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Author Topic:   Eco-friendly bases...are possible!

Univarse9 posted 06-03-99 01:05 AM ET
I started thinking bout a solution and pow! Got one just as global warming started(I quickly proposed a solar shade). I started another game as the Gaians and did the following to be used at all bases.
1)Build Tree Farm&Hybrid Forest.
2)Build Centauri Preserve&Temple Of Planet.
3)Rely ONLY on forests for resources(and nothing else! No mines for rocky squares either.)For ocean squares, use fungus.
4)Build Pholus Mutagen, Singularity Inducter and Xenoempathy Dome(ta counter negative movement in fungus squares).
5)Use Green Economics and Cybernetic society choices.
*********************************************This idea may result in hunger at your bases but your base facilities ought to be able to handle it, besides when you get Orbital Spaceflight, Advanced Spaceflight and Self-aware Machines, start building orbital improvements to increase resources. AND GUESS WHAT? I only got a 0 or 1 for eco-damage at all bases! Keep plenty of terraforming units on standby though, in case Planet decides to make the fungus grow. Still wonderin how I possibly could get a 1 eco-damage rating.
MichaeltheGreat posted 06-03-99 02:04 AM ET
Ecodamage also is affected by play level, and other factors, including total population and others, IIRC.
Darkstar posted 06-03-99 03:42 PM ET
Techs known seem to have a large effect on general pop's eco-damage total. Just as in CivII just the advance itself was enough to raise your people from clean livers to serious polluters.
-Darkstar
Oleg Leschoff posted 06-03-99 05:11 PM ET
I used to just plant forests everywhere very often. What I got? VERY high pollution. Every square gives 2 minerals. Minerals production after 15 minerals (in the end of game -- 20) causes ecodamage [just after patch 3 -- before it, I could have 100+ minerals producing base with no ecodamage]
IMHO, there're two solutions.
First. Build cities at maximum distance between neighbours of 2 tiles.
Second. Don't build forests at all (well, maybe in arid sites below 1000 elevation), instead build farm+solar collector everywhere, and don't forget to build hybrid forest to eliminate terraforming ecodamage. This is good strategy for Morgan, who is used to buy all facilities. In addition, this gives much more energy if sites are above 2000 elevation. The problem is nutrients, but I think that to the time when this becomes problem (hybrid forests available, so you could get 3 nutrients there) you'll be able to build Cloning Vats and sky hydroponics.
Darkstar: You should think about phase of moon -- it definitely has some influence.
Univarse9 posted 06-03-99 09:14 PM ET
Thank you all for your advice!!!
By the way, how do put those yellow smiley/angry/embarassed faces in your replies?
Univarse9 posted 06-03-99 09:15 PM ET
Woops! Sorry bout that question about the faces! Very sorry! :[
Nell_Smith posted 06-03-99 09:17 PM ET
Univarse:
It's in the FAQ link at the top of the page.
Nell
Univarse9 posted 06-03-99 10:31 PM ET
Tanks you! Tanks you! Mr N_S!!!
Dim Cat posted 06-03-99 10:40 PM ET
Actually, I used the same strategy as Univarse9 described all the time (and I even mine rocky tiles) and got bases with 100-117 minerals in v.3.0 without ecodamage (depends on the base size too). I didn't built all the mineral bonus facilities though. That probably would've been overkill.
Koshko posted 06-04-99 12:31 AM ET
If you pick up all of the EcoSavers, you can build all of the Mineral-enhancing Facilities in many of your cities w/o any real EcoDamage. On naturally high Mineral producers, you'll have some Eco problems. Avoid doing this in Borehole cities.
I plant forest in every square with an elevation below 1000+ that isn't Rocky with Mineral deposits. I also plant on every square above 1000+ that isn't Rolling Terrain. They get the Farm/Solar/Road. For the sea squares, I plant Kelp and add solar cells. Sea Mines are only needed for Sea Colony that have minimal land squares.
Submachinegun posted 06-04-99 04:08 AM ET
Mr. Nell_Smith? err... I think it's Ms. Nell_Smith, or maybe Mrs. Nell_Smith?
Cameleon posted 06-04-99 07:07 AM ET
I still think the eco-damage is far too severe. When I play a game where I develop all my cities (ultra-builder) to the max, I get so much minerals that the worms just keep popping in. It's just no fun, all the turns take forever. I've tried everything, but it doesn't help.
Why is it that when the game allows you to build all kinds of facilities that cause eco-damage, there is no way to remove it again?
I think an option to turn off (or considerably turn down) planet would be an option greatly appreciated by a lot of players.
Eris posted 06-04-99 09:43 AM ET
There /are/ ways to lower ecodamage. They were even listed in the start of this thread.
As for turning down Planet, uh... wouldn't that take away a lot of what makes this game.. if not unique, certainly pretty different?
*shrug* YMMV.
I've had cities producing 50+ minerals with no eco-damage. Forests and Fungus and orbital improvements, oh my!
Aredhran posted 06-04-99 10:37 AM ET
Hehehehe, reading this reminded my very first SMAC game, back in February... Citizen University. I had a base in the middle of Garland Crater, size 20+, heavily forested, crawlers bringing minerals back home, with all the mineral output improvements built. The thing was cranking out something like 150 minerals per turn, with only about 10-15 ecodamage (with all the "green" stuff)... Ah, the joys of citizen
Aredhran
Rackam posted 06-04-99 10:44 AM ET
Just finished a game where I had a modified mineral production of 553 and an eco-damage of 402 and I was getting 3000+ energy out of the worm stacks.
~Rackam
Borehole on
Provost Harrison posted 06-04-99 08:13 PM ET
That's a lot of mind worms. Got 1500 out of them once though, earlier on this evening, in fact. The Pholus Mutagen is a great help on clean cities, but when things like the Singularity Inductor or The Bulk Matter Transmitter are built, you must check your bases (especially with patch 3?!). Otherwise you'll be up to your neck (or higher) in fungus and mindworms.
Univarse9 posted 06-08-99 11:21 AM ET
Strange, but I thought the Singularity Inductor reduces eco-damage(Check the datalinks). If yer talkin bout the quantum converter...check what I said up there. Sorry I couldn't reply all this while, had a little problem with the modem.

LoD posted 06-08-99 01:20 PM ET
Univarse9: Practically, the Inductor counts as a Converter in all your bases, thus increasing the mineral output. That in turn creates more eco-damage, which is only lessened (but not nullified) by the Inductor's other effect.
LoD
Univarse9 posted 06-08-99 09:58 PM ET
Okay then, then why not in the 4.0 patch, the datalinks tell us how much eco-damage each facility pumps out? Scrap and recycle 'em all!
DilithiumDad posted 06-09-99 02:26 PM ET
More suggestions.
Crawlers are a real help. Remember that polusiotn is based on how many minerals are in base production, not necessarily what's being produced within the base radius. Set the home base of a crawler to a new small low-producing colony. New send it over to a mine in the high-prodicing polluting colony, press "o" and have it transport the minerals back to the small base. Also, you can have a crawler transport minerals from the polluting base to a small base. This reduces pollution and accelerates growth and development of small bases. It's also flexible, as your colony changes or if you get the Pholus Mutagen (which really seems to help).
In fact, I never have a citizen work a mine --only crawlers. If I have extra citizens I employ them as thinkers, empaths, or engineers.
Another key is to avoid builind the Robotic Assembly Plant or Genejack Factory in your highest-producing colonies. These facilities, with their 50% boost to minerals, are great for turning your medium-producers into high producers.
In a similar vein, watch out for the Space Elevator. It doubles mineral porduction during the building of orbital improvements and can trigger instant disaster. Always build orbital improvements in your medium or low-producing cities and leave your highest porducers for SP's etc.

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Author	Topic: Eco-friendly bases...are possible!
Univarse9	posted 06-03-99 01:05 AM ET I started thinking bout a solution and pow! Got one just as global warming started(I quickly proposed a solar shade). I started another game as the Gaians and did the following to be used at all bases. 1)Build Tree Farm&Hybrid Forest. 2)Build Centauri Preserve&Temple Of Planet. 3)Rely ONLY on forests for resources(and nothing else! No mines for rocky squares either.)For ocean squares, use fungus. 4)Build Pholus Mutagen, Singularity Inducter and Xenoempathy Dome(ta counter negative movement in fungus squares). 5)Use Green Economics and Cybernetic society choices. *********************************************This idea may result in hunger at your bases but your base facilities ought to be able to handle it, besides when you get Orbital Spaceflight, Advanced Spaceflight and Self-aware Machines, start building orbital improvements to increase resources. AND GUESS WHAT? I only got a 0 or 1 for eco-damage at all bases! Keep plenty of terraforming units on standby though, in case Planet decides to make the fungus grow. Still wonderin how I possibly could get a 1 eco-damage rating.
MichaeltheGreat	posted 06-03-99 02:04 AM ET Ecodamage also is affected by play level, and other factors, including total population and others, IIRC.
Darkstar	posted 06-03-99 03:42 PM ET Techs known seem to have a large effect on general pop's eco-damage total. Just as in CivII just the advance itself was enough to raise your people from clean livers to serious polluters. -Darkstar
Oleg Leschoff	posted 06-03-99 05:11 PM ET I used to just plant forests everywhere very often. What I got? VERY high pollution. Every square gives 2 minerals. Minerals production after 15 minerals (in the end of game -- 20) causes ecodamage [just after patch 3 -- before it, I could have 100+ minerals producing base with no ecodamage] IMHO, there're two solutions. First. Build cities at maximum distance between neighbours of 2 tiles. Second. Don't build forests at all (well, maybe in arid sites below 1000 elevation), instead build farm+solar collector everywhere, and don't forget to build hybrid forest to eliminate terraforming ecodamage. This is good strategy for Morgan, who is used to buy all facilities. In addition, this gives much more energy if sites are above 2000 elevation. The problem is nutrients, but I think that to the time when this becomes problem (hybrid forests available, so you could get 3 nutrients there) you'll be able to build Cloning Vats and sky hydroponics. Darkstar: You should think about phase of moon -- it definitely has some influence.
Univarse9	posted 06-03-99 09:14 PM ET Thank you all for your advice!!! By the way, how do put those yellow smiley/angry/embarassed faces in your replies?
Univarse9	posted 06-03-99 09:15 PM ET Woops! Sorry bout that question about the faces! Very sorry! :[
Nell_Smith	posted 06-03-99 09:17 PM ET Univarse: It's in the FAQ link at the top of the page. Nell
Univarse9	posted 06-03-99 10:31 PM ET Tanks you! Tanks you! Mr N_S!!!
Dim Cat	posted 06-03-99 10:40 PM ET Actually, I used the same strategy as Univarse9 described all the time (and I even mine rocky tiles) and got bases with 100-117 minerals in v.3.0 without ecodamage (depends on the base size too). I didn't built all the mineral bonus facilities though. That probably would've been overkill.
Koshko	posted 06-04-99 12:31 AM ET If you pick up all of the EcoSavers, you can build all of the Mineral-enhancing Facilities in many of your cities w/o any real EcoDamage. On naturally high Mineral producers, you'll have some Eco problems. Avoid doing this in Borehole cities. I plant forest in every square with an elevation below 1000+ that isn't Rocky with Mineral deposits. I also plant on every square above 1000+ that isn't Rolling Terrain. They get the Farm/Solar/Road. For the sea squares, I plant Kelp and add solar cells. Sea Mines are only needed for Sea Colony that have minimal land squares.
Submachinegun	posted 06-04-99 04:08 AM ET Mr. Nell_Smith? err... I think it's Ms. Nell_Smith, or maybe Mrs. Nell_Smith?
Cameleon	posted 06-04-99 07:07 AM ET I still think the eco-damage is far too severe. When I play a game where I develop all my cities (ultra-builder) to the max, I get so much minerals that the worms just keep popping in. It's just no fun, all the turns take forever. I've tried everything, but it doesn't help. Why is it that when the game allows you to build all kinds of facilities that cause eco-damage, there is no way to remove it again? I think an option to turn off (or considerably turn down) planet would be an option greatly appreciated by a lot of players.
Eris	posted 06-04-99 09:43 AM ET There /are/ ways to lower ecodamage. They were even listed in the start of this thread. As for turning down Planet, uh... wouldn't that take away a lot of what makes this game.. if not unique, certainly pretty different? shrug YMMV. I've had cities producing 50+ minerals with no eco-damage. Forests and Fungus and orbital improvements, oh my!
Aredhran	posted 06-04-99 10:37 AM ET Hehehehe, reading this reminded my very first SMAC game, back in February... Citizen University. I had a base in the middle of Garland Crater, size 20+, heavily forested, crawlers bringing minerals back home, with all the mineral output improvements built. The thing was cranking out something like 150 minerals per turn, with only about 10-15 ecodamage (with all the "green" stuff)... Ah, the joys of citizen Aredhran
Rackam	posted 06-04-99 10:44 AM ET Just finished a game where I had a modified mineral production of 553 and an eco-damage of 402 and I was getting 3000+ energy out of the worm stacks. ~Rackam Borehole on
Provost Harrison	posted 06-04-99 08:13 PM ET That's a lot of mind worms. Got 1500 out of them once though, earlier on this evening, in fact. The Pholus Mutagen is a great help on clean cities, but when things like the Singularity Inductor or The Bulk Matter Transmitter are built, you must check your bases (especially with patch 3?!). Otherwise you'll be up to your neck (or higher) in fungus and mindworms.
Univarse9	posted 06-08-99 11:21 AM ET Strange, but I thought the Singularity Inductor reduces eco-damage(Check the datalinks). If yer talkin bout the quantum converter...check what I said up there. Sorry I couldn't reply all this while, had a little problem with the modem.
LoD	posted 06-08-99 01:20 PM ET Univarse9: Practically, the Inductor counts as a Converter in all your bases, thus increasing the mineral output. That in turn creates more eco-damage, which is only lessened (but not nullified) by the Inductor's other effect. LoD
Univarse9	posted 06-08-99 09:58 PM ET Okay then, then why not in the 4.0 patch, the datalinks tell us how much eco-damage each facility pumps out? Scrap and recycle 'em all!
DilithiumDad	posted 06-09-99 02:26 PM ET More suggestions. Crawlers are a real help. Remember that polusiotn is based on how many minerals are in base production, not necessarily what's being produced within the base radius. Set the home base of a crawler to a new small low-producing colony. New send it over to a mine in the high-prodicing polluting colony, press "o" and have it transport the minerals back to the small base. Also, you can have a crawler transport minerals from the polluting base to a small base. This reduces pollution and accelerates growth and development of small bases. It's also flexible, as your colony changes or if you get the Pholus Mutagen (which really seems to help). In fact, I never have a citizen work a mine --only crawlers. If I have extra citizens I employ them as thinkers, empaths, or engineers. Another key is to avoid builind the Robotic Assembly Plant or Genejack Factory in your highest-producing colonies. These facilities, with their 50% boost to minerals, are great for turning your medium-producers into high producers. In a similar vein, watch out for the Space Elevator. It doubles mineral porduction during the building of orbital improvements and can trigger instant disaster. Always build orbital improvements in your medium or low-producing cities and leave your highest porducers for SP's etc.