Alpha Centauri Forums
The Game
A Real Expansion Pack For SMAC
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Alpha Centauri Forums
The Game
A Real Expansion Pack For SMAC
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| Author | Topic: A Real Expansion Pack For SMAC |
| Chronomog |
posted 06-10-99 11:37 PM ET 
Okay first off About the expansion pack I really would dislike it if you people went all skeptical and going on and on about this because I would like to hear Jeff's input on this. About 60 more technologies would be nice for the expansion pack with bigger worlds and a new level of difficulty for big worlds with more years on transcendent levels. More infrastructure like more ecology complexes and so on would also be sweet. As well as less drones in the base infrastructures. *New enhancement ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT You could target using longitude and latitude. Kill a unit inside a square anywhere on the globe using certain sattelites like the one in C&C Tiberium Dawn The Ion Cannon. They should have balance like take energy to power 5 times longers than any other sattelite etc etc. *More space warfare. *Better music maybe a CD soundtrack would be nice. *Choices on payloads for missiles like nerve gas *New reactor types Anti-matter/Matter (Very nasty) Liquid Hydrogen/Super heated Plasma *Oh more things you can do with probe teams etc etc. And also allow them to have lasers to defend themselves with. *Oh and more weapons is always a must i see that you have plenty of slots for weapons *Maybe you guys could go into more depth with the Global energy market. Maybe you could buy out an entire faction. *More Planetary Council agendas. One called recolonize earth. Have a colony on both earth and Chiron. Next you could Go do that thing you could do best with that expansion pack make it how you would balance it all out. Make it a Sid meier one MAKE IT GOOD MAKE IT THE BEST. And here is a good idea try to beat Cavedog's Total Annihilation Expansion Pack Core contigency. If you do that you will certainly get my 30 bucks for the expansion pack. |
| jimmytrick |
posted 06-11-99 12:43 AM ET
It makes me kinda sick to see a list like this. Sure, I know, its for an expansion disk. But why should we encourage Firaxis to do some more silly crap like the borehole cluster? We need to get them to fully develop the elements of the game that are not in play. You want orbital bombardment??????? There is an element in the game, wherein you can shoot down satelites with ODPs. I think it is in there, but, when does the AI ever build any? If they implement orbital bombardment the human player will just have new toy to slaughter the AI with. Its just a BFG! It is not needed in a strategy game! What we need are some tweaks in the AI and game balance to bring into play some of the elements that are not being used. Who the HELL cares about frigging music???? Sid and Brian know that music did not make them who they are! What is the point of having more toys when half the ones you have are never played with. For example, gravships. How the heck can anyone manage to play so badly that these units mean anything. If you play smaller worlds, you have essentially conquered them by the time you get advanced weapons. On larger worlds, you will have developed to the point that you are so strong that you are unbeatable. So what difference does it make, gravships are moot. You want more reactors?????????? Fusion comes into play, the others do not, game over long before!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What are you thinking about???????? About 45% of the tech tree never MEANS anything to gameplay, and yet you want more???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? What should be done is: 1. Steeply increase tech costs all the way up the tree, much more than now (or make it easy for users to adjust) 2. Implement something like the Planetary Datlinks so that every single AI faction can fall no more than two levels behind the leader in any tech area. Period, period, period!!! If that happens then the AI can be in the game longer, therefore multipling fun x100. What we need is gameplay! To be in a desperate race to develop gravships first so that we can pull our faction out of sixth place. Stem the tide of a massive invasion by deploying units equipped with the new blink thingamajig. I want to be beaten senseless by the AI early, have to fight to survive mid game, and expect to lose unless I can pull off a miracle late. I want to play the whole game that Brian concepted, not just the first half. You said nothing about the host of bugs that are still in the game. Unbelievable! But you want more things for probe teams? Space combat? SPACE COMBAT!! You say nothing about the AI? I guess it must be very challenging for you. If Firaxis decides to make games along the lines you seem to favor, then, heck, I don't know what I'll do. I do agree with you on one thing, I hope Firaxis eliminates some of the drones in the game, cause we have more than enough playing the game. |
| Chronomog |
posted 06-11-99 01:08 AM ET
Jimmytrick I care about music most people do. Sometimes listening to the same boring thing over 3 million times it seems in transcend seems a bit boring. Next off the AI is as smart as it can be. But smarter isn't always a good thing the only thing smarter is as an eraser bot. But the thing is I can kill them any day of the week. Oh also your talking about that being the BFG for orbital bombardment. Gee it's a once every turn kill a unit in a square not a damn city. And also if you aim it with longitude and latitude hey oops i just hit my own city. I said it has balance. Oh and finally about your stupid egotistical remarks about conquest victory. You are probably going either for score or for nothing. Or perhaps because if you dont conquer them then they will deform you because they will notice your very weak infrastructure. I play build games. Give the AI a big chance. The wars are somewhat a challenge. But maybe i will be like you and do it almost immdediately. And finally Fusion reactor the last time I went for quick contest the game only last 54 turns. |
| jimmytrick |
posted 06-11-99 01:26 AM ET
to err is human, to whine, divine Prove you quick killed in 54 turns. Send a .sav to the Hall of Fame. Hah, I guess you'll claim you deleted it. I know what the heck an expansion pack is. It a big bag of garbage bells and whistles marketed toward nimwits and toadstools. Send in one of your "big" games too, so that we might ooo and aah over your stragegic placement of condensers..... BTW, it is nice to meet you Try not to take it personal, pal. I have as much right to make a fool of myself as you do....... and we both have. Will you call a truce if I agree not to build the Cloning Vats. After all, we only need one of me..... |
| Rigil_Kentaurus |
posted 06-11-99 07:35 AM ET
Well, yes, you have both made fools of yourselves, but I enjoyed reading it... Do it again some time and let me know. |
| DilithiumDad |
posted 06-11-99 03:27 PM ET
Well, you both right! (Ducks rotten fruit). We do need more music. And more LOW-LEVEL techs. And there should be something like tech stagnation where the upper techs are tougher to get --the high techs all go by in a blur, possible because of the network backbone (an overpowered SP). When you are getting tow techs a turn, how can you possibly implement them? Who has ever REALLY made use of a psi gate? And the Paradise Garden facility comes just before you are building the Telepathic Matrix and ending drone riots forever. There should be a faction with a defense bonus (Yang has it but never needs it) --maybe Morgan should get it. It would make them very tough to kill (you need 2x higher attack to take out their units). The AI would be in the game longer that way. I have posted other suggestions to enhance defense. Another factor that favor builders but not enough is the Prometheus Virus, Planet Blight and other events that are bad if you lack a facility and good if have a facility. These should havppen MUCH more often. They should be DEVASTATING to the conquistadors and a boon to the builders who actually have facilities in their bases. These are some simple tweaks that could be in Patch 4.0 as easily as in SMACX. |
| LoD |
posted 06-11-99 04:59 PM ET
Chronomog: Probe teams with lasers? IMHO giving them armor is enough. Applying weapons (like you suggested) would unbalance the game greatly - for a slightly higher mineral cost, those units would have an option of either attack or perform Covert Operations. jimmytrick: Gravships are very useful for several reasons: No offense, but, as Chronomog pointed out, you have no right to post opinions related to Transcendence Victory, when you always win by Conquest. If an issue does not apply to you, please don't flame people who have more experience in that specific field, because, well, they know better than you do. And you're boasting about beating the game in 55 turns. What map size was that on: Tiny?
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| Alkis |
posted 06-11-99 05:34 PM ET
I agree with jimmytrick. I think that instead of making expansion packs they should fix/complete the game we already paid for. I have many transcendence victories and all I can say is that many technologies are absolutely worthless. Quantum chamber, Singularity engine, Grav-ships, Habitation domes, Paradise gardens etc are not needed because Transcendent victory is just a step away. So you can build Grav-formers, big deal. What is the meaning of that? By that time you are probably researching a tech/round and you will transcend in a few years. So, permit me to say (again) that instead of putting in new "toys" they better make the ones already there usuable. The only thing I see differently is the music (sorry jimmytrick). Even we, Transcend Ironmen need something pleasing to the ear. P.S. I don't think that anyone of you has made a fool of himself. This thread is interesting. |
| Chronomog |
posted 06-11-99 05:35 PM ET
Well I have one main thing to say this is exactly what I wanted more input from more people and yes at the expense of me looking like a moron well i could care less. Let's see what we agree on and some new ideas *More techs but every after tech level has to require 50% more points like this E20 costs 50% less to get than E21 *New Music preferably on a CD soundtrack New Thoughts *Let's have certain SPs get cancelled out by new techs live CIV2 did. *We do need more infrastructure for our bases I had an idea which consisted of having a kelp farm version of a hybrid forest *Also new types of terraforming will be nice in the game maybe grasslands and so on. *Fix the idea of giving the probeteams weapons and replace it with special abilities exclusive to probe teams *Maybe we could have a second level of a probe team like CIV2 has spies and diplomats AC could have probes and ? *Maybe we could have a little roster of factions to play like more than 7 or just 7 factions. But you can select multiple ones to play against like CIV2 had 21 maybe we could have 14. *More Social engineering structural tables so we can customize our government more to our liking.
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| Goobmeister |
posted 06-11-99 06:36 PM ET
About 7 more factions are coming at least that was mentioned as a strong possibility (the plan) by a Firaxian a while back. New better music would be nice but not at the expense of better game play. I agree with jt. new elements should be added if and only if they make the game more balanced so that we can use all the features there. It would be soooo nice if in a game where I have not gone out of my way to hanicapp myself the game was in balance until the end. I think the only original suggestion I agree with is more council agendas. The Biggest single improvement would be to make the game so that a 2P game one a standard map with average settings the pure builder would have an equal chance to the pure conqueror. Giving Defense a boost and making higher techs and weapons harder and more expensive to come by, is a good start. Goob |
| jimmytrick |
posted 06-11-99 08:09 PM ET
LoD, Just to keep the record straight: I am a builder and the majority of my games are won by transcendance. I said "essentially conquered" and "developed to the point that you are so strong that you are unbeatable". Once you have supremacy the game really is over and becomes mechanical. Sure, I can use gravships to go thru the motions of conquest or whatever. But I find it tedious. And if you will be so kind as to point out where I said that I beat the game in 55 turns I would appreciate it. I have a tendency to play Devil's Avocate sometimes. I think Chronomog gets it. No offense intended. We have generated some good thoughts and I hope Firaxis sees them. I hope you guys get your music, I just don't care about it. DD: That is a interesting idea, frequent events that hamper conquerors because of a lack of facilities and infrastructure. I had not thought about this. Limited to larger bases maybe (to exempt new bases)? jimmytrick SMAC ON! |
| LoD |
posted 06-12-99 09:10 AM ET
jimmytrick: It seems I have made a fool of myself. First of all, I misread the quick kill part. Sorry for that. I also apologize for prejudicing my opinion about the style you play. I really need to learn when to keep my mouth shut  .*New Chassis - Grav Lifter:
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| Rimmer |
posted 06-12-99 01:00 PM ET
Just a few things. 1) You all own computers do you not own stereos. Put in your backstreet boys and celene dion and listen to them whine rather than whine about not having a soundtrack. 2)If the game is not challenging enough for you change the rules.txt and faction profiles.ex. AI too easy to beat give all opposing factions (not yourself) sharetech 1 and see how you fair. 3) There is no third thing. 4) Some of your posts are very long. Does this mean middle school is out in your county? |
| LoD |
posted 06-12-99 04:12 PM ET
Oh, one more thing (I'm not sure if somebody has come up with it earlier): *Transit/Station Right (diplomatic option): What the title says - the right to station in or move units through faction territory. There would be 4 levels: 1. A unit can stay in the base's range only for the time it takes it to move through the longest/toughest distance in it in a straight line (e.g. later called "transit distance"; for infantry this would be 6 modified by roads, tubes). No air units inside. 2. Same as above, except that air units can station for 2 turns. 3. Ground/naval units can stay in the base's range for the transit distance value + 2-4 turns/air units - 5 turns. 4. Units can station forever. Rimmer: The alpha.txt cannot be changed ad infinitum. This way you'll make the game tougher but not challenging (I hope you know what I mean). Could you answer this question - what would satisfy you more: beating a stupid AI with so many bonuses it's almost invincible, or beating an AI so devilishly clever that's almost invincible. LoD |
| Rimmer |
posted 06-13-99 01:26 AM ET
Artificial Intellegence in itself is a misnomer. Stupid and clever are human characteristics. The game can only make a series of preset logical choices. When you play at transcend level all you are doing is handicapping yourself and aiding the computer. i believe it is very satisfying to persevere against a vastly superior opponent. Make life difficult for yourself the challage is worth it. If you want stupid and the occasional intellegent opponent play multiplayer. You want to make it even harded. I know someone who every 20 years assigns each faction a number and rolls a die to see who he will play for the next 20. He never knows what he will have next. I don't do this but it sounds interesting. AJR BSC SSC |
| LoD |
posted 06-13-99 04:12 AM ET
Rimmer: I you were to read my last post more carefully, you would find out that I'm aware of those things. Actually, the AI is always stupid (because it can't evolve, at least not now), but it can be more or less perfect. IMHO the one in SMAC is good, although it *could* be better. "If you want stupid and the occasional intelligent opponent play multiplayer." BTW, to clear things up: I don't state that the AI should be improved in an expansion pack. It should be improved in a patch. LoD |
| Singularity |
posted 06-13-99 08:30 AM ET
Although I hate to praise CtP, there is one thing I would like to see in SMAC that they used. First off, MORE TECHS. Second, CtP has lots of stuff for space and in the sea. A lot of it is messed up like the rest of the game, but I definately want to see that kind of variety. There's just so much. I want bases, ships, everything for space. I also want more victories, like aliens, and one where you return a probe to earth. Finally, the scenario builder. It's so pathetic that I just shake my head in sorrow for even thinking I could build one. I want a better scenario builder, more like civ2, I want to draw my own units. |
| Rimmer |
posted 06-14-99 12:30 AM ET
LoD Sorry I was skimming through several messages and had just gotten home from a winery tour. That is what I call drinking 2+ bottles of wine. Anyway I saw other comments and attributed them to you. And Yes YES I HATE THE WORLD. WHEN I TAKE OVER I WILL PLAY CHESS WITH ALL OF YOUR SEVERED GENITALS!!!!! (That was added to keep my reputation bad.) Ooohhhh the critic is on AJR BSC SSC |
| Chronomog |
posted 06-14-99 10:24 AM ET
My view on the AI. If you guys want a hard AI. Listen up. It starts out with minor intelligence loss. After you do things in your base it will look at itself and mimic your actions and be learning from you after the initial 50 turns, it then starts to build out it's own little strategy. It is still sort of paying attention to you and still mimicing your actions. It will then understand the meaning of the word Blitzkrieg and the word Flanking. If you do something in space like launch a defense pod it will think oh thats a great idea and then log up all the idle cities to build defense pods. If also shall start out with basic priority levels for Secret projects to get. Like I always want the Nano Factory, Tele Matrix, Hunter seeker, and the Empath guild. It will then start to prioritize things. Here's a great idea. In the city status thing you can select all cities and have them all build one paticular thing. |
| Aceron |
posted 06-14-99 11:14 AM ET
Well, aside from any meaningful contribution to the debate. I'll just throw out a random idea for the probe team ability everyone mentioned. When bumping into a stack of units, give them a special mission option: Another possible mission; And optionally, after a certain tech level, Probe teams would gain the ability to escape when attacked. It would be a simple mission success contest, again weighing morale very heavily, when an enemy unit attacks a probe team. If the Probe team succeeded, they would retreat to the nearest spot outside of enemy detection. |
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