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Author Topic:   War Formulas

KaiN_ZerO posted 06-20-99 04:12 PM ET
I don't understand how defense works in this game... here is a story...
A huge hovertank roams the planet, looking for a kill, armed with a singularity laser and lacking armor, hits upon a base. It is locked in a perimeter defense, with an army of sentinels loaded with machine guns(hand weapons... right?) and donning antimatter armor. The tank proceeds to bombard the base with singularity laser charges... however... the antimatter sentinels wait until the tank runs out of ammo while taking the hits... and then they open up the tank and gun down the pilots...
What the hell?
How can a person(or army) armed with hand weapons and antimatter plate destroy a squadron of tanks? Defense in this game is only what they are wearing... if two tanks get into a battle, the winner is whoever attacked first, almost all the time. This doesn't make any sense. If a synthmetal speeder loaded with an impact gun got into a battle with a regular speeder with an impact weapon... logically the synthmetal one should take more hits and survive...
So... new formulas
1/4 attack + defense = total defense
1/4 defense + attack = total attack
It makes more sense and it is a big improvement toward the system, making for better battle results. We don't want to see our battleship lose to a phalanx again like in Civ I (the phalanx dodges the artillery, finds its way into the engine room, flips the switch, and jumps to safety)
Think about it.
KaiN ZerO

MichaeltheGreat posted 06-20-99 04:46 PM ET
The units in the game represent in only a few variables a group of composite units. You never see pure armor in the real world, or pure infantry with infantry weapons - the armor has infantry support in IFV's, and coordinates with artillery and scout/attack helos and recon elements.
US Mechanized Infantry divisions typically have ten line battalions - 5 infantry and 5 armor, but they mix and match down to the company level. The US M2 Bradley IFV has two TOW-2 ATGMs, plus there is the mediocre Dragon man-portable ATGM for dismounted infantry etc. Plus at close range, infantry can take down unsupported armor - I'm an ex light (not mechanized) infantryman, so I know. That is why armor never operates by itself.
If you served in the gulf war (I did) then you realize first hit-first kill is real life. US M2 and M3 Bradley IFV's and CFV's, with minimal armor support from M1A1's typically kicked ass against dug in Iraqi Republican Guard T-72 MBT's - why? The TOW missiles on the Brads, and the 120mm guns on the supporting M1A1 tanks killed enemy targets first round at longer range. The Brads sure as hell don't have the armor to stand up to a main gun hit from a T72, in fact the turret armor of a Brad can be holed by Russian made 14.5 mm AAMG's that are the secondary armament on the T-72. The point is that the second firing side has to (a) live and (b) hit their target.
You're getting too hung up on the literal interpretation of weapons and armor, instead of thinking in terms of total offensive ability and total defensive ability. Think of the units as battle groups with a unit mix dominated by the main type.
The offense/defense distinction is dead on legitimate. If a tank rumbled down my street, I could pop it from my second floor window with any number of ATGM's, or even in desperation, Molotov cocktails into the engine deck area or tracks. Moving out on the offensive in open terrain to get within range to use those weapons is a totally different story, however.
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Author	Topic: War Formulas
KaiN_ZerO	posted 06-20-99 04:12 PM ET I don't understand how defense works in this game... here is a story... A huge hovertank roams the planet, looking for a kill, armed with a singularity laser and lacking armor, hits upon a base. It is locked in a perimeter defense, with an army of sentinels loaded with machine guns(hand weapons... right?) and donning antimatter armor. The tank proceeds to bombard the base with singularity laser charges... however... the antimatter sentinels wait until the tank runs out of ammo while taking the hits... and then they open up the tank and gun down the pilots... What the hell? How can a person(or army) armed with hand weapons and antimatter plate destroy a squadron of tanks? Defense in this game is only what they are wearing... if two tanks get into a battle, the winner is whoever attacked first, almost all the time. This doesn't make any sense. If a synthmetal speeder loaded with an impact gun got into a battle with a regular speeder with an impact weapon... logically the synthmetal one should take more hits and survive... So... new formulas 1/4 attack + defense = total defense 1/4 defense + attack = total attack It makes more sense and it is a big improvement toward the system, making for better battle results. We don't want to see our battleship lose to a phalanx again like in Civ I (the phalanx dodges the artillery, finds its way into the engine room, flips the switch, and jumps to safety) Think about it. KaiN ZerO
MichaeltheGreat	posted 06-20-99 04:46 PM ET The units in the game represent in only a few variables a group of composite units. You never see pure armor in the real world, or pure infantry with infantry weapons - the armor has infantry support in IFV's, and coordinates with artillery and scout/attack helos and recon elements. US Mechanized Infantry divisions typically have ten line battalions - 5 infantry and 5 armor, but they mix and match down to the company level. The US M2 Bradley IFV has two TOW-2 ATGMs, plus there is the mediocre Dragon man-portable ATGM for dismounted infantry etc. Plus at close range, infantry can take down unsupported armor - I'm an ex light (not mechanized) infantryman, so I know. That is why armor never operates by itself. If you served in the gulf war (I did) then you realize first hit-first kill is real life. US M2 and M3 Bradley IFV's and CFV's, with minimal armor support from M1A1's typically kicked ass against dug in Iraqi Republican Guard T-72 MBT's - why? The TOW missiles on the Brads, and the 120mm guns on the supporting M1A1 tanks killed enemy targets first round at longer range. The Brads sure as hell don't have the armor to stand up to a main gun hit from a T72, in fact the turret armor of a Brad can be holed by Russian made 14.5 mm AAMG's that are the secondary armament on the T-72. The point is that the second firing side has to (a) live and (b) hit their target. You're getting too hung up on the literal interpretation of weapons and armor, instead of thinking in terms of total offensive ability and total defensive ability. Think of the units as battle groups with a unit mix dominated by the main type. The offense/defense distinction is dead on legitimate. If a tank rumbled down my street, I could pop it from my second floor window with any number of ATGM's, or even in desperation, Molotov cocktails into the engine deck area or tracks. Moving out on the offensive in open terrain to get within range to use those weapons is a totally different story, however.