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Author Topic:   AI Planet Buster Cheat?

Wehrmacht posted 02-21-99 11:02 AM ET
Well, I had composed a nice, long, detailed post.....but it was F------g deleted when I tried to submit. (password incorrect, but who would know, all I see are stars)
So, to quote the priest in Space Balls.
"Heres the short-short version"
The computer seems to be able to seriously cheat using nukes.
I built a quantum PB of my own. Moved it to a nearby city (for a carrier trip across the ocean for a rendezvous with three big University Cities).
That city goes up the very next turn to Yangs first 'primitive' fusion buster.
Normally, no big deal, I fed him a few missile meals over the last several turns. However he seemed to have no cities within range of that particular city. (I kept all of Yangs sorry- missile-base-excuse for a city incursions away. Further, none of his allies were anywhere near me....and no land for airbases either...long since rendered underwater by my own nuclear fire. Carrier, perhaps, but still, what were the chances that he would hit my nuke on the one turn it happened to be refueling.)
Well, I restored, and moved my nuke to another city. BOOM, and this new city was rendered unto dust.
Another restore, this time moving the Pokey Bomb all the way to the far corner of my empire, where Yang could not possibly touch it. But, no good, this third city meets the same fate. My Quantum buster was marked for death or something.
Frustrated, I fire up the editor and 'take over' Yangs faction to see where the hell that FPB was coming from.
Just as I had suspected....no sneaky carriers, and none of his bases within range of any of my major cities. His furthest outpost was about 14 squares from my futhest outpost. Further, his SOLE PB was located about 40-50 squares away from the locations he cratered 'on that same turn', well out of range of my 20 square nuclear capacities.
So, I am quite annoyed. In conclusion, the computer probably 'knows' the combined attack-defense factors of a bases' garrison...allowing him to easily target a juicy 99-rated offense PB. Second, his missiles can target any city of yours - regardless of the quite limited PB range.
This is very bad. My pre Orbital Pod PB defense strategy is - NO ENEMY BASES WITHIN PB RANGE - and it should work, but this disgusting cheat renders my rational 'Cuba' strategy more or less irrelevant.
Has anyone else experienced this?
How can one combat this, short of abstaining from *fun* nuclear war and/or cheating?
This could potentially be a game ruiner for me as I rarely get to Orbital Defense Pod technology within the time limit of the game.
My style:
Morganite
Pursue industry/economy full 'borehole'
Slash and Burn fungus a priority.
Securing a continent is another.
Fight off TONS of worms.
Terraform constantly to keep above rising water levels. (Laughing while other empires sink into the ocean)
Make Friends for tech until PB's and then all bets are off.
-Wehrmacht-
Zoetrope posted 02-22-99 09:56 AM ET
I take it that Yang doesn't have Orbital Insertion technology?
And that he isn't using Drop PBs, or Drop Transports with PBs on board (supposing either of those is possible)?
According to the manual, Drop units can only be dropped once per turn, but I can bounce mine as often as I like, taking my troops clear round Planet if there are cities to receive them (otherwise their cumulative damage from loss of fuel and consequent ground collisions - ouch! - limits their survivable range).
Zoetrope posted 02-22-99 10:03 AM ET
Oh, the other thing is that I've watched Yang closely in my current game, and every unit he's sent has travelled according to the rules. (It's fun seeing him move all those Jets from city A to city B, then back again when city B is facing ruination from my chopper buildup. He seems to be able to read my intentions - and he can hardly cheat at that, unless there really is PSI. Creepy!)
I play at the lower levels of difficulty. So if you're playing at higher levels, then maybe the AI uses an instant travel cheat, though Brian has repeatedly said that it doesn't. Have you seen it use this cheat for any units other than PBs?
Btw, I've often maxed out the tech tree, but neither I nor a CP has ever used a PB. Maybe the CPs don't use them unless you do?
MrSmily posted 02-22-99 05:43 PM ET
you cant put abilitys on missles.
so no drop pod PB
Fragboy posted 02-22-99 07:34 PM ET
Maybe he had a PSI gate in one of his citys?
Fiben posted 02-24-99 03:41 PM ET
Just a thought, but could he be purchasing your own PBs with probe teams and blowing them where they sit?? Now wouldn't that be nasty.
MrSmily posted 02-24-99 04:37 PM ET
just a thought about air units in general.
anyone else think they should crash and not just dissapear? like a plane runs out of full and crashes into a base/farm/anything and blows up, doing some damage to the unit that it landed on. and for missles just have them blow up.
George posted 03-01-99 07:27 PM ET
Possibility 1:
Yang have infiltrated your datalink so he know where your PB is. He also have obital insertion to put his PB where your PB is.
Possibility 2:
One of Yang's allied give him a PB to be used on you. I once have spartans surrendered to me, ask her to declare war on Lal, and then give her a PB in the city closest to Lal. The result, shall we said, is rather interesting. And I remain my virtuous self.
George
SnowFire posted 03-01-99 10:22 PM ET
Folks, I posted this on the newsgroups awhile ago after I saw it, and Brian issued a mea culpa. The AI really does have no range checks on their Planet Busters, and he promised to fix it in 3.0.
George posted 03-04-99 05:14 PM ET
If that's the case, conventional missiles may have the same problem too.
Mahatma posted 03-04-99 05:44 PM ET
Yup, the computer cheats with conventional missiles to. One of my bases lying like half to world away from a yang city got constantly pounded with conventional missiles. I don�t think this is the case with airoplanes though. Also isn�t singularity conventional missilis a little bit to good?
MrSmily posted 03-04-99 05:55 PM ET
anyone else think missles should be able to target base facaltys?(sp?)
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Author	Topic: AI Planet Buster Cheat?
Wehrmacht	posted 02-21-99 11:02 AM ET Well, I had composed a nice, long, detailed post.....but it was F------g deleted when I tried to submit. (password incorrect, but who would know, all I see are stars) So, to quote the priest in Space Balls. "Heres the short-short version" The computer seems to be able to seriously cheat using nukes. I built a quantum PB of my own. Moved it to a nearby city (for a carrier trip across the ocean for a rendezvous with three big University Cities). That city goes up the very next turn to Yangs first 'primitive' fusion buster. Normally, no big deal, I fed him a few missile meals over the last several turns. However he seemed to have no cities within range of that particular city. (I kept all of Yangs sorry- missile-base-excuse for a city incursions away. Further, none of his allies were anywhere near me....and no land for airbases either...long since rendered underwater by my own nuclear fire. Carrier, perhaps, but still, what were the chances that he would hit my nuke on the one turn it happened to be refueling.) Well, I restored, and moved my nuke to another city. BOOM, and this new city was rendered unto dust. Another restore, this time moving the Pokey Bomb all the way to the far corner of my empire, where Yang could not possibly touch it. But, no good, this third city meets the same fate. My Quantum buster was marked for death or something. Frustrated, I fire up the editor and 'take over' Yangs faction to see where the hell that FPB was coming from. Just as I had suspected....no sneaky carriers, and none of his bases within range of any of my major cities. His furthest outpost was about 14 squares from my futhest outpost. Further, his SOLE PB was located about 40-50 squares away from the locations he cratered 'on that same turn', well out of range of my 20 square nuclear capacities. So, I am quite annoyed. In conclusion, the computer probably 'knows' the combined attack-defense factors of a bases' garrison...allowing him to easily target a juicy 99-rated offense PB. Second, his missiles can target any city of yours - regardless of the quite limited PB range. This is very bad. My pre Orbital Pod PB defense strategy is - NO ENEMY BASES WITHIN PB RANGE - and it should work, but this disgusting cheat renders my rational 'Cuba' strategy more or less irrelevant. Has anyone else experienced this? How can one combat this, short of abstaining from fun nuclear war and/or cheating? This could potentially be a game ruiner for me as I rarely get to Orbital Defense Pod technology within the time limit of the game. My style: Morganite Pursue industry/economy full 'borehole' Slash and Burn fungus a priority. Securing a continent is another. Fight off TONS of worms. Terraform constantly to keep above rising water levels. (Laughing while other empires sink into the ocean) Make Friends for tech until PB's and then all bets are off. -Wehrmacht-
Zoetrope	posted 02-22-99 09:56 AM ET I take it that Yang doesn't have Orbital Insertion technology? And that he isn't using Drop PBs, or Drop Transports with PBs on board (supposing either of those is possible)? According to the manual, Drop units can only be dropped once per turn, but I can bounce mine as often as I like, taking my troops clear round Planet if there are cities to receive them (otherwise their cumulative damage from loss of fuel and consequent ground collisions - ouch! - limits their survivable range).
Zoetrope	posted 02-22-99 10:03 AM ET Oh, the other thing is that I've watched Yang closely in my current game, and every unit he's sent has travelled according to the rules. (It's fun seeing him move all those Jets from city A to city B, then back again when city B is facing ruination from my chopper buildup. He seems to be able to read my intentions - and he can hardly cheat at that, unless there really is PSI. Creepy!) I play at the lower levels of difficulty. So if you're playing at higher levels, then maybe the AI uses an instant travel cheat, though Brian has repeatedly said that it doesn't. Have you seen it use this cheat for any units other than PBs? Btw, I've often maxed out the tech tree, but neither I nor a CP has ever used a PB. Maybe the CPs don't use them unless you do?
MrSmily	posted 02-22-99 05:43 PM ET you cant put abilitys on missles. so no drop pod PB
Fragboy	posted 02-22-99 07:34 PM ET Maybe he had a PSI gate in one of his citys?
Fiben	posted 02-24-99 03:41 PM ET Just a thought, but could he be purchasing your own PBs with probe teams and blowing them where they sit?? Now wouldn't that be nasty.
MrSmily	posted 02-24-99 04:37 PM ET just a thought about air units in general. anyone else think they should crash and not just dissapear? like a plane runs out of full and crashes into a base/farm/anything and blows up, doing some damage to the unit that it landed on. and for missles just have them blow up.
George	posted 03-01-99 07:27 PM ET Possibility 1: Yang have infiltrated your datalink so he know where your PB is. He also have obital insertion to put his PB where your PB is. Possibility 2: One of Yang's allied give him a PB to be used on you. I once have spartans surrendered to me, ask her to declare war on Lal, and then give her a PB in the city closest to Lal. The result, shall we said, is rather interesting. And I remain my virtuous self. George
SnowFire	posted 03-01-99 10:22 PM ET Folks, I posted this on the newsgroups awhile ago after I saw it, and Brian issued a mea culpa. The AI really does have no range checks on their Planet Busters, and he promised to fix it in 3.0.
George	posted 03-04-99 05:14 PM ET If that's the case, conventional missiles may have the same problem too.
Mahatma	posted 03-04-99 05:44 PM ET Yup, the computer cheats with conventional missiles to. One of my bases lying like half to world away from a yang city got constantly pounded with conventional missiles. I don�t think this is the case with airoplanes though. Also isn�t singularity conventional missilis a little bit to good?
MrSmily	posted 03-04-99 05:55 PM ET anyone else think missles should be able to target base facaltys?(sp?)