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Author Topic:   Aren't you bored yet

chagarra posted 05-29-99 10:31 AM ET

By now it should be obvious to any SMACer... and judging by recent posts it is.
SMAC is a TOTALLY conquest oriented game.
Diplomacy, Pacts, Treaties, factions are all only window dressing for the A notso I's blatant biasing in this direction....
It's kill or be killed
Don't get me wrong, I'm a SMACaholic, It's the best TBS game in town.
BUT !!!!!
Basically, due to weapon strength imbalance, with three tech's, you have an A4 weapon system ( If you play Spartan it's also mobile, i.e. wheeled ).
With ten tech's, that is slightly more than level one alone, you have an A8 weapon system, and don't forget,three factions already receive one of these ten tech's for free.
AND
No, or minimal, penalties for breaking treaties, no diplomacy, other than "Give it to me or I'll take it, kamikaze factions, and an A notso I that states catagoricially that every other faction is your enemy, and then sets out to prove it.
So if we average each tech to 15 Yrs, it is only 2250 and you've been kicking butt since A4 weapons superiority, stealing tech, stealing or destroying cities, and generally creating mayhem, and by this stage of the game five elite chaos rovers can overrun almost any defense, it should be almost impossible to lose, given an even moderately adequate starting position.
No wonder the A notso I has to cheat.
No wonder the main threads of civIII wish lists are Diplomacy, real Trade, and penalties for transgressors.
If you're like me, by tech level six it's time to end the game, because the drag to transcendance with no competition is just so boring, all the fun is in the early buttkicking
Strangely SMAC has a similar feel to the original OUTPOST, NO NO NO not that crappy RTS that followed, the original, fantastic potential but mediocre execution, Sierra never got it right, at least Firaxis is trying to.
PS.... For you great MASS of DEBATERS out there I should warn you, I wear pure Australian merino fireproof suits, much better than ACME Mk4

jimmytrick posted 05-29-99 10:45 AM ET
If you are bored, chagarra, try my "take Moses to the Mountain" challenge. (my settings, not cousLee's somewhat easier version) I guarantee you a much tougher, more engrossing game.
If you have trouble finding the specs, e-mail me.
tfs99 posted 05-29-99 01:00 PM ET
Welcome! So your suit is good, but what about your other equipment? You know I hear that Trippin Daily is always looking for offshore investors and franchisees for Flames R us.
SMAC n ... Ted S.
Darkstar posted 05-30-99 04:04 AM ET
Chagarra - So nice to hear from you. You won't get any arguments from me about that. I've been singing in the Choir for a while. The question is, while Outpost let you down, are you finding that SMAC is? Are you just playing to a little past critical mass and starting a new game?
An aside:
Outpost's problem to me was that you had to race to Nanotech before your mines ran out of resources. Everything else was secondary micromanagement issues. You either achieved Nanotechnology, and built a Nano facility, or you died. Waste of all those other items. The last patch of Outpost I have at least had a few of the hundred or so items in it that were promised (in the MANUAL) but weren't delivered. But that still doesn't change the base goal and only strategy to survive...
-Darkstar
chagarra posted 05-30-99 05:34 AM ET

Darkstar
Thanx for the intro.
As I said SMAC is great fun up to level six, from then on it's simpler to finish off the remnants, destruction or surrender, to end the game.
If you've read the designer's notes, it is understandable, originally a bull session to relax while making Gettysburg, using basic CIVII engines, then suddenly "We've got a go-ahead" knowing it didn't have what it takes ( I wont use the french version ), let' throw what we've got together, add diplomacy ???, still not enough, fancy up the graphics for the masses who only see the pretties, Ok stretch the finish and bore them to death, it wont show on the demo's and by then the're hooked on the playability of the early game.
This is only one scenario
Maybe CIVIII will be a STRATEGY..hope hope hope.. game.
RE OUTPOST
Even nanotech wasn't any guarantee of survival since they self destructed "en masse" regularly.... Multiple nano farms, grid spaced, and examined very, very often were required. But even then why bother, terraforming went beserk before doing anything, monorails could be built at enormous cost, to do what, colonies couldn't be linked, trucks couldn't be tracked, blah blah....
eNo posted 05-30-99 12:48 PM ET
Well there's always Transcendant victory. (or Economic or Diplomatic). I've managed to play most of my games without having to fight any major wars.
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Author	Topic: Aren't you bored yet
chagarra	posted 05-29-99 10:31 AM ET By now it should be obvious to any SMACer... and judging by recent posts it is. SMAC is a TOTALLY conquest oriented game. Diplomacy, Pacts, Treaties, factions are all only window dressing for the A notso I's blatant biasing in this direction.... It's kill or be killed Don't get me wrong, I'm a SMACaholic, It's the best TBS game in town. BUT !!!!! Basically, due to weapon strength imbalance, with three tech's, you have an A4 weapon system ( If you play Spartan it's also mobile, i.e. wheeled ). With ten tech's, that is slightly more than level one alone, you have an A8 weapon system, and don't forget,three factions already receive one of these ten tech's for free. AND No, or minimal, penalties for breaking treaties, no diplomacy, other than "Give it to me or I'll take it, kamikaze factions, and an A notso I that states catagoricially that every other faction is your enemy, and then sets out to prove it. So if we average each tech to 15 Yrs, it is only 2250 and you've been kicking butt since A4 weapons superiority, stealing tech, stealing or destroying cities, and generally creating mayhem, and by this stage of the game five elite chaos rovers can overrun almost any defense, it should be almost impossible to lose, given an even moderately adequate starting position. No wonder the A notso I has to cheat. No wonder the main threads of civIII wish lists are Diplomacy, real Trade, and penalties for transgressors. If you're like me, by tech level six it's time to end the game, because the drag to transcendance with no competition is just so boring, all the fun is in the early buttkicking Strangely SMAC has a similar feel to the original OUTPOST, NO NO NO not that crappy RTS that followed, the original, fantastic potential but mediocre execution, Sierra never got it right, at least Firaxis is trying to. PS.... For you great MASS of DEBATERS out there I should warn you, I wear pure Australian merino fireproof suits, much better than ACME Mk4
jimmytrick	posted 05-29-99 10:45 AM ET If you are bored, chagarra, try my "take Moses to the Mountain" challenge. (my settings, not cousLee's somewhat easier version) I guarantee you a much tougher, more engrossing game. If you have trouble finding the specs, e-mail me.
tfs99	posted 05-29-99 01:00 PM ET Welcome! So your suit is good, but what about your other equipment? You know I hear that Trippin Daily is always looking for offshore investors and franchisees for Flames R us. SMAC n ... Ted S.
Darkstar	posted 05-30-99 04:04 AM ET Chagarra - So nice to hear from you. You won't get any arguments from me about that. I've been singing in the Choir for a while. The question is, while Outpost let you down, are you finding that SMAC is? Are you just playing to a little past critical mass and starting a new game? An aside: Outpost's problem to me was that you had to race to Nanotech before your mines ran out of resources. Everything else was secondary micromanagement issues. You either achieved Nanotechnology, and built a Nano facility, or you died. Waste of all those other items. The last patch of Outpost I have at least had a few of the hundred or so items in it that were promised (in the MANUAL) but weren't delivered. But that still doesn't change the base goal and only strategy to survive... -Darkstar
chagarra	posted 05-30-99 05:34 AM ET Darkstar Thanx for the intro. As I said SMAC is great fun up to level six, from then on it's simpler to finish off the remnants, destruction or surrender, to end the game. If you've read the designer's notes, it is understandable, originally a bull session to relax while making Gettysburg, using basic CIVII engines, then suddenly "We've got a go-ahead" knowing it didn't have what it takes ( I wont use the french version ), let' throw what we've got together, add diplomacy ???, still not enough, fancy up the graphics for the masses who only see the pretties, Ok stretch the finish and bore them to death, it wont show on the demo's and by then the're hooked on the playability of the early game. This is only one scenario Maybe CIVIII will be a STRATEGY..hope hope hope.. game. RE OUTPOST Even nanotech wasn't any guarantee of survival since they self destructed "en masse" regularly.... Multiple nano farms, grid spaced, and examined very, very often were required. But even then why bother, terraforming went beserk before doing anything, monorails could be built at enormous cost, to do what, colonies couldn't be linked, trucks couldn't be tracked, blah blah....
eNo	posted 05-30-99 12:48 PM ET Well there's always Transcendant victory. (or Economic or Diplomatic). I've managed to play most of my games without having to fight any major wars.