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Author Topic:   Artillery too weak?

Phreak posted 02-16-99 11:36 AM ET
Is it me? or is artillery just too weak? I almost find no use for it in combat. Thier only use seems to be to destroy enhancements.
How about this Firaxis:
On top of causing the minor damage that they cause now, also have them supress the units they bombard that turn (i.e. make Elite units act like Vetrans for the turn they were shelled, etc...). That would also make artillery strikes much more useful in combat. As it stands now, in my opinion, they stink.
I hope someone can point out that I'm wrong and give me a useful way to use them in combat, for now, I don't use them.
Patrick2 posted 02-16-99 11:45 AM ET
or way to choose if they bombard or attack regularly
Ender4000 posted 02-16-99 11:52 AM ET
I haven't played with them a lot, but if you can put them on top of high ground are they better? I would think 3 or 4 artilery using the higher elevation bonuses could defend bases near them from most attacks.
will posted 02-16-99 11:57 AM ET
I have found artillery units to be extremely useful. However, you need to have about three of them. Four or five rounds of bombardment will reduce most units in a base to about 50% strength. The effect is much stronger from a high position -- you can reduce the units within three turns. You can also use artillery to destroy enhancements, get rid of sensor arrays, or attack ships that are bombarding a city. I've used them extensively and found that they really change how I attack a city.
zerlan posted 02-16-99 12:22 PM ET
Whenever I try to bombar an enhancement I get the message "bombardment ineffective."
what's causing that? Does it mean the guns are too weak, or that I'm not doing it right, or...?
Cyberduck posted 02-16-99 01:51 PM ET
I've found the arty' units make for a much better combined arms game. My attack units (at least, pre-needlejet) are typically made up of one or two arty' teams and three or four of whatever my best available ground attack unit is. The arty' softens up a city from range, then the ground troops roll in and mop up.
Jazzman posted 02-16-99 03:11 PM ET
I took one of Yang's bases while I was playing the U of P and in return he brought out 6 to 7 artillery units. Needles to say I was pinned in the city for three turns. Thats when Yang brought in his air force. I held the city by waiting until the next turn. Ie the jets had to refuel. Hit 3 of the batteries the rovers. Lost 1. Then took out the other batteries the next turn. From my experience artillery is used to cause massive damage to stacks of units at on time. If you can keep them at range. You can keep them pinned down.
Heres a thought. Stealth Artillery?
Lazarus posted 02-16-99 05:03 PM ET
In real life, artillery is mainly effective only if there's lots and lots of it. It's usually unaimed and therefore has a low hit rate. So it's not unrealistic to expect to need several arty units to take out a single enemy unit.
Greg Jones posted 02-16-99 05:29 PM ET
As a former gunner and later recce officer it has been my expirience that artillery is not used to destroy a target but to neutralise it. I believe this is quite well done in the game . Artillery is not that good on a single target but does better the more targets are in the space its shooting at. Limiting the damage to 50% reflects that after a while the troops are stunned enough that more pounding has no appreciable effect. But when you're taking out a city with 4 or more defenders, 3 rounds of fire should make it relatively easy.
SolitaryMan posted 02-16-99 06:45 PM ET
JazzMan: I tried that trick with the stealth artillery - twice. I thought I was gonna rock the comp hard with my newly aquired sing hovertank stealth art. But lo and behold! The comp just flies right out there with his jets and kills them. I do not know whether the comp cheats with regards to the stealth units but it should be effective vs humans...at least untill he wakes up and smells the coffee. Concerning what zerlan said about the art. fire having failed, this happens to me all the time. Any suggestions?
Have you seen it in the stars? Next week we collide with Mars.
VvGaMeRXvV posted 02-16-99 10:00 PM ET
I have learned something about stealth units. It only effects them during your movement. It ignores enemy zones of controls but is not invisible to them. They should be I think but the game doesn't recognize cloaking that way.
ViVicdi posted 02-16-99 10:38 PM ET
Artillery prevents damaged units from being repaired.
Jazzman posted 02-17-99 11:27 AM ET
Has any one tried Stealth units during multiplayer games. Can you see Stealth units.
Chairman Yang posted 02-17-99 12:01 PM ET
i dont know why you are all saying it gets them to 50% ive gotten units down to 1 hitpoint with mine... but only on really lucky hits cause once its at 50% it stops taking damage, so if you get 1 real good hit in befor it gets to 50%...
ThRiLL posted 02-17-99 01:35 PM ET
haven't tried yet, but I thought Stealth units were invisible unless someone tried to move onto that unit.
madgonad posted 02-18-99 02:25 AM ET
Arty's wimpy damage makes it low on the bang/buck chart. What would have been nice would be any all of the following:
Damaged units lose morale (already mentioned)
Prevent damaged units from leaving the square
Barrage one square = prevent units from passing through.
Affect populations when bombarding a base (morale, destroy nutrient/mineral)
ALSO, can the idea of a base being cut-off from direct control be implemented? Kind of like laying siege- nothing in or out- preventing any actions/info from going in or out of the base. Kind of like in the old civ when you can take a city without a shot if you surround and starve them out.
If anyone has really dug into the .txt files, any suggestions would be appreciated.
Dick Knisely posted 02-18-99 10:59 AM ET
Don't agree at all. Arty is easy to overlook and you _can_ do without it but you're a lot stronger with it, especially early in the game. I use artillery and ships routinely in any attack on a base. Pound the base with 2-3 artillery attacks and every unit in the base suffers. There's no other way to get such a powerful result and its often the difference between taking a base or not, or at least doing so quickly and with few if any losses. Also use it to knock out nearby sensor's to further reduce the effectiveness of the defense. Once that's done, a few fast units can 'mop up' the base defenders and move on. Once I've gotten strong air units then I'll greatly reduce my production of land based arty units because the air units are just as effective and more flexible. But I still need those ship bombardment units for a while and I keep a few arty units in many port bases to defend against the AI's use of ship bombardments.
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Author	Topic: Artillery too weak?
Phreak	posted 02-16-99 11:36 AM ET Is it me? or is artillery just too weak? I almost find no use for it in combat. Thier only use seems to be to destroy enhancements. How about this Firaxis: On top of causing the minor damage that they cause now, also have them supress the units they bombard that turn (i.e. make Elite units act like Vetrans for the turn they were shelled, etc...). That would also make artillery strikes much more useful in combat. As it stands now, in my opinion, they stink. I hope someone can point out that I'm wrong and give me a useful way to use them in combat, for now, I don't use them.
Patrick2	posted 02-16-99 11:45 AM ET or way to choose if they bombard or attack regularly
Ender4000	posted 02-16-99 11:52 AM ET I haven't played with them a lot, but if you can put them on top of high ground are they better? I would think 3 or 4 artilery using the higher elevation bonuses could defend bases near them from most attacks.
will	posted 02-16-99 11:57 AM ET I have found artillery units to be extremely useful. However, you need to have about three of them. Four or five rounds of bombardment will reduce most units in a base to about 50% strength. The effect is much stronger from a high position -- you can reduce the units within three turns. You can also use artillery to destroy enhancements, get rid of sensor arrays, or attack ships that are bombarding a city. I've used them extensively and found that they really change how I attack a city.
zerlan	posted 02-16-99 12:22 PM ET Whenever I try to bombar an enhancement I get the message "bombardment ineffective." what's causing that? Does it mean the guns are too weak, or that I'm not doing it right, or...?
Cyberduck	posted 02-16-99 01:51 PM ET I've found the arty' units make for a much better combined arms game. My attack units (at least, pre-needlejet) are typically made up of one or two arty' teams and three or four of whatever my best available ground attack unit is. The arty' softens up a city from range, then the ground troops roll in and mop up.
Jazzman	posted 02-16-99 03:11 PM ET I took one of Yang's bases while I was playing the U of P and in return he brought out 6 to 7 artillery units. Needles to say I was pinned in the city for three turns. Thats when Yang brought in his air force. I held the city by waiting until the next turn. Ie the jets had to refuel. Hit 3 of the batteries the rovers. Lost 1. Then took out the other batteries the next turn. From my experience artillery is used to cause massive damage to stacks of units at on time. If you can keep them at range. You can keep them pinned down. Heres a thought. Stealth Artillery?
Lazarus	posted 02-16-99 05:03 PM ET In real life, artillery is mainly effective only if there's lots and lots of it. It's usually unaimed and therefore has a low hit rate. So it's not unrealistic to expect to need several arty units to take out a single enemy unit.
Greg Jones	posted 02-16-99 05:29 PM ET As a former gunner and later recce officer it has been my expirience that artillery is not used to destroy a target but to neutralise it. I believe this is quite well done in the game . Artillery is not that good on a single target but does better the more targets are in the space its shooting at. Limiting the damage to 50% reflects that after a while the troops are stunned enough that more pounding has no appreciable effect. But when you're taking out a city with 4 or more defenders, 3 rounds of fire should make it relatively easy.
SolitaryMan	posted 02-16-99 06:45 PM ET JazzMan: I tried that trick with the stealth artillery - twice. I thought I was gonna rock the comp hard with my newly aquired sing hovertank stealth art. But lo and behold! The comp just flies right out there with his jets and kills them. I do not know whether the comp cheats with regards to the stealth units but it should be effective vs humans...at least untill he wakes up and smells the coffee. Concerning what zerlan said about the art. fire having failed, this happens to me all the time. Any suggestions? Have you seen it in the stars? Next week we collide with Mars.
VvGaMeRXvV	posted 02-16-99 10:00 PM ET I have learned something about stealth units. It only effects them during your movement. It ignores enemy zones of controls but is not invisible to them. They should be I think but the game doesn't recognize cloaking that way.
ViVicdi	posted 02-16-99 10:38 PM ET Artillery prevents damaged units from being repaired.
Jazzman	posted 02-17-99 11:27 AM ET Has any one tried Stealth units during multiplayer games. Can you see Stealth units.
Chairman Yang	posted 02-17-99 12:01 PM ET i dont know why you are all saying it gets them to 50% ive gotten units down to 1 hitpoint with mine... but only on really lucky hits cause once its at 50% it stops taking damage, so if you get 1 real good hit in befor it gets to 50%...
ThRiLL	posted 02-17-99 01:35 PM ET haven't tried yet, but I thought Stealth units were invisible unless someone tried to move onto that unit.
madgonad	posted 02-18-99 02:25 AM ET Arty's wimpy damage makes it low on the bang/buck chart. What would have been nice would be any all of the following: Damaged units lose morale (already mentioned) Prevent damaged units from leaving the square Barrage one square = prevent units from passing through. Affect populations when bombarding a base (morale, destroy nutrient/mineral) ALSO, can the idea of a base being cut-off from direct control be implemented? Kind of like laying siege- nothing in or out- preventing any actions/info from going in or out of the base. Kind of like in the old civ when you can take a city without a shot if you surround and starve them out. If anyone has really dug into the .txt files, any suggestions would be appreciated.
Dick Knisely	posted 02-18-99 10:59 AM ET Don't agree at all. Arty is easy to overlook and you _can_ do without it but you're a lot stronger with it, especially early in the game. I use artillery and ships routinely in any attack on a base. Pound the base with 2-3 artillery attacks and every unit in the base suffers. There's no other way to get such a powerful result and its often the difference between taking a base or not, or at least doing so quickly and with few if any losses. Also use it to knock out nearby sensor's to further reduce the effectiveness of the defense. Once that's done, a few fast units can 'mop up' the base defenders and move on. Once I've gotten strong air units then I'll greatly reduce my production of land based arty units because the air units are just as effective and more flexible. But I still need those ship bombardment units for a while and I keep a few arty units in many port bases to defend against the AI's use of ship bombardments.