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Author Topic:   More Info On Surrender

George posted 02-24-99 08:49 PM ET
Not being a unresonable person, one of my favorate way to win is to getting the other guys to surrender. Yet the menu hardly describe how a surrendered faction behaves.
Here are my questions?
-. Whether or not a faction can un-surrender if they sense weakness in its master?
-. If yes, under what circumstances?
-. Looks like they can still fight wars with an other faction I am at peace with, sometimes even one of my other subjects. What's with that? Once I ask Santiago to stop their war against the Gaians after she surrenders. She said she's been paid to fight and can get out of the "obligation".
-. When they surrender, they never forgive my loan. Once I have to renouce the pact and evadicate them just so that I don't have to paid the loan. Maybe loan forgiveness should be part of the surrender package.
Any other info on surrender will be greatly appriciated. I hope Firaxis will come around to provide more info on this subject.
George
GreatNate posted 02-24-99 09:41 PM ET
Surrendered factions are able to break their pact with you, when you commit an atrocity. Last game as the hive, I had the Gaians and the Spartans surrendered to me, when I decided I didn't want to waste time invading the Peacekeeper's heavily defended but small island. Four fusion planetbuster eliminated the island, I just wish that the graphics would make the area glow after I finished with it :-)
At any rate, my victims immediatly broke the pact in horror and disgust, and I crushed them under my hovertank skirts. Frankly, I think that a faction that surrenders should _never_ be able to break pact, for any reason other than an attack by your forces.
Brother Greg posted 02-24-99 09:53 PM ET
IIRC, after they surrendur they only break the pact if you treat them really badly, like demanding cities all the time, etc. Never happened to me yet, but I heard that from one of the beta testers from memory...
And yeah, they seem to still keep their own diplomacy up. The only difference that it makes is that they never break the pact with you (unless you make them). Other than that and the fact you get a scoring bonus, they seem to be exactly the same as any other faction you have a pact with.
HunterPDX posted 02-24-99 09:54 PM ET
Actually, I discovered (much to my manifest disgust) that they CAN unsurrender. I pushed Yang into a corner playing the Peacekeepers, he gave up (actually surprised me; I didn't think he was bleeding THAT much). Then I turned my mind to other matters, and later he absolutely SWARMED ME with an army of Probes he had been building up over a couple decades of peace. Stole nearly all my technology in about 3 turns. By this time, I was working on Transcendance, and decided to let him have his phyrric victory, but still...
...the sheer treachery of it was really amusing! Next time, I'll just squash the creep.
Kurt
"The only one I despise more than Yang is Miriam"
cousLee posted 02-24-99 09:57 PM ET
IMHO
yea, but come. if a faction surrenders that should be it. no breaking the pact, no STEALING my tech, and I should be able to pick which governor the AI uses (must be same Gov at each base)
Scrubby posted 02-25-99 12:08 AM ET
I find it funny that everyone complains about the AI being not "human" (good) enough when this "unsurrendering" thing is quite the novel trick. I salute any AI that can perform feats of treachery equal to a human.
MrSparkle posted 02-25-99 12:21 PM ET
Pardon my confusion..
what's all this talk of 'surrendering?' I can only get a faction that I'm feuding with to sign a Blood Truce to halt the war. What am I missing???
Moonpie posted 02-25-99 12:57 PM ET
Yes, you can get the enemy to surrender and they will act like your minions. I normally play with Noble intent. And 96% of my games, I remain "noble" the entire game. I made yang surrender and didn't ask for much from him since. Later he turned on me. I don't think I provoked him, so I don't necessarily think you have to provoke them to get them to "unsurrender".
Just my experience. Also, I have only had that happen once. What are the parameters needed to force an enemy to "surrender" or is it a random occurance?
nlyn
George posted 02-25-99 02:57 PM ET
Easiest trick to make some body surrender:
Amass a huge army and target a faction's biggest cities and the HQ. If you can in one term drop their population and might significantly, There is a very high chance that they will surrender.
Once the might threshold is passed and they view your might as uncontestable, and you refuse all other diplomatic overtures, they will surrender. I once even have Santiago and UoP surrender without even attacking them, just being the biggest bully on the street, declare war, and watch them beg.
In the mean time, good hunting.
George
will posted 02-25-99 03:03 PM ET
HunterPDX & cousLee: I believe that allowing surrendered factions to steal technology from their overlords was a bug that was fixed in the first patch, so it shouldn't be a problem any more. I've had several factions surrender to me, including Yang, and never had any trouble with treachery. If you're playing for a diplomatic win, a strong healthy surrendered ally is an invaluable partner.
HunterPDX posted 02-27-99 04:57 PM ET
I did have the patch installed, and he still declared Vendetta after he had surrendered and ripped me off blind.
Not that I am complaining, mind you. As someone else says, I think that the AI that can duplicate human treachery is a wonderful thing. Annoying, but wonderful.
Hunter
MrSparkle posted 02-27-99 06:08 PM ET
George-

Thnx for the tip chief! That tactic works very nicely.
PS- moonpie, nice name reference
TheHelperMonkey posted 02-27-99 08:55 PM ET
To make a faction surreder do the following steps:
*refuse their offer for a blood truce
*refuse their offer of a tech or money
*If you are lucky they will say that tehy surrender, so you click on "very well, but you must swear a pact to serve me button".
*Now he is surredered.
"I declare our pact of sisterhood full of droids, Lady Deidre!"
cousLee posted 02-27-99 09:27 PM ET
nope, it happened with the patch installed. the surrendered faction was the Morganites. I think i was playing either spartans, or UoP. and i fell out of my chair laughing the first time i saw the "full of droids" line.
Glak posted 03-01-99 03:22 PM ET
I noticed a few of you saying that your slaves steal tech from you. That seems kind of odd to me, because I just outright give them all my tech. Giving them tech really helps. If you are ahead in tech then they are probably just researching things that you already know. If you share tech then they will research new stuff for you. It also makes them like you more. In my last game I had three minions and it was great. They will go to war for you, share tech, vote for you, and do other stuff.
George posted 03-01-99 06:06 PM ET
One more tip:
If the Lal have surrender to you, give him a few cities. You will have more votes in the planetary consil.
BTW:
Sometimes, in both demo, version 1, and the patch, I have everyone surrendered to me, but the game won't declare my victory. I have to wait until the "supreme leader" option is available. It only happen from time to time (in demo too). I believe is either that I have too many guys surrender to me (more than 3, the manual saids it's OK thought) or I give them cities as gifts. Maybe the game think if I give them gift, they are no longer my subject. Any comments?
George
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Author	Topic: More Info On Surrender
George	posted 02-24-99 08:49 PM ET Not being a unresonable person, one of my favorate way to win is to getting the other guys to surrender. Yet the menu hardly describe how a surrendered faction behaves. Here are my questions? -. Whether or not a faction can un-surrender if they sense weakness in its master? -. If yes, under what circumstances? -. Looks like they can still fight wars with an other faction I am at peace with, sometimes even one of my other subjects. What's with that? Once I ask Santiago to stop their war against the Gaians after she surrenders. She said she's been paid to fight and can get out of the "obligation". -. When they surrender, they never forgive my loan. Once I have to renouce the pact and evadicate them just so that I don't have to paid the loan. Maybe loan forgiveness should be part of the surrender package. Any other info on surrender will be greatly appriciated. I hope Firaxis will come around to provide more info on this subject. George
GreatNate	posted 02-24-99 09:41 PM ET Surrendered factions are able to break their pact with you, when you commit an atrocity. Last game as the hive, I had the Gaians and the Spartans surrendered to me, when I decided I didn't want to waste time invading the Peacekeeper's heavily defended but small island. Four fusion planetbuster eliminated the island, I just wish that the graphics would make the area glow after I finished with it :-) At any rate, my victims immediatly broke the pact in horror and disgust, and I crushed them under my hovertank skirts. Frankly, I think that a faction that surrenders should _never_ be able to break pact, for any reason other than an attack by your forces.
Brother Greg	posted 02-24-99 09:53 PM ET IIRC, after they surrendur they only break the pact if you treat them really badly, like demanding cities all the time, etc. Never happened to me yet, but I heard that from one of the beta testers from memory... And yeah, they seem to still keep their own diplomacy up. The only difference that it makes is that they never break the pact with you (unless you make them). Other than that and the fact you get a scoring bonus, they seem to be exactly the same as any other faction you have a pact with.
HunterPDX	posted 02-24-99 09:54 PM ET Actually, I discovered (much to my manifest disgust) that they CAN unsurrender. I pushed Yang into a corner playing the Peacekeepers, he gave up (actually surprised me; I didn't think he was bleeding THAT much). Then I turned my mind to other matters, and later he absolutely SWARMED ME with an army of Probes he had been building up over a couple decades of peace. Stole nearly all my technology in about 3 turns. By this time, I was working on Transcendance, and decided to let him have his phyrric victory, but still... ...the sheer treachery of it was really amusing! Next time, I'll just squash the creep. Kurt "The only one I despise more than Yang is Miriam"
cousLee	posted 02-24-99 09:57 PM ET IMHO yea, but come. if a faction surrenders that should be it. no breaking the pact, no STEALING my tech, and I should be able to pick which governor the AI uses (must be same Gov at each base)
Scrubby	posted 02-25-99 12:08 AM ET I find it funny that everyone complains about the AI being not "human" (good) enough when this "unsurrendering" thing is quite the novel trick. I salute any AI that can perform feats of treachery equal to a human.
MrSparkle	posted 02-25-99 12:21 PM ET Pardon my confusion.. what's all this talk of 'surrendering?' I can only get a faction that I'm feuding with to sign a Blood Truce to halt the war. What am I missing???
Moonpie	posted 02-25-99 12:57 PM ET Yes, you can get the enemy to surrender and they will act like your minions. I normally play with Noble intent. And 96% of my games, I remain "noble" the entire game. I made yang surrender and didn't ask for much from him since. Later he turned on me. I don't think I provoked him, so I don't necessarily think you have to provoke them to get them to "unsurrender". Just my experience. Also, I have only had that happen once. What are the parameters needed to force an enemy to "surrender" or is it a random occurance? nlyn
George	posted 02-25-99 02:57 PM ET Easiest trick to make some body surrender: Amass a huge army and target a faction's biggest cities and the HQ. If you can in one term drop their population and might significantly, There is a very high chance that they will surrender. Once the might threshold is passed and they view your might as uncontestable, and you refuse all other diplomatic overtures, they will surrender. I once even have Santiago and UoP surrender without even attacking them, just being the biggest bully on the street, declare war, and watch them beg. In the mean time, good hunting. George
will	posted 02-25-99 03:03 PM ET HunterPDX & cousLee: I believe that allowing surrendered factions to steal technology from their overlords was a bug that was fixed in the first patch, so it shouldn't be a problem any more. I've had several factions surrender to me, including Yang, and never had any trouble with treachery. If you're playing for a diplomatic win, a strong healthy surrendered ally is an invaluable partner.
HunterPDX	posted 02-27-99 04:57 PM ET I did have the patch installed, and he still declared Vendetta after he had surrendered and ripped me off blind. Not that I am complaining, mind you. As someone else says, I think that the AI that can duplicate human treachery is a wonderful thing. Annoying, but wonderful. Hunter
MrSparkle	posted 02-27-99 06:08 PM ET George- Thnx for the tip chief! That tactic works very nicely. PS- moonpie, nice name reference
TheHelperMonkey	posted 02-27-99 08:55 PM ET To make a faction surreder do the following steps: refuse their offer for a blood truce refuse their offer of a tech or money If you are lucky they will say that tehy surrender, so you click on "very well, but you must swear a pact to serve me button". Now he is surredered. "I declare our pact of sisterhood full of droids, Lady Deidre!"
cousLee	posted 02-27-99 09:27 PM ET nope, it happened with the patch installed. the surrendered faction was the Morganites. I think i was playing either spartans, or UoP. and i fell out of my chair laughing the first time i saw the "full of droids" line.
Glak	posted 03-01-99 03:22 PM ET I noticed a few of you saying that your slaves steal tech from you. That seems kind of odd to me, because I just outright give them all my tech. Giving them tech really helps. If you are ahead in tech then they are probably just researching things that you already know. If you share tech then they will research new stuff for you. It also makes them like you more. In my last game I had three minions and it was great. They will go to war for you, share tech, vote for you, and do other stuff.
George	posted 03-01-99 06:06 PM ET One more tip: If the Lal have surrender to you, give him a few cities. You will have more votes in the planetary consil. BTW: Sometimes, in both demo, version 1, and the patch, I have everyone surrendered to me, but the game won't declare my victory. I have to wait until the "supreme leader" option is available. It only happen from time to time (in demo too). I believe is either that I have too many guys surrender to me (more than 3, the manual saids it's OK thought) or I give them cities as gifts. Maybe the game think if I give them gift, they are no longer my subject. Any comments? George