Phenomena : Vanishing Rivers and Mutating Terrain

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Author Topic:   Phenomena : Vanishing Rivers and Mutating Terrain

Nell_Smith posted 06-03-99 04:18 PM ET
Anyone else noticed these oddities?
1. I started a new game today and made Planetfall right on top of a long river that extended out of the base radius in both directions. Great, I thought, and sent my scout unit off downriver to hunt pods. After one move (three squares of river traversed), half of the river vanished and I was left with a sorry little stream that extended for only two squares from my base and stopped dead in the middle of a grass tile (no sea coast in sight). This was in M.Y. 2102, so I hardly think any other factions could have done any kind of terraforming that would have caused this.
2. During several of my games, I've noticed that opening a pod can sometimes make changes to nearby terrain - not necessarily neighbouring tiles, but those within, say, a 10-tile radius. Sometimes the terrain type alters, e.g. becomes moist instead of wet, and sometimes the altitudes of one or more tiles alters, usually upwards rather than downwards. These are ordinary minerals/nutrients pods I'm referring to, not the ones that unleash earthquakes or fungal blooms, set up farms/mines/solar collectors, or tap rivers, which I suppose *could* alter the terrain of the surrounding tiles. Incidentally, the pods that most often seem to cause odd terrain alterations are ones that reveal either monoliths or alien artifacts. Weird.
Anyone else seen anything like this?
Cheers,
Nell
Gixxer posted 06-03-99 05:05 PM ET
I haven't seen that, but I did see something very wierd on my friends game. He is late in a transcend game and several PB's have been tossed around. He is spending most of his time trying (in vain) to raise his the terrain to keep above water.
The wierd stuff is there are several ocean tiles that appear to be falling out of the bottom. Like one side is hinged and it's dropped 15 degrees down. When he flies a needlejet over this terrain it (the needlejet) flips upside down.
Have you seen that one?
marc420w posted 06-03-99 05:05 PM ET
I'm pretty sure I've seen the vanishing river, but I'm not sure what version I was playing with at the time. Definately know I've explored and placed cities thinking a river was there, then only to come back later and think "hey, wait a minute......".
Darkstar posted 06-03-99 05:21 PM ET
It sounds like the Base caused a terraforming event, after which the river changed course. This sounds REASONABLE, as there is no telling what they had to block off and change. But I would hate to lose a beautiful long river.
-Darkstar
trippin daily posted 06-03-99 06:53 PM ET
I think you all are weird, and do drugs. That is why you see such stupid stuff. I'm so disgusted in all of you. Resorting to drugs like that. Especially you Nell. I thought you went to rave's drug free, but now ytour beginning to 'see' these things that do not exist. It is sad to see that happen to people.
Trippin Daily
-ok ok ok, so I'm full of ****, bug deal -
Submachinegun posted 06-03-99 07:15 PM ET
Yeah, bug deal!
Nell_Smith posted 06-03-99 08:29 PM ET
Gixxer:
Nope, never seen anything as weird as that!! Upside down needlejets?? err...
Darkstar:
You could be right... although I've built plenty of bases on rivers before now, and nothing's happened to the river as far as I could tell. Maybe it's because it was my first base, or something? Hmmmm
Trip:
C'mon, you know as well as I do that nobody who goes to raves takes drugs. They just chant weird mantras to fire up their own natural adrenaline, which enables them to jump up and down non-stop for 18 hours. Anybody could do it. Drugs? The very thought of it. Ha.
Nell... overdosing on Star Wars websites... hehehe
Provost Harrison posted 06-04-99 09:08 PM ET
I must be very naive, I have never seen any of this kind of thing going on.
MichaeltheGreat posted 06-04-99 09:31 PM ET
Nell and Dark Star
A couple of times I've seen rivers change course when noone was around, with the map visible option on - I could see the river and the landform, and when it changed I assumed somebody was there, so I sent a foil and rover over to investigate - nobody was home, so I opened an autosave file and popped it into scenario editor, and it had changed spontaneously - nothing was there to trip any pods.
Hmmmmmm...
Koshko posted 06-04-99 10:58 PM ET
I've had a sudden river reroute one turn after a hydroponics pod. I searched a pod, and it created a river. The river went downhill ending at my coastal base, which was on another river. On The very next turn, the podmade river shifted, and it flowed into the Ocean a couple of squares away from where it was previously.
Shining1 posted 06-04-99 11:33 PM ET
The pods are just strange. The worst example was a game where the effects kept 'following' another rover. So I'd open a pod of mindworms, and they would appear 10 squares away, surrounding the unfortunate vehicle.
SMAC is quite possibly the most badly wired game in recent memory - it's complexity make it so, but there are just too many things that go on for me to think otherwise.
JAMstillAM posted 06-05-99 12:24 AM ET
You've all missed the most obvious and logical, within the framework of the game, reason for this. Planet is sentient. Now... if you were listening to Deirdre's words during the voice-overs, you'd know that. Planet is messing with your minds. And, doing a mighty fine job at it, I might add.
JAMiAM
MichaeltheGreat posted 06-05-99 01:22 AM ET
Plus anybody whose flown over the mighty Mississip' can attest to the fact that rivers like to change their course every now and again. This most likely is just a part of the random events stuff. Whether it's buggy or not, who can say? No, don't answer that.
Darkstar posted 06-05-99 01:30 AM ET
Nell...
Yesterday, I started a new game. It set me down *beside* a river (one tile away). The base tile was sloped to match the mountain face. After the first turn, the Base LAND changed from sloped (as in /) to flat (as in -), and the river changed course. I think more and more it points towards early base works...
And on a related thought, has anyone seen the land ERODE? I have seen several hills and mounts slip in height. Not global warming causing a change in sea levels, just a small erosion. Could it be? Maybe I was just imagining it...
-Darkstar
JAMstillAM posted 06-05-99 02:01 AM ET
I've seen the Earth breathe, the clouds dance a painted book into the sky. The wind has surrounded me and the whispering of far off trees told me where I would fly. Of course, in those days, LSD was cheap and pure. Gotta love this game.
JAMiAM
Ps Notice how soon DS posted after the word "bug" appeared in this thread? Eerie.
JAMstillAM posted 06-05-99 02:04 AM ET
Sorry, "buggy", for the pedantically inclined.
JAMiAM
MichaeltheGreat posted 06-05-99 02:06 AM ET
Darkstar - I've seen what looks like erosion on occasion, and lots of spontaneous changes in moisture on tiles some distance from any development, and before anybody puts up a million boreholes or condensers. So I think its a safe bet that planet is a little dynamically active.
Nell_Smith posted 06-05-99 03:51 AM ET
Yep, I think that perhaps some erosion does go on, as I've seen spontaneous terrain changes (in terms of lowering altitude as well as moisture changes, which I guess would be related to said lower altitude) quite a few times, that couldn't have been caused by any terraforming.
However, I got the river thing again today, only this time it was many turns after the foundation of a base... a river miles from any bases just suddenly half-disappeared, so that instead of ending at the sea, it ended in the middle of nowhere. I'd done no terraforming at all by then. Weird.
And there's definitely a correlation between opening pods and terrain changing... although like I mentioned, the nearby terrain usually goes UP in altitude, not down!!
Surely there are more things in Heaven and Chiron than are dreamt of in our philosophy...
Nell
Nell_Smith posted 06-05-99 03:52 AM ET
Yep, I think that perhaps some erosion does go on, as I've seen spontaneous terrain changes (in terms of lowering altitude as well as moisture changes, which I guess would be related to said lower altitude) quite a few times, that couldn't have been caused by any terraforming.
However, I got the river thing again today, only this time it was many turns after the foundation of a base... a river miles from any bases just suddenly half-disappeared, so that instead of ending at the sea, it ended in the middle of nowhere. I'd done no terraforming at all by then. Weird.
And there's definitely a correlation between opening pods and terrain changing... although like I mentioned, the nearby terrain usually goes UP in altitude, not down!!
Surely there are more things in Heaven and Chiron than are dreamt of in our philosophy...
Nell
chagarra posted 06-05-99 07:37 AM ET
NELL
WHY OH WHY Did you have to notice this aberrent behaviour.
I had never noticed it before, tonight here same river disappears twice ( saved both times )
Scenario ... Set down in very fertile valley, send out scouts for pod lotto, come to circular river around Mt Planet, oodles of pods, go pod popping gleefully, one pod gave forest squares (hydroponics), two sections of river bank very fertile, first time, build city, produce scouts and colony pod, river scans offscreen...... OOPs no river, in between turns. Saved pre and post. Go back to much earlier save, continue game. This time have two cities on river .... Bye Bye river.
You sure you haven't been practising voodoo or Centauri Psi at these raves, or is it contagious reading your posts
Nell_Smith posted 06-05-99 10:02 AM ET
chagarra:
Hey I wish I hadn't noticed it either... since first posting, this has now happened to me three times!! So yeah it must be catching... I've even managed to transmit it to myself!!
Nell... it's Centauri Psi, but not as you know it... hehehe
Purple posted 06-05-99 12:46 PM ET
Gixxer: I've seen the broken terrain you describe ("several ocean tiles that appear to be falling out of the bottom. Like one side is hinged and it's dropped 15 degrees down. When he flies a needlejet over this terrain it (the needlejet) flips upside down.") I posted a message on this subject, oh, I guess a month ago, under the subject "Crack in the World." The context was a rising sea level.
I saw it again when I was trying to edit a custom-made map. If I remember correctly, I was lowering the coastline of an isthmus on the southeast side of Sunny Mesa.
I've never seen flipping needlejets, though. Next time this oddity appears, I'll try sending one to reconnoiter.
Jay posted 06-05-99 02:59 PM ET
Haven't seen any of those things happen, but something else weird happened: my Echelon mirror transformed into a Borehole.
And sometimes later in the game most of the arid squares transform into rainy&rocky for no visible reason.
Delgath posted 06-05-99 11:43 PM ET
I've seen a Rubber Band. But I ain't seen an elephant fly.
-Del.
Where do you want to colonize today?
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Author	Topic: Phenomena : Vanishing Rivers and Mutating Terrain
Nell_Smith	posted 06-03-99 04:18 PM ET Anyone else noticed these oddities? 1. I started a new game today and made Planetfall right on top of a long river that extended out of the base radius in both directions. Great, I thought, and sent my scout unit off downriver to hunt pods. After one move (three squares of river traversed), half of the river vanished and I was left with a sorry little stream that extended for only two squares from my base and stopped dead in the middle of a grass tile (no sea coast in sight). This was in M.Y. 2102, so I hardly think any other factions could have done any kind of terraforming that would have caused this. 2. During several of my games, I've noticed that opening a pod can sometimes make changes to nearby terrain - not necessarily neighbouring tiles, but those within, say, a 10-tile radius. Sometimes the terrain type alters, e.g. becomes moist instead of wet, and sometimes the altitudes of one or more tiles alters, usually upwards rather than downwards. These are ordinary minerals/nutrients pods I'm referring to, not the ones that unleash earthquakes or fungal blooms, set up farms/mines/solar collectors, or tap rivers, which I suppose could alter the terrain of the surrounding tiles. Incidentally, the pods that most often seem to cause odd terrain alterations are ones that reveal either monoliths or alien artifacts. Weird. Anyone else seen anything like this? Cheers, Nell
Gixxer	posted 06-03-99 05:05 PM ET I haven't seen that, but I did see something very wierd on my friends game. He is late in a transcend game and several PB's have been tossed around. He is spending most of his time trying (in vain) to raise his the terrain to keep above water. The wierd stuff is there are several ocean tiles that appear to be falling out of the bottom. Like one side is hinged and it's dropped 15 degrees down. When he flies a needlejet over this terrain it (the needlejet) flips upside down. Have you seen that one?
marc420w	posted 06-03-99 05:05 PM ET I'm pretty sure I've seen the vanishing river, but I'm not sure what version I was playing with at the time. Definately know I've explored and placed cities thinking a river was there, then only to come back later and think "hey, wait a minute......".
Darkstar	posted 06-03-99 05:21 PM ET It sounds like the Base caused a terraforming event, after which the river changed course. This sounds REASONABLE, as there is no telling what they had to block off and change. But I would hate to lose a beautiful long river. -Darkstar
trippin daily	posted 06-03-99 06:53 PM ET I think you all are weird, and do drugs. That is why you see such stupid stuff. I'm so disgusted in all of you. Resorting to drugs like that. Especially you Nell. I thought you went to rave's drug free, but now ytour beginning to 'see' these things that do not exist. It is sad to see that happen to people. Trippin Daily -ok ok ok, so I'm full of ****, bug deal -
Submachinegun	posted 06-03-99 07:15 PM ET Yeah, bug deal!
Nell_Smith	posted 06-03-99 08:29 PM ET Gixxer: Nope, never seen anything as weird as that!! Upside down needlejets?? err... Darkstar: You could be right... although I've built plenty of bases on rivers before now, and nothing's happened to the river as far as I could tell. Maybe it's because it was my first base, or something? Hmmmm Trip: C'mon, you know as well as I do that nobody who goes to raves takes drugs. They just chant weird mantras to fire up their own natural adrenaline, which enables them to jump up and down non-stop for 18 hours. Anybody could do it. Drugs? The very thought of it. Ha. Nell... overdosing on Star Wars websites... hehehe
Provost Harrison	posted 06-04-99 09:08 PM ET I must be very naive, I have never seen any of this kind of thing going on.
MichaeltheGreat	posted 06-04-99 09:31 PM ET Nell and Dark Star A couple of times I've seen rivers change course when noone was around, with the map visible option on - I could see the river and the landform, and when it changed I assumed somebody was there, so I sent a foil and rover over to investigate - nobody was home, so I opened an autosave file and popped it into scenario editor, and it had changed spontaneously - nothing was there to trip any pods. Hmmmmmm...
Koshko	posted 06-04-99 10:58 PM ET I've had a sudden river reroute one turn after a hydroponics pod. I searched a pod, and it created a river. The river went downhill ending at my coastal base, which was on another river. On The very next turn, the podmade river shifted, and it flowed into the Ocean a couple of squares away from where it was previously.
Shining1	posted 06-04-99 11:33 PM ET The pods are just strange. The worst example was a game where the effects kept 'following' another rover. So I'd open a pod of mindworms, and they would appear 10 squares away, surrounding the unfortunate vehicle. SMAC is quite possibly the most badly wired game in recent memory - it's complexity make it so, but there are just too many things that go on for me to think otherwise.
JAMstillAM	posted 06-05-99 12:24 AM ET You've all missed the most obvious and logical, within the framework of the game, reason for this. Planet is sentient. Now... if you were listening to Deirdre's words during the voice-overs, you'd know that. Planet is messing with your minds. And, doing a mighty fine job at it, I might add. JAMiAM
MichaeltheGreat	posted 06-05-99 01:22 AM ET Plus anybody whose flown over the mighty Mississip' can attest to the fact that rivers like to change their course every now and again. This most likely is just a part of the random events stuff. Whether it's buggy or not, who can say? No, don't answer that.
Darkstar	posted 06-05-99 01:30 AM ET Nell... Yesterday, I started a new game. It set me down beside a river (one tile away). The base tile was sloped to match the mountain face. After the first turn, the Base LAND changed from sloped (as in /) to flat (as in -), and the river changed course. I think more and more it points towards early base works... And on a related thought, has anyone seen the land ERODE? I have seen several hills and mounts slip in height. Not global warming causing a change in sea levels, just a small erosion. Could it be? Maybe I was just imagining it... -Darkstar
JAMstillAM	posted 06-05-99 02:01 AM ET I've seen the Earth breathe, the clouds dance a painted book into the sky. The wind has surrounded me and the whispering of far off trees told me where I would fly. Of course, in those days, LSD was cheap and pure. Gotta love this game. JAMiAM Ps Notice how soon DS posted after the word "bug" appeared in this thread? Eerie.
JAMstillAM	posted 06-05-99 02:04 AM ET Sorry, "buggy", for the pedantically inclined. JAMiAM
MichaeltheGreat	posted 06-05-99 02:06 AM ET Darkstar - I've seen what looks like erosion on occasion, and lots of spontaneous changes in moisture on tiles some distance from any development, and before anybody puts up a million boreholes or condensers. So I think its a safe bet that planet is a little dynamically active.
Nell_Smith	posted 06-05-99 03:51 AM ET Yep, I think that perhaps some erosion does go on, as I've seen spontaneous terrain changes (in terms of lowering altitude as well as moisture changes, which I guess would be related to said lower altitude) quite a few times, that couldn't have been caused by any terraforming. However, I got the river thing again today, only this time it was many turns after the foundation of a base... a river miles from any bases just suddenly half-disappeared, so that instead of ending at the sea, it ended in the middle of nowhere. I'd done no terraforming at all by then. Weird. And there's definitely a correlation between opening pods and terrain changing... although like I mentioned, the nearby terrain usually goes UP in altitude, not down!! Surely there are more things in Heaven and Chiron than are dreamt of in our philosophy... Nell
Nell_Smith	posted 06-05-99 03:52 AM ET Yep, I think that perhaps some erosion does go on, as I've seen spontaneous terrain changes (in terms of lowering altitude as well as moisture changes, which I guess would be related to said lower altitude) quite a few times, that couldn't have been caused by any terraforming. However, I got the river thing again today, only this time it was many turns after the foundation of a base... a river miles from any bases just suddenly half-disappeared, so that instead of ending at the sea, it ended in the middle of nowhere. I'd done no terraforming at all by then. Weird. And there's definitely a correlation between opening pods and terrain changing... although like I mentioned, the nearby terrain usually goes UP in altitude, not down!! Surely there are more things in Heaven and Chiron than are dreamt of in our philosophy... Nell
chagarra	posted 06-05-99 07:37 AM ET NELL WHY OH WHY Did you have to notice this aberrent behaviour. I had never noticed it before, tonight here same river disappears twice ( saved both times ) Scenario ... Set down in very fertile valley, send out scouts for pod lotto, come to circular river around Mt Planet, oodles of pods, go pod popping gleefully, one pod gave forest squares (hydroponics), two sections of river bank very fertile, first time, build city, produce scouts and colony pod, river scans offscreen...... OOPs no river, in between turns. Saved pre and post. Go back to much earlier save, continue game. This time have two cities on river .... Bye Bye river. You sure you haven't been practising voodoo or Centauri Psi at these raves, or is it contagious reading your posts
Nell_Smith	posted 06-05-99 10:02 AM ET chagarra: Hey I wish I hadn't noticed it either... since first posting, this has now happened to me three times!! So yeah it must be catching... I've even managed to transmit it to myself!! Nell... it's Centauri Psi, but not as you know it... hehehe
Purple	posted 06-05-99 12:46 PM ET Gixxer: I've seen the broken terrain you describe ("several ocean tiles that appear to be falling out of the bottom. Like one side is hinged and it's dropped 15 degrees down. When he flies a needlejet over this terrain it (the needlejet) flips upside down.") I posted a message on this subject, oh, I guess a month ago, under the subject "Crack in the World." The context was a rising sea level. I saw it again when I was trying to edit a custom-made map. If I remember correctly, I was lowering the coastline of an isthmus on the southeast side of Sunny Mesa. I've never seen flipping needlejets, though. Next time this oddity appears, I'll try sending one to reconnoiter.
Jay	posted 06-05-99 02:59 PM ET Haven't seen any of those things happen, but something else weird happened: my Echelon mirror transformed into a Borehole. And sometimes later in the game most of the arid squares transform into rainy&rocky for no visible reason.
Delgath	posted 06-05-99 11:43 PM ET I've seen a Rubber Band. But I ain't seen an elephant fly. -Del. Where do you want to colonize today?