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Author Topic:   Lets talk about greedy

CEO Bernard posted 02-18-99 02:03 PM ET
Perhaps the only other thing (see Move your army ... please? thread) I dislike about SMAC (and Civ 2 for that matter) is the insane offers the computer makes, at least with such regularity. I could see the occasional, "Could you please give me that <tech> because I am such a nice guy?" but every single conversation you have with the computer they want something for nothing (which hey I can understand) but when they don't get it they get mad (in my opinion solely, excessively so) ... on the other hand if you ask for something for free you rarely (not once for me yet) get it, which again makes sense. I guess my question is, why have the computer have such grossly unrealistic expectations from unreasonable requests? I can see a slight change in the relationship (i.e. from disappointment) but it seems (key word) that the computer honestly expects you to hand over free stuff everytime it asks for it (and then go to war with you because they won't move their cursed armies out of my land!!).
*sigh* What a CEO to do?
Answer ... complain to the makers of the game. What say you, Firaxis, any chance of adding a little slider switch to adjust this or something as an option?
CEO Bernard
"Money Money Money ... Money Money Money .... tc ... Survival ... Money Money Money" - The Mantra of Greed
P.s. - I still love the game! 9.5/10.0 in my book.
Titan posted 02-18-99 02:11 PM ET
CEO Bernard, the other factions often react depending on the strenght of your faction, and of their faction. If they are superior to you, they will really expect it, and try to crush you if you don't accept. If you are superior, the computer will accept your reasonnable request, and simply decline the unreasonnable one without declaring war.
I find it good though that they are more aggressive than in some other games. For instance, in Master of orion II, at impossible level, I was the weakest faction race, and I got to be the best by simply getting other faction to surrender small bases to me.
I th8ink that in SMAC they are just aggressive enough.
RobKid posted 02-18-99 03:39 PM ET
Hardly. I was playing as UoP. I was leading in everything except money (Morgan) and military (Hive). My bar was about 2-3 times higher than anyone else's. Lal, however, drops off a couple of impact rovers and demands 800 energy credits. I of course decline, since I could easily wipe him out without bliking with my missile rovers, missile cruisers and missle needlejets (detecting a theme?). He declared war and loaded his rovers back on his transport. I sank it and promptly took two cities. It was absolutely ludicrous. Here's a guy who's supposed to want peace, and he instead makes an insane demand of someone easily capable of blowing him out of the water and then declares war. However the joke's on him. Since there's a sunspot outage and I just got the space flight tech, I think I just might dump a couple of planet busters on him before the sunspots end. That'll teach him. And no diplomatic penalties since no one else'll know I did it. Ah, isn't AC wonderful?
Starkin posted 02-18-99 03:48 PM ET
It doesn't seem to be quite as bad as in CivII, but I still find that the factions get more and more touchy when you are far superior to them. It used to drive me insane when the other civs would sign treaties to contain my 'aggression' when I'd never even left my nicely developing continent.
I find that I can keep the peace in SMAC, but only by making as little contact as possible after I'd secured a treaty. They would of course, call me up and make demands and if I didn't give at least half of what they asked it was vendetta time.
Fenris posted 02-18-99 03:54 PM ET
I too rarely get that reaction unless it is from a faction diametricly opposed to my social engineering choices. I've also had factions (usually Pact brothers) give me tech for free! After reading through many of these threads the differing experiences seem to point to the fact that the AI really is good! It seems to do the unexpected or act completely differently for different people...
CEO Bernard posted 02-18-99 03:57 PM ET
I should say that the computer isn't nearly as bad as in Civ 2 (despite what my original post said). I confess I am nitpicking, but only because I love the game so much. Isn't it nice to be complaining about things like this, then real serious problems (although there are a couple of biggies ... formers mainly).
The superiority thing could be the issue as well. I am moving to librarian tonight, and I expect the computer will keep up with me much more, so maybe that will alleviate the problem (there is usually a good 1/4 inch spread on the line between me and second place on the "faction dominance" graph).
Although still it makes little sense to attack a superior foe, better still would be to say mean and nasty things and then hang up (!) and then forge an alliance with the others. By picking on me the bring about their own destruction (the ruin their own reputation and give me the justification to take a city or two before going back to peace). I think I nice adjustment would make the game even more challenging.
CEO Bernard
P.s. - Actually one time that is exactly what happened through dumb luck. 4 factions contacted me at the same time and I told them all to go away with their dumb requests they all attacked and beat me into the ground ... grrrr. I guess I should have been smarter and given in to at least one of them ... just too darn greedy that time.
Phreak posted 02-19-99 10:07 AM ET
I think if you drop a planet buster even with sun-spots, the other factions will still know.
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Author	Topic: Lets talk about greedy
CEO Bernard	posted 02-18-99 02:03 PM ET Perhaps the only other thing (see Move your army ... please? thread) I dislike about SMAC (and Civ 2 for that matter) is the insane offers the computer makes, at least with such regularity. I could see the occasional, "Could you please give me that <tech> because I am such a nice guy?" but every single conversation you have with the computer they want something for nothing (which hey I can understand) but when they don't get it they get mad (in my opinion solely, excessively so) ... on the other hand if you ask for something for free you rarely (not once for me yet) get it, which again makes sense. I guess my question is, why have the computer have such grossly unrealistic expectations from unreasonable requests? I can see a slight change in the relationship (i.e. from disappointment) but it seems (key word) that the computer honestly expects you to hand over free stuff everytime it asks for it (and then go to war with you because they won't move their cursed armies out of my land!!). sigh What a CEO to do? Answer ... complain to the makers of the game. What say you, Firaxis, any chance of adding a little slider switch to adjust this or something as an option? CEO Bernard "Money Money Money ... Money Money Money .... tc ... Survival ... Money Money Money" - The Mantra of Greed P.s. - I still love the game! 9.5/10.0 in my book.
Titan	posted 02-18-99 02:11 PM ET CEO Bernard, the other factions often react depending on the strenght of your faction, and of their faction. If they are superior to you, they will really expect it, and try to crush you if you don't accept. If you are superior, the computer will accept your reasonnable request, and simply decline the unreasonnable one without declaring war. I find it good though that they are more aggressive than in some other games. For instance, in Master of orion II, at impossible level, I was the weakest faction race, and I got to be the best by simply getting other faction to surrender small bases to me. I th8ink that in SMAC they are just aggressive enough.
RobKid	posted 02-18-99 03:39 PM ET Hardly. I was playing as UoP. I was leading in everything except money (Morgan) and military (Hive). My bar was about 2-3 times higher than anyone else's. Lal, however, drops off a couple of impact rovers and demands 800 energy credits. I of course decline, since I could easily wipe him out without bliking with my missile rovers, missile cruisers and missle needlejets (detecting a theme?). He declared war and loaded his rovers back on his transport. I sank it and promptly took two cities. It was absolutely ludicrous. Here's a guy who's supposed to want peace, and he instead makes an insane demand of someone easily capable of blowing him out of the water and then declares war. However the joke's on him. Since there's a sunspot outage and I just got the space flight tech, I think I just might dump a couple of planet busters on him before the sunspots end. That'll teach him. And no diplomatic penalties since no one else'll know I did it. Ah, isn't AC wonderful?
Starkin	posted 02-18-99 03:48 PM ET It doesn't seem to be quite as bad as in CivII, but I still find that the factions get more and more touchy when you are far superior to them. It used to drive me insane when the other civs would sign treaties to contain my 'aggression' when I'd never even left my nicely developing continent. I find that I can keep the peace in SMAC, but only by making as little contact as possible after I'd secured a treaty. They would of course, call me up and make demands and if I didn't give at least half of what they asked it was vendetta time.
Fenris	posted 02-18-99 03:54 PM ET I too rarely get that reaction unless it is from a faction diametricly opposed to my social engineering choices. I've also had factions (usually Pact brothers) give me tech for free! After reading through many of these threads the differing experiences seem to point to the fact that the AI really is good! It seems to do the unexpected or act completely differently for different people...
CEO Bernard	posted 02-18-99 03:57 PM ET I should say that the computer isn't nearly as bad as in Civ 2 (despite what my original post said). I confess I am nitpicking, but only because I love the game so much. Isn't it nice to be complaining about things like this, then real serious problems (although there are a couple of biggies ... formers mainly). The superiority thing could be the issue as well. I am moving to librarian tonight, and I expect the computer will keep up with me much more, so maybe that will alleviate the problem (there is usually a good 1/4 inch spread on the line between me and second place on the "faction dominance" graph). Although still it makes little sense to attack a superior foe, better still would be to say mean and nasty things and then hang up (!) and then forge an alliance with the others. By picking on me the bring about their own destruction (the ruin their own reputation and give me the justification to take a city or two before going back to peace). I think I nice adjustment would make the game even more challenging. CEO Bernard P.s. - Actually one time that is exactly what happened through dumb luck. 4 factions contacted me at the same time and I told them all to go away with their dumb requests they all attacked and beat me into the ground ... grrrr. I guess I should have been smarter and given in to at least one of them ... just too darn greedy that time.
Phreak	posted 02-19-99 10:07 AM ET I think if you drop a planet buster even with sun-spots, the other factions will still know.