the game is virtually over for whoever gets it. Hmmm.... maybe Firaxis should balance it a bit better? -CEO Alandrion
JaimeWolf	posted 02-28-99 11:37 PM ET It's possible to get the same effect through social choices. Democratic + Planned + Eudaimonic = +6 growth gives you a Population Boom!. On the unbalancing side. Anything giving you -GROWTH is a meaningless penalty once you have the Cloning Vats.
Maitreia	posted 03-01-99 03:18 AM ET Hey JaimeWolf, In fact it's possible to get to +6 growth without even getting to Eudamonia. With social settings of Democratic and Planned, and with a Children's Creche built (which gives +2 growth among other things), a city can go into population boom quite early in the game. I really really hope that Firaxis will change this... as you can easily get size 14 cities by mid-game or so. I find it to be very unbalancing. I think that having +6 growth equal to a 60 % faster growth rate is powerful enough, having a pop. BOOM! every turn is too much! Maitreia
Profitable Jack	posted 03-01-99 06:45 AM ET The ultimate UN-BALANCER is building the Telepathic Matrix before the Cloning Vats. Your drones will never riot.