What is the deal w/ Yang's magical perimeter defences?

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Author Topic:   What is the deal w/ Yang's magical perimeter defences?

Lord Gek posted 02-13-99 12:29 PM ET
Hello Gang,
When Yang makes or takes a base it AUTOMATICALLY gets a perimeter defense. Okay, no problem there. It's sabatage of these automatic facilities that confuses me. I was playing the PKs, used probes to disable Yang's perimeter defense, and then as soon as I took it over from him that same turn, BOING, this newly taken city had a perimeter defense again.

When are such automatic facilities (either via faction or secret project) supposed to be re-added to a base if disabled or destroyed somehow?

Khan Singh posted 02-13-99 01:22 PM ET
The best way to deal with Yang's perimeter defenses is not to let him build them in the first place. If you encounter Yang early in the game( say the first thirty turns) I think it is imperative that you immediately implement a Kill the Wabbit strategy against him.
You should first move a unit close to the Hive capital. If he has not already established a second base, then find his colony pod, declare Vendetta, and kill it. Then avoid any of his combat units while waiting for him to send out another Wabbit (colony pod). When it appears, kill it. Repeat as needed.
If you can keep the Hive contained to only one base, they are no threat and can be dealt with at will. Two bases is harder, but is a managable problem. However, if you encounter the Hive when they have three or more bases, I don't think this is a viable strategy. I think you're better off making peace with them, whatever the cost, until you have weapon able to take out their cities, massed needlejets, followed by rovers, for instance.
Contain the Hive, or, soon, the Hive will contain you.
Khan Singh posted 02-13-99 01:28 PM ET
BTW, I assume the AI must have just hurry built the perimeter defense, if he had the opportunity. The AI has a strong propensity to ensure that all his bases have their 'natural' facitlities.
Lord Gek posted 02-13-99 01:50 PM ET
Thanks Khan,

While you offer some cool tips there...I'm not really asking for tactics as much as trying to figure out how and when these automatically added facilities get replaced. I'm pretty sure in the case I described above he never even had a turn in between my knocking his walls down and taking his base.
Khan Singh posted 02-13-99 02:00 PM ET
I wouldn't rule out AI cheating, but I don't know if that's what happened or not.
Jim Vieira posted 02-13-99 03:20 PM ET
Hmm, maybe I'm misunderstanding you guys, but the human hive GETS automatic perimeter defenses at every base as part of their race bonuses...
Jim
Pudz posted 02-13-99 04:03 PM ET
the uop also get free network nodes at every base. i think that they new objects are added everyturn, not sure though. if they get destroyed though they have to be built. i think it also depends on the city look. if you capture an enemy city it still looks the same, so it shoudl behave like that emenys city.
i think not sure. guess that when you capture a yang city it acts like it was just built by you. it gets all of yangs enhancements.
Fenris posted 02-13-99 07:05 PM ET
I'm playing a game as the Hive right now and I can tell you that the perimeter defenses can be knocked out. UoP has sent in probes and destroyed them on at lease one occasion...I did of course, knock him back to the stone age, but that is a different story...
TheHelperMonkey posted 02-13-99 07:52 PM ET
I hate the UoP when playing Hive. They can be so stubborn. Infact, they killed me w/ tachyon bolt. The trick is when playing any other faction than UoP is to contain so that they don't research freely.
PersonaNonGrata posted 02-13-99 10:05 PM ET
Yes, you are quite right in that the Hive gets automatic facility bonus due to their faction.
The story is that the Hives people all live underground, so that explains the automatic perimeter defense. It's there for every base, Yang don't need to build it, though I doubt it can rebound back in one turn if you disable it. It certainly didn't happen to me.
Schole posted 02-13-99 10:27 PM ET
Maybe the "Perimeter Defense" for the Hive should be made invulnerable since their "defense" is living underground.
White_Cat posted 02-14-99 05:39 AM ET
According to the manual, the Hive bases being underground is the reason why they get a perimeter defenese (it's actually just the "equivilant" of that improvement).
BTW, does anyone know if perimeter defense assist against mind worm attacks?
bene4 posted 02-15-99 03:45 PM ET
should not be invulnerable - if it's because they live underground and the probe team destroys the enhancement, it means that they advantage of living underground has been compromised. Like tunnels or something. They've got to find them and fix them. Later in the game they rebuild stuff fast.
As far as I understand, when you conquer a base all your natural enhancements get applied, and all natural enhancements that the other group had go away. When you buy or trade for a base, you get the base as it is. What is weird about this is when you conquer a base it keeps the original faction look, for a while, but if you buy a base, it converts to your faction look....
evil_conquerer posted 02-15-99 04:13 PM ET
I know for a fact that the perimeter defense doesn't get replaced every turn. When I was the UoP, mind worms attacked my city and knocked out the network node. It didn't grow back.
Do you mean that the perimeter defense grew back after you captured the base or before? If it was after you captured it, then it's probably a bug. The computer assumed that Yang always has a perimeter defense, and when you captured it, the perimeter defense was restored.
ThRiLL posted 02-15-99 04:42 PM ET
As I understand it, the reason that a captured base retains the look of the old base for a while is to show you when the people have accepted your rule, and drone penalties go away. When you 'buy' an enemy town however, the image changes immediately because the inhabitants come to your faction 'willingly'.
As for my two cents.. When I play as UoP and take over a Yang base, that base immediately gets a network node, and does not have city walls. (maybe i destroyed the walls, but one thing is for sure, i immediately get a node.)
Lord Gek posted 02-15-99 04:54 PM ET
Well,
In the game I first described I'd disabled the defenses and immediately took it over at which point it instantly gre its wall back. I was not playing Yang nor did I have any instant perimeter defense making wonder under my wing so I thought it seemed a bit strange. I have yet to reproduce this and may have gotten some of my facts confused. I'll see if I can repeat this until I really claim I've found something weird here.
Utrecht posted 02-15-99 05:24 PM ET
This has happened to me as well. In effect. I had a city that was captured by YANG. The INSTANT that the Hive unit moved in, the perimiter defense was built. i.e. when the color changed from yellow to blue and the icon switched over.
Now, I know I did not have this built (since I did not have the tech).
Krushala posted 09-06-99 07:57 PM ET
good title
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Author	Topic: What is the deal w/ Yang's magical perimeter defences?
Lord Gek	posted 02-13-99 12:29 PM ET Hello Gang, When Yang makes or takes a base it AUTOMATICALLY gets a perimeter defense. Okay, no problem there. It's sabatage of these automatic facilities that confuses me. I was playing the PKs, used probes to disable Yang's perimeter defense, and then as soon as I took it over from him that same turn, BOING, this newly taken city had a perimeter defense again. When are such automatic facilities (either via faction or secret project) supposed to be re-added to a base if disabled or destroyed somehow?
Khan Singh	posted 02-13-99 01:22 PM ET The best way to deal with Yang's perimeter defenses is not to let him build them in the first place. If you encounter Yang early in the game( say the first thirty turns) I think it is imperative that you immediately implement a Kill the Wabbit strategy against him. You should first move a unit close to the Hive capital. If he has not already established a second base, then find his colony pod, declare Vendetta, and kill it. Then avoid any of his combat units while waiting for him to send out another Wabbit (colony pod). When it appears, kill it. Repeat as needed. If you can keep the Hive contained to only one base, they are no threat and can be dealt with at will. Two bases is harder, but is a managable problem. However, if you encounter the Hive when they have three or more bases, I don't think this is a viable strategy. I think you're better off making peace with them, whatever the cost, until you have weapon able to take out their cities, massed needlejets, followed by rovers, for instance. Contain the Hive, or, soon, the Hive will contain you.
Khan Singh	posted 02-13-99 01:28 PM ET BTW, I assume the AI must have just hurry built the perimeter defense, if he had the opportunity. The AI has a strong propensity to ensure that all his bases have their 'natural' facitlities.
Lord Gek	posted 02-13-99 01:50 PM ET Thanks Khan, While you offer some cool tips there...I'm not really asking for tactics as much as trying to figure out how and when these automatically added facilities get replaced. I'm pretty sure in the case I described above he never even had a turn in between my knocking his walls down and taking his base.
Khan Singh	posted 02-13-99 02:00 PM ET I wouldn't rule out AI cheating, but I don't know if that's what happened or not.
Jim Vieira	posted 02-13-99 03:20 PM ET Hmm, maybe I'm misunderstanding you guys, but the human hive GETS automatic perimeter defenses at every base as part of their race bonuses... Jim
Pudz	posted 02-13-99 04:03 PM ET the uop also get free network nodes at every base. i think that they new objects are added everyturn, not sure though. if they get destroyed though they have to be built. i think it also depends on the city look. if you capture an enemy city it still looks the same, so it shoudl behave like that emenys city. i think not sure. guess that when you capture a yang city it acts like it was just built by you. it gets all of yangs enhancements.
Fenris	posted 02-13-99 07:05 PM ET I'm playing a game as the Hive right now and I can tell you that the perimeter defenses can be knocked out. UoP has sent in probes and destroyed them on at lease one occasion...I did of course, knock him back to the stone age, but that is a different story...
TheHelperMonkey	posted 02-13-99 07:52 PM ET I hate the UoP when playing Hive. They can be so stubborn. Infact, they killed me w/ tachyon bolt. The trick is when playing any other faction than UoP is to contain so that they don't research freely.
PersonaNonGrata	posted 02-13-99 10:05 PM ET Yes, you are quite right in that the Hive gets automatic facility bonus due to their faction. The story is that the Hives people all live underground, so that explains the automatic perimeter defense. It's there for every base, Yang don't need to build it, though I doubt it can rebound back in one turn if you disable it. It certainly didn't happen to me.
Schole	posted 02-13-99 10:27 PM ET Maybe the "Perimeter Defense" for the Hive should be made invulnerable since their "defense" is living underground.
White_Cat	posted 02-14-99 05:39 AM ET According to the manual, the Hive bases being underground is the reason why they get a perimeter defenese (it's actually just the "equivilant" of that improvement). BTW, does anyone know if perimeter defense assist against mind worm attacks?
bene4	posted 02-15-99 03:45 PM ET should not be invulnerable - if it's because they live underground and the probe team destroys the enhancement, it means that they advantage of living underground has been compromised. Like tunnels or something. They've got to find them and fix them. Later in the game they rebuild stuff fast. As far as I understand, when you conquer a base all your natural enhancements get applied, and all natural enhancements that the other group had go away. When you buy or trade for a base, you get the base as it is. What is weird about this is when you conquer a base it keeps the original faction look, for a while, but if you buy a base, it converts to your faction look....
evil_conquerer	posted 02-15-99 04:13 PM ET I know for a fact that the perimeter defense doesn't get replaced every turn. When I was the UoP, mind worms attacked my city and knocked out the network node. It didn't grow back. Do you mean that the perimeter defense grew back after you captured the base or before? If it was after you captured it, then it's probably a bug. The computer assumed that Yang always has a perimeter defense, and when you captured it, the perimeter defense was restored.
ThRiLL	posted 02-15-99 04:42 PM ET As I understand it, the reason that a captured base retains the look of the old base for a while is to show you when the people have accepted your rule, and drone penalties go away. When you 'buy' an enemy town however, the image changes immediately because the inhabitants come to your faction 'willingly'. As for my two cents.. When I play as UoP and take over a Yang base, that base immediately gets a network node, and does not have city walls. (maybe i destroyed the walls, but one thing is for sure, i immediately get a node.)
Lord Gek	posted 02-15-99 04:54 PM ET Well, In the game I first described I'd disabled the defenses and immediately took it over at which point it instantly gre its wall back. I was not playing Yang nor did I have any instant perimeter defense making wonder under my wing so I thought it seemed a bit strange. I have yet to reproduce this and may have gotten some of my facts confused. I'll see if I can repeat this until I really claim I've found something weird here.
Utrecht	posted 02-15-99 05:24 PM ET This has happened to me as well. In effect. I had a city that was captured by YANG. The INSTANT that the Hive unit moved in, the perimiter defense was built. i.e. when the color changed from yellow to blue and the icon switched over. Now, I know I did not have this built (since I did not have the tech).
Krushala	posted 09-06-99 07:57 PM ET good title