posted 06-12-99 01:04 PM ET         

Spraying the glowing urine of truth in the mouths of the ignorant.

posted 06-12-99 02:33 PM ET         

Considering the dubious nature of the stereotypes you are hanging your hat on, I'd say that's a weak, weak case you have. Especially when you are applying equal bu t opposite fallacious stereotypes on Iranians. I.e.: Americans Ignorant brainwashed, Iranians noble conscientous objectors.

Sorry, but both cases far woefully short of any value as a generalization.

In any case, the question was "which SMAC faction best suits the U.S." NOT "how can I grind my politcal ax and shoehorn the US into my most hated faction" ;-)

I would say that the US indeed fits best with the Morgans for a couple reasons.

1) Economy ( no brainer here folks ) capitalist ( albeit micromanaged just like any good Sim )

2) Technology with infrastructure ( another no brainer ) the U.S. is a builder-dream...just like the Morgan's, weak at first but strong late.

3) Research. Since when did Miriam do any reasearch? ;-)

posted 06-13-99 02:13 AM ET         

As I stated before Miriam represents a powerful faction from a greater majority. In this microworld there were only seven factions in real life tens of thousands. Makes it difficult to compare the game to real life doesn't it. In the modern the fanatical religeous right represents a very powerful force in our society and in the event of an unimaginable event that brings about a collapse of the US do you think the capitalists or nuts would gain control.

As for you 4 points
1) Economy ( no brainer here folks ) capitalist ( albeit micromanaged just like any good Sim )

Morgan works best with a free market and democracy setting. The U.S. is neither of these. A free market is by definition unregulated. We are closer to a green or planned economy from heavy gov't regulation. second the U.S. is a republic not a democracy, we have some democratic ideal's and use the word freely but we are not.

2) Technology with infrastructure ( another no brainer ) the U.S. is a builder-dream...just like the Morgan's, weak at first but strong late.

3) Research. Since when did Miriam do any reasearch? ;-)

For these two points the reponse is the same. Look at the post WWII era. Our huge buildup of infrastructure and competative research was due not to free market ideals but the cold war. Our immense military research and buildup put us where we are now. Our very interstate highway system was built and funded under military funding. Now the world is changing. Speaking as a scientist (I hold a Master's in Biology and am Working toward a combined MD/PhD in neurology/developmental neuroscience) with the end of the cold war the US is rapidly losing ground to the rest of the world. I speak French but believe I will likely need to learn german and or japanese just to read the current journals. The US is no longer funding research or the military needed to keep up with the EC. I am doing work on trying to find alternitive tissues for use instead of fetal tissue in research and medicine. This is nessicary because of the relativly few but very vocal nuts who honestly believe that baby farms would be created if we found new uses for fetal tissue. Two other examples of the US follishly bowing down to the noisy minority are prohibition, it is believed that less than 3 percent of the population actually supported prohibition, and the McCarthy trials. In all the minority can become disproportionally powerful.
As for Morgan the US is far to regulated and green. Miriam is the best choice and once again Miriam is the only one from the future Christian States of America. Morgan may fit on the face but this is "prima facea"

posted 06-13-99 07:51 PM ET            

Rimmer, don't feel like a dork yet. If you knew what a 'rimmer' was, then you may feel like a dork.

posted 06-13-99 11:57 PM ET         

Tripp. I know what a "rimmer" is. mmm mmm good. didn't I see you at the Bourban pub or was it the Oz.

Whirlwind, first work on your coherence. Second, you may not see many christian fundamentalist (sic) running around but you also don't like in a collapsed fantasy future where mankind's only hope is to escape it's own birthplace. I'm guessing your fantasy world involves self rimming (a flexible pervert) and crusty sheets.

Once again with Morgan he represents the developing countries clawing thier ways to industrialization. Free market. No safty regulations. Child Labor. No enviornmental restraints. The US was this until the end fall of the monopolies. Monopolies are illegal in the US. Morgan is all about monopoly. Listen to the datalinks talk to you.

posted 06-14-99 10:41 AM ET         

Rimmer, you're trying to have your cake and eat it too! ( not that it is a bad thing per se ;-)

Which is it? A "vocal minority" or the "general population"???

On the one had you're claiming that the majority of the U.S. are the "Beleiver-ist" zealot type, and on the other you're arguing that its a "3 percent" minority.

Pick one line an run with it... :-)

Yes, I'll grant you are not an "America Basher".

Yes, yes, I know the U.S. a Constitutional Republic not a Democracy.

And Yes, I know that the U.S. has some very heavily regulated industies, and it has some that are nearly unregulated also...Some industries labor under nearly Mussolini-Style Fascism ( not the epithet, the textbook def. ) and some labor under nearly laissez-faire regulatory environs.

On the whole, however, the U.S. is the closest thing to a "democratic-free-market" economy you're liable to find.

I think you are putting too much stock into the "threat" of the Religious Fanatics in this country. Also I think you're making a bit of a false dichotomy by separating "nuts" and "captialists". I'd wager that many of the same "Fanatics" would tend towards Capitalism. Given that it is pretty established that many "religious" types tend towards Conservatism.

In any case, you seem to be basing you decision on where you see the U.S. going...not where it presently is. and in your exmaples, you are mish-mashing Religious ax-grinders with Political ax-grinders , e.g.:McCarthyites .

Infrastructure:

My point was that Miriam is hobbled in Research, period. She always is behind, and must steal or extort tech to remain competitive in this area.

The U.S. regardless of where the money comes from, can do good research when it has to. Speaking as an Engineer ( BSEE, starting on my Masters in Non-Linear Control Systems/Physics ) I agree with a lot about your assesments about other nations catching up, but I think at the same time, you over estimate the effects of Military-Industrial spending on the big picture, especially the Microprocessor leap in the last 10 years ( highly comsumer-driven ) .

BUT: You're contention that Military Applications being behind the spending for research bux makes the U.S. less of a Free-Market is misplaced ( IMHO ) the Military is a customer ( especially in My Biz ) just like any other.

Besides, in the game, SMAC research is primarily aimed at getting a Military and Infrastructure advantage over your opponents.

On the whole, granted the general nature of the SMAC factions, a Prima Facie evaluation is in fact warranted, and the U.S best fits the Morganites. This is not to say the aspects of the other factions cannot be found in the U.S., but currently the best fit is with the Morgans.

posted 06-14-99 11:38 AM ET         

Religion was not, is not tossing 500 years of science down the drain.

In fact, quite the opposite. The case can be made that the Western religion assumption of an "orderly universe, obeying laws"; which we take for granted today, was a key philosophical underpinning that led to the Scientific Rennaisance out of the Dark Ages.

Many of the greatest scientists, past and present were deeply religious.

posted 06-14-99 12:00 PM ET            

Chronomog - you're nuts about the Catholics. School prayer in the pulic schools and all that crap is primarily driven by the bible belt denominations - the Southern Baptist Convention, and the other evangelical protestants.

Also, to quote Pope John-Paul II: "evolution is more than just a theory." What developed into the "big bang" model of cosmology was first proposed by a Catholic theologian/astronomer named Abbe Georges Lemaitre in 1927, and he (Lemaitre) convinced Einstein that Einstein's arbitrary adjustment of the "cosmological constant" to force a static universe in the Theory of General Relativity was wrong. The Vatican has also sponsored some cutting edge conferences on cosmology, with many of the leading participants in the field participating. The Catholic church is actually far more interested in modern secular science than any other denomination of any major religion, although some rank and file members are hard core fundamentalists.

posted 06-15-99 12:51 AM ET            

Nope, guys, you all missed it.
The U.S. is Santiago! Guns, guns, guns!
-1 industry is being generous--we've all heard about Pentagon overruns.
Plus, the U.S. has the best troop morale in the world, plus the inventiveness to use new weapons technology (think of the U.S. as one big skunkworks--WTH did that word come from anyway?).

posted 06-16-99 07:29 AM ET            

However, Stefa makes a good point. I'll still vote for Morgan though.

posted 06-16-99 08:25 AM ET            

Of course it is unfair to generalise about all the millions of people in a country. All the factions (except perhaps Yang) are reasonably well-represented in today's America. But I think that the pursuit of wealth is probably the most prevalent of these seven options.

You can't even generalise about individuals. I agree with some (but not all) of the attitudes of the Gaians, PKs, UoP and Believers, but the differences have been accentuated to make the game more interesting. If we dislike some of the factions, beating them is more fun!

CelticWarLord

posted 06-17-99 04:00 AM ET            

Miriam: Fanatic, beleives that EVERYTHING is God's will.

Americans: Love money, but most aren't rich; believe in Free Enterprise even though this is NOT what America has. Approximately 66% of Americans are Bible thumping morons who love to watch "The 700 Club" and actually believe that Jesus helped a cat pull a bus of drowning nuns out of a river; most will kick your ass for saying that God doesn't exist and a lot of time a person's religious beliefs DO come up in trials, Government, etc...

posted 06-17-99 04:15 AM ET            

the most american line i remember from the stories (i read them or the first time yesterday) is something like lal said he'd kill for peace, that sounds american to me

how about the other nations?

who is the netherlands?
who is russia?
who is india?
who is pakistan?
who is south africa?
who is columbia?
who is the Uk?
who is indonesia?

posted 06-18-99 12:20 AM ET         

The whole idea of SMAC is that none of the factions alone represent any current nation, but instead political and religious FACTIONS!

As a non USite, I think I can give a fairly objective view here. This is how the international media and entertainment TV depict the USA in my view.

Believers: Republicans. Conservative, gun toting, religious, rascists.

Peacekeepers: (here I'm guessing a little, this is what they are supposed to be like.) Democrats. Pro Democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of belief, gun toting (To keep the peace of course ) good guys.

Morganites: One short equation. Nwabudike Morgan = Bill Gates. These guys are the big guns of current research. The customer is always right. The big companies and conglomerates.

There is also an element of Gaian(Wiccan), although mostly underground due to the overwhelming christian population. The UoP in the US was massive in the coldwar era as the massive armaments of the US were built up, but today I think most research is done in the private sector due to the fact that the companies give more funding than the government in many situations. It seems Americans love their guns, so there may be an element of the Spartans but I believe this can be mostly be made up for by the PK belief that they are needed to defend and keep the peace. (I live in Australia where since the Port Arthur Massacre (about 20 were killed by a guy with a pump action shot gun) all automatic and semi automatic guns were made illegal and the government began a gun buy back scheme, where before a certain date, the soon to be illegal weapons could be handed in to the government in exchange for cash. I realise this may be impractical in the US due to the vast number of arms out there, and the misguided belief that to be safe, people must have guns.)
As for The Hive, I think any true hive members wouldn't live for more than five minutes because despite their "Free speech" ideals, leftist views are crushed as soon as they appear.

As for the church helping science. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The church has done FAR more to impede scientific progress than to help it. Basically due to the fact that they know that science can, and has, proven their supposed perfect scripture wrong. Remember Galileo (he says in the tone of those who would say, "Remember the Alamo?")? He was put under house arrest simply because he said that the Earth was not the centre of the universe. The Geocentrist church could not handle the thought that their statements could prove false. Until in the 19th century they came out with the cunning "revelation" that the scripture could not be taken literally, and who knew what it really meant.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for religion, for wasn't it Einstein who said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind". I believe that the church has done a lot of good in the world (however accidentally it may have been), but as for science, the church has done nothing but hurt it. I mean COME ON! Who really cares whether or not Angels have navels. I'm deeply religious (I'm Wiccan) but why must the church always be right? I much prefer Wicca with it's one simple rede: An' it harm none, do what thou wilt. But I'm getting off the topic.
Science need religion and religion needs science. But science can certainly do without the church.