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Author Topic:   Play By Email feature

Demosthenes posted 02-16-99 11:47 AM ET
I was really thrilled when I saw that the v2.0 patch would include PBEM features. I am a long-time VGA Planets fan (VGA Planets, for those of you who don't know is pretty much the ONLY playable PBEM game out there.)
Imagine my disappointment when I actually looked at how SMAC's PBEM features work. The host emails his saved game to the next player. They email that game to the next player and so on. The fact that this procedure ignores is that most of us have full-time jobs and can only take one turn a day. It would be very difficult to get the saved game emailed to everyone and have everyone play in one night. So what you have in a seven-player game, most likely, is a turn cycle that takes a week. A WEEK!
I'm not sure how long your average SMAC game takes, but in a 200-turn game (and somehow I think this is a short number of turns) you'd be looking at 200 weeks. That's almost four years. SMAC III will be out in four years.
Basically this renders the play-by-email feature useless for more that two, maybe three players. A suggestion to FIRAXIS developers: Think about implementing a PBEM architecture more like VGA Planets. Instead of passing one save file around to seven people, make the host machine generate seven save files, named by faction. Mail the seven files out to the players. Have them play, and then mail the seven files back. Have SMAC collate the data from these seven files, allow the host to take their turn, and generate seven new files. I guarantee that this will make PBEM games far more enjoyable and practical. Perhaps this could be included when the actual non-beta release of v2.0 comes out.
will posted 02-16-99 11:54 AM ET
I think that the PBEM feature will work better if the players are in different time zones. Four players in London, U.S. East Coast, U.S. West Coast, and Australia could do one turn per day if they mailed their turns between 8 p.m. and 11 p.m.
marc420w posted 02-16-99 12:34 PM ET
I like the seven file idea...
Antiam posted 02-16-99 12:52 PM ET
Seven files won't work in many cases. If two of those factions try and attack each other, how does the computer know who wins? You have to do it sequentially to avoid units disappearing and rising from the ashes.
Antiam
Demosthenes posted 02-16-99 01:53 PM ET
Antiam, the seven files idea would work just fine. You're forgetting that this is a turn-based game, not an RTS like Starcraft or Command and Conquer. If one player attacks another, then the attacked player finds out about it on their next turn. The computer can simply replay the battle for them. This is the way it works in a hotseat game.
Basically each player is entering their orders for their bases and units. The bases and units then try to enact those orders, but if something prevents them from doing it (for example they have been destroyed) then the orders simply don't take place. If I move my rover to the next sqaure, the rover will appear to move. But if in the same turn cycle another player kills that rover, then next turn I don't see the rover, I see a battle where it was destroyed before it tried to move.
It could work!
Aub posted 02-16-99 02:39 PM ET
It is not as easy as it seems.
Example: You should be able to enter orders like "follow this enemy usit no matter where it goes". Otherwise intercepting becomes impossible.
There are a lot of similar problems; "true" PBEM as siggested by Demosthenes would have to be designed into a game from the start. VGA Planets and Stars! are the only two games that do it "right".
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Author	Topic: Play By Email feature
Demosthenes	posted 02-16-99 11:47 AM ET I was really thrilled when I saw that the v2.0 patch would include PBEM features. I am a long-time VGA Planets fan (VGA Planets, for those of you who don't know is pretty much the ONLY playable PBEM game out there.) Imagine my disappointment when I actually looked at how SMAC's PBEM features work. The host emails his saved game to the next player. They email that game to the next player and so on. The fact that this procedure ignores is that most of us have full-time jobs and can only take one turn a day. It would be very difficult to get the saved game emailed to everyone and have everyone play in one night. So what you have in a seven-player game, most likely, is a turn cycle that takes a week. A WEEK! I'm not sure how long your average SMAC game takes, but in a 200-turn game (and somehow I think this is a short number of turns) you'd be looking at 200 weeks. That's almost four years. SMAC III will be out in four years. Basically this renders the play-by-email feature useless for more that two, maybe three players. A suggestion to FIRAXIS developers: Think about implementing a PBEM architecture more like VGA Planets. Instead of passing one save file around to seven people, make the host machine generate seven save files, named by faction. Mail the seven files out to the players. Have them play, and then mail the seven files back. Have SMAC collate the data from these seven files, allow the host to take their turn, and generate seven new files. I guarantee that this will make PBEM games far more enjoyable and practical. Perhaps this could be included when the actual non-beta release of v2.0 comes out.
will	posted 02-16-99 11:54 AM ET I think that the PBEM feature will work better if the players are in different time zones. Four players in London, U.S. East Coast, U.S. West Coast, and Australia could do one turn per day if they mailed their turns between 8 p.m. and 11 p.m.
marc420w	posted 02-16-99 12:34 PM ET I like the seven file idea...
Antiam	posted 02-16-99 12:52 PM ET Seven files won't work in many cases. If two of those factions try and attack each other, how does the computer know who wins? You have to do it sequentially to avoid units disappearing and rising from the ashes. Antiam
Demosthenes	posted 02-16-99 01:53 PM ET Antiam, the seven files idea would work just fine. You're forgetting that this is a turn-based game, not an RTS like Starcraft or Command and Conquer. If one player attacks another, then the attacked player finds out about it on their next turn. The computer can simply replay the battle for them. This is the way it works in a hotseat game. Basically each player is entering their orders for their bases and units. The bases and units then try to enact those orders, but if something prevents them from doing it (for example they have been destroyed) then the orders simply don't take place. If I move my rover to the next sqaure, the rover will appear to move. But if in the same turn cycle another player kills that rover, then next turn I don't see the rover, I see a battle where it was destroyed before it tried to move. It could work!
Aub	posted 02-16-99 02:39 PM ET It is not as easy as it seems. Example: You should be able to enter orders like "follow this enemy usit no matter where it goes". Otherwise intercepting becomes impossible. There are a lot of similar problems; "true" PBEM as siggested by Demosthenes would have to be designed into a game from the start. VGA Planets and Stars! are the only two games that do it "right".