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Author Topic:   We Hate Deidre AI campaigne 99'

whirlwind13 posted 05-25-99 09:21 PM ET
doesnt it make anyone mad that Lady Deidre and the Gaians expand at a rate comperable to the hive, have no reserch penalty, AND have the best military in SMAC (PSI +50% w\+5 planet)....its just out of control. As UoP she is always trying to take stuff from me (Cash, Cities, Research, etc.) One particular game I became so enraged I ruthlessly erased the faction from exsistance, setting my Trancendence back almost 70 turns....I do not have this option most of the time because by the time I leave my backyard she holds half the map...anyone else have this problem?
trippin daily posted 05-25-99 10:15 PM ET
Nope, I don't have that problem.
Trippin Daily
Valtyr posted 05-25-99 11:23 PM ET
It's Deirdre, not Deidre.
Valtyr
A nitpicker
MichaeltheGreat posted 05-26-99 12:40 AM ET
Nope, I don't have that problem from any play level - the Gaians have a research and ecomomic penalty, in the fact that they can't use the free market economic model and therefore can't really compete. The only times I don't crush the AI are in situations where I start on large landmasses and quickly find myself in contact with another faction - then you have to waste a lot of time and resources on military preparations and securing your borders. If I have a decent sized landmass to myself, I romp, because the AI for all factions is very ineffective for invading other continents with sufficient force, and they don't settle effectively either - most of the AI factions just build a lot of useless sea colony bases, rather than transporting land colony pods to new landmasses. The AI is pretty limited overall, and that's my only complaint.
K posted 05-26-99 02:36 AM ET
I was playing on a huge map as the UoP, and i forced her into submission with one probe and one laser rover in the very early game. Trust me, if you get her eary, she's nothing.
Basically, don't let ANY faction expand unhindered.
Aredhran posted 05-26-99 05:16 AM ET
How can anybody possibly hate the lovely Deirdre ? She's the hottest babe on Chiron (especially naked) !
Aredhran
-feeling horny -
Alkis posted 05-26-99 07:42 AM ET
Yes, I hate her more than anything!
Besides she is ugly.
HolyWarrior posted 05-26-99 11:52 PM ET
Hey, if any faction starts by the monsoon jungle, they will expand rapidly.
Koshko posted 05-27-99 12:55 AM ET
Dierdre isn't bad. I'm usually on good terms with her. I do get leery on the rare instances where she actually is strong. I just got to rush to get Asetic Virtues and the Xeno Dome.

Gord McLeod posted 05-27-99 04:08 AM ET
Deirdre is usually one of my best allies in any game I play. I almost never have problems getting along with her.
Evk posted 05-27-99 04:13 AM ET
I have problems with her about half the time. Sometimes she loves me and other games hates me and wages war despite my Green economy. Huh.
Aredhran posted 05-27-99 05:27 AM ET
This behavior is easily defined with three letters: P M S !
Aredhran
LoD posted 05-28-99 02:25 PM ET
LOL Aredhran!
Well, Deirdre is not *that* bad compared to (for example) Yang. Unfortunately, despite her "pacifist tendencies", she can sometimes be very aggressive. Fortunately, if you have more power than she does (yes, it's possible even on Transcend), and Green economics, you have a pact with Deirdre in the bag.
MichaeltheGreat: "[...]have a research and ecomomic penalty, in the fact that they can't use the free market economic model and therefore can't really compete". Factions that don't have FM can't compete? I don't think so! Other than that, you are right about the AI - it always sends only one naval unit carrier per attack. BTW, them see bases have one use - they make those factions harder to eradicate .
LoD
Wojo posted 05-28-99 08:18 PM ET
monsoon jungle - what in the hell is that? i have never come across that in my career in AC. Also, what is TRANSCENDENCE? I'm sure that sounds ignorant because you guys use it so much. But I posted before and the replys all mentioned TRANSCENDENCE. Please fill me in at [email protected] as I do not come to this board often.
Dim Cat posted 05-29-99 12:16 AM ET
I also play UoP a lot, and I actually found Deirdre to be quite a good ally. Yes, you have to sacrifice market economy for Green to keep a pact with her, but then she always has a lot of "Explore" technologies, which I usually develop last.
Also, she serves as a good counter-balance to Hive/Believers/Spartans (whoever is stronger in a particular game). If those guys destroy more or less peaceful factions (Morgan, Lal and Deirdre) early in the game, it's much harder to get rid of them later. In my last game I actually kept "feeding" Gaians to keep them at the same level with (or above) Hive and Believers (who were 3rd and 4th). They took all the attacks while I was building Space Elevator and Singularity Drop Squads...after which game was over
LoD posted 05-29-99 06:12 AM ET
Wojo:
The Monsoon Jungle is a Landmark that gives +1 nutrient too all the squares "belonging" to it (you can identify them by the texture and the tag "Jungle" in the square information box).
Transcendence is the best way (score-wise) to win SMAC. First of all, one of the factions has to complete a Secret Project called "The Voice of Planet". After that, the SP "Ascent to Transcendence" becomes available to all players. The faction, which completes it first, wins the game by "Transcendence Victory".
LoD
MichaeltheGreat posted 05-29-99 03:42 PM ET
LoD - by free market and "can't compete" I'm refering to the other factions ability to have techs, and field significant numbers of military units based on those techs. Many of my Transcent level games against the "AI", I build EVERY SP, and while Miriam with her hoards of AAA Silksteel Sentinels is an annoyance, and the Yang's millions of Missile artillery etc. is an annoyance, I'm fielding a large number of Veteran and Commando Shard/Neutronium/Cloaked/Deep Radar Hovertanks - and my research rate and the bucks for all this upgrading is provided by that free market economy - God bless Capitalism
When the dumb SOB's declare vendetta on me late in the game, they don't even realize that I have a dozen hidden cloaked units already in their territory, and cloaked carrier transports, full of fighters ready to rock and roll, right off their shores.
Since sea bases are often lightly defended, attackable by ships as well as air, I find the ones I don't wipe out to have one use - as forward logistics bases for my subsequent invasions. They would be harder to wipe out if they built land bases on different islands and landmasses, and got resources into production - I've never seen an AI owned sea base with access to land squares in its base radius actually terraform those land squares. So sea bases are always pretty resource poor, and near non-contributors to the overall industrial/economic/reasearch power of the owning factions. That's what I meant by useless.
LoD posted 05-29-99 04:06 PM ET
MichaeltheGreat, I get your point. I wasn't questioning your statement on sea bases - just the one about FM econ (BTW, I hope your relationship with Planet is progressing smoothly ).
LoD
MichaeltheGreat posted 05-29-99 07:24 PM ET
LoD - my relationship with planet?
PlanetShmlanet
Nothing 75 clean superformers can't handle.
I have a political button I got from a cool store in Washington D.C. that sums it all up:
Earth First! (We'll mine the other planets later)
Borehole on!
LoD posted 05-30-99 08:32 AM ET

MichaeltheGreat posted 05-30-99 11:49 AM ET
LoD, Actually, in all seriousness I'm pretty "green" industrially, so even with 40+ cities, I don't have the ecological damage problems even with the -3 planet rating in free market economy. I build tree farms, Centauri preserve, hybrid forest, etc. etc. - all the green improvements - I also don't build huge cities - I build a large net of cities closer together, and don't worry about cranking 100 resources per turn out of some megacity, if I can get five that are easier and cheaper to maintain that produce 20 resources each. Since the hybrid forest improvements give you 3-2-2 production with forest squares, I forest most everything, unless I can get better production. Boreholes have negative effects on surrounding squares (unless forested) by drying them out and reducing food output by one, so I really don't build that many.
I also manually manage all my cities, which is cumbersome, so it would be useful to have a game feature where you could automatically have an ecodamage flag, similar to the red face for drone riots.
As far as the production losses, I have cheap unit templates which I build and then pay to upgrade, and I always rush production on facilities, so I use the huge amounts of cash that the free market econmoy can generate to offset the lesser production from not boreholing every other square.
The net effect is all the output, with none of the pain, and I never need to take swimming lessons.
LoD posted 05-30-99 01:59 PM ET
Interesting strategy... I tend to cover all land I can control, but without exaggerating (like bases 2 squares from each other).
More dispersed cities are harder to develop - on the other hand they have a better output than cramped ones, so they make excellent SP builders and colony seeders. There is of course a downside - losing that kind of base is more painful. However, the superior mineral production will handle the burden of supporting more units.
In conclusion, I think it's better to use a hybrid colonization plan - super bases on 1-3 landmasses, and more concentrated cities in the outer colonies.
About the swimming lessons - a paraphrase of a well known film quote:
A typical Chiron landscape. In the far background - a burning PK base. In the foreground - Lal and Pria in pressure suits. Behind them, a boil o' worms emerging from a fungal "forest".
Pria - Run Lal, run!
LoD
Oleg Leschoff posted 06-02-99 03:57 PM ET
I am usually play Gaians, and have to say that it's pretty good even without FM. Actually, FM incredibly lowers police rating, so you need to build many improvements witch in case of Gaians I don't really need long time (especially with those Police units). Recently, I played Morgan and I liked it -- you don't really need to worry about mineral output, because you just buy everything. But first things you do is building rec.commons, and then try to find site near the nutrient bonus for city could even grow (no formers!). Thus, gaians at this time could complete WP project, and have all citizens working on fields, not recreating people (this, probably, is why they expands so fast). So I didn't notice that FM makes game any easier, this is just other style of game to handle.
Oleg Leschoff posted 06-02-99 04:07 PM ET
hehe.. BTW, it's Gaians with whom I usually build EVERY SP on Transcend (I don't play other levels). My experience with Morgan is not too big, so I can't say the same about him yet. But I believe that this is possible with any faction (well, maybe except Believers).
Also, Demo/FM/knowledge/[none/cyber/TC] combo may and must be avoided with Demo/Green/Knowledge/Eudaimonic in the late game (finally, get that police! If you still need it..), at least in case of Morgan.
HolyWarrior posted 06-07-99 02:47 AM ET
Oleg:
Why should the Believers build them, when they can take those projects away?
I do agree that FM is messed up. -5 police is a crippler, which is why Morgan is hopeless. Too bad, since I have nothing against him otherwise.
Igor posted 06-07-99 10:22 AM ET
Once I had a problem with Gaians. I played as PK with one city on huge map. When I completed Ascent to Transcendence and won, I PBed Lady with 2 busters. Why, why I didnt have 20 more PBs??????? Starvation..... No production...... S***** worms...... And 'friendly' empire on half of the world....
But usually she is very friendly and ready to share her techs: just have bases more than her, troops more than her, be at war with half of faction (and coming to victory) and dont give anything to Lady, ask to share. Her worms are a problem only for Morgan at FM.
Igor posted 06-07-99 10:44 AM ET
I tried to edit Morgan profile, with +1 effic, 'Wealth' as agenda etc. It helped once, on huge map with 30% landmass, when he was on other pole... But I saw only AIs Hive, Believers, Gaians and PK play avarege on highest levels. Never UoP, or Morgan, or Sparta. I think, Firaxis didnt worry enough about population and territorial growth for AI in this game.
I saw a guy playing TBS for FreeBSD, it calls 'Freeciv'.
CivilizationII, but strategy... AI grows as mad, settlers, settlers, more settlers. Everything is terraformed, new cities rise up as bacteria, 70 cities in 20 years. And waves of troops, every turn you have guests, and should fight them. Every civilization goes to Piramids (in this game they gives ability to grow 2 times faster for every city), and hurry prodaction very often. If you dont have large island only for yourself, you have a real life...or hell
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Author	Topic: We Hate Deidre AI campaigne 99'
whirlwind13	posted 05-25-99 09:21 PM ET doesnt it make anyone mad that Lady Deidre and the Gaians expand at a rate comperable to the hive, have no reserch penalty, AND have the best military in SMAC (PSI +50% w\+5 planet)....its just out of control. As UoP she is always trying to take stuff from me (Cash, Cities, Research, etc.) One particular game I became so enraged I ruthlessly erased the faction from exsistance, setting my Trancendence back almost 70 turns....I do not have this option most of the time because by the time I leave my backyard she holds half the map...anyone else have this problem?
trippin daily	posted 05-25-99 10:15 PM ET Nope, I don't have that problem. Trippin Daily
Valtyr	posted 05-25-99 11:23 PM ET It's Deirdre, not Deidre. Valtyr A nitpicker
MichaeltheGreat	posted 05-26-99 12:40 AM ET Nope, I don't have that problem from any play level - the Gaians have a research and ecomomic penalty, in the fact that they can't use the free market economic model and therefore can't really compete. The only times I don't crush the AI are in situations where I start on large landmasses and quickly find myself in contact with another faction - then you have to waste a lot of time and resources on military preparations and securing your borders. If I have a decent sized landmass to myself, I romp, because the AI for all factions is very ineffective for invading other continents with sufficient force, and they don't settle effectively either - most of the AI factions just build a lot of useless sea colony bases, rather than transporting land colony pods to new landmasses. The AI is pretty limited overall, and that's my only complaint.
K	posted 05-26-99 02:36 AM ET I was playing on a huge map as the UoP, and i forced her into submission with one probe and one laser rover in the very early game. Trust me, if you get her eary, she's nothing. Basically, don't let ANY faction expand unhindered.
Aredhran	posted 05-26-99 05:16 AM ET How can anybody possibly hate the lovely Deirdre ? She's the hottest babe on Chiron (especially naked) ! Aredhran -feeling horny -
Alkis	posted 05-26-99 07:42 AM ET Yes, I hate her more than anything! Besides she is ugly.
HolyWarrior	posted 05-26-99 11:52 PM ET Hey, if any faction starts by the monsoon jungle, they will expand rapidly.
Koshko	posted 05-27-99 12:55 AM ET Dierdre isn't bad. I'm usually on good terms with her. I do get leery on the rare instances where she actually is strong. I just got to rush to get Asetic Virtues and the Xeno Dome.
Gord McLeod	posted 05-27-99 04:08 AM ET Deirdre is usually one of my best allies in any game I play. I almost never have problems getting along with her.
Evk	posted 05-27-99 04:13 AM ET I have problems with her about half the time. Sometimes she loves me and other games hates me and wages war despite my Green economy. Huh.
Aredhran	posted 05-27-99 05:27 AM ET This behavior is easily defined with three letters: P M S ! Aredhran
LoD	posted 05-28-99 02:25 PM ET LOL Aredhran! Well, Deirdre is not that bad compared to (for example) Yang. Unfortunately, despite her "pacifist tendencies", she can sometimes be very aggressive. Fortunately, if you have more power than she does (yes, it's possible even on Transcend), and Green economics, you have a pact with Deirdre in the bag. MichaeltheGreat: "[...]have a research and ecomomic penalty, in the fact that they can't use the free market economic model and therefore can't really compete". Factions that don't have FM can't compete? I don't think so! Other than that, you are right about the AI - it always sends only one naval unit carrier per attack. BTW, them see bases have one use - they make those factions harder to eradicate . LoD
Wojo	posted 05-28-99 08:18 PM ET monsoon jungle - what in the hell is that? i have never come across that in my career in AC. Also, what is TRANSCENDENCE? I'm sure that sounds ignorant because you guys use it so much. But I posted before and the replys all mentioned TRANSCENDENCE. Please fill me in at [email protected] as I do not come to this board often.
Dim Cat	posted 05-29-99 12:16 AM ET I also play UoP a lot, and I actually found Deirdre to be quite a good ally. Yes, you have to sacrifice market economy for Green to keep a pact with her, but then she always has a lot of "Explore" technologies, which I usually develop last. Also, she serves as a good counter-balance to Hive/Believers/Spartans (whoever is stronger in a particular game). If those guys destroy more or less peaceful factions (Morgan, Lal and Deirdre) early in the game, it's much harder to get rid of them later. In my last game I actually kept "feeding" Gaians to keep them at the same level with (or above) Hive and Believers (who were 3rd and 4th). They took all the attacks while I was building Space Elevator and Singularity Drop Squads...after which game was over
LoD	posted 05-29-99 06:12 AM ET Wojo: The Monsoon Jungle is a Landmark that gives +1 nutrient too all the squares "belonging" to it (you can identify them by the texture and the tag "Jungle" in the square information box). Transcendence is the best way (score-wise) to win SMAC. First of all, one of the factions has to complete a Secret Project called "The Voice of Planet". After that, the SP "Ascent to Transcendence" becomes available to all players. The faction, which completes it first, wins the game by "Transcendence Victory". LoD
MichaeltheGreat	posted 05-29-99 03:42 PM ET LoD - by free market and "can't compete" I'm refering to the other factions ability to have techs, and field significant numbers of military units based on those techs. Many of my Transcent level games against the "AI", I build EVERY SP, and while Miriam with her hoards of AAA Silksteel Sentinels is an annoyance, and the Yang's millions of Missile artillery etc. is an annoyance, I'm fielding a large number of Veteran and Commando Shard/Neutronium/Cloaked/Deep Radar Hovertanks - and my research rate and the bucks for all this upgrading is provided by that free market economy - God bless Capitalism When the dumb SOB's declare vendetta on me late in the game, they don't even realize that I have a dozen hidden cloaked units already in their territory, and cloaked carrier transports, full of fighters ready to rock and roll, right off their shores. Since sea bases are often lightly defended, attackable by ships as well as air, I find the ones I don't wipe out to have one use - as forward logistics bases for my subsequent invasions. They would be harder to wipe out if they built land bases on different islands and landmasses, and got resources into production - I've never seen an AI owned sea base with access to land squares in its base radius actually terraform those land squares. So sea bases are always pretty resource poor, and near non-contributors to the overall industrial/economic/reasearch power of the owning factions. That's what I meant by useless.
LoD	posted 05-29-99 04:06 PM ET MichaeltheGreat, I get your point. I wasn't questioning your statement on sea bases - just the one about FM econ (BTW, I hope your relationship with Planet is progressing smoothly ). LoD
MichaeltheGreat	posted 05-29-99 07:24 PM ET LoD - my relationship with planet? PlanetShmlanet Nothing 75 clean superformers can't handle. I have a political button I got from a cool store in Washington D.C. that sums it all up: Earth First! (We'll mine the other planets later) Borehole on!
LoD	posted 05-30-99 08:32 AM ET
MichaeltheGreat	posted 05-30-99 11:49 AM ET LoD, Actually, in all seriousness I'm pretty "green" industrially, so even with 40+ cities, I don't have the ecological damage problems even with the -3 planet rating in free market economy. I build tree farms, Centauri preserve, hybrid forest, etc. etc. - all the green improvements - I also don't build huge cities - I build a large net of cities closer together, and don't worry about cranking 100 resources per turn out of some megacity, if I can get five that are easier and cheaper to maintain that produce 20 resources each. Since the hybrid forest improvements give you 3-2-2 production with forest squares, I forest most everything, unless I can get better production. Boreholes have negative effects on surrounding squares (unless forested) by drying them out and reducing food output by one, so I really don't build that many. I also manually manage all my cities, which is cumbersome, so it would be useful to have a game feature where you could automatically have an ecodamage flag, similar to the red face for drone riots. As far as the production losses, I have cheap unit templates which I build and then pay to upgrade, and I always rush production on facilities, so I use the huge amounts of cash that the free market econmoy can generate to offset the lesser production from not boreholing every other square. The net effect is all the output, with none of the pain, and I never need to take swimming lessons.
LoD	posted 05-30-99 01:59 PM ET Interesting strategy... I tend to cover all land I can control, but without exaggerating (like bases 2 squares from each other). More dispersed cities are harder to develop - on the other hand they have a better output than cramped ones, so they make excellent SP builders and colony seeders. There is of course a downside - losing that kind of base is more painful. However, the superior mineral production will handle the burden of supporting more units. In conclusion, I think it's better to use a hybrid colonization plan - super bases on 1-3 landmasses, and more concentrated cities in the outer colonies. About the swimming lessons - a paraphrase of a well known film quote: A typical Chiron landscape. In the far background - a burning PK base. In the foreground - Lal and Pria in pressure suits. Behind them, a boil o' worms emerging from a fungal "forest". Pria - Run Lal, run! LoD
Oleg Leschoff	posted 06-02-99 03:57 PM ET I am usually play Gaians, and have to say that it's pretty good even without FM. Actually, FM incredibly lowers police rating, so you need to build many improvements witch in case of Gaians I don't really need long time (especially with those Police units). Recently, I played Morgan and I liked it -- you don't really need to worry about mineral output, because you just buy everything. But first things you do is building rec.commons, and then try to find site near the nutrient bonus for city could even grow (no formers!). Thus, gaians at this time could complete WP project, and have all citizens working on fields, not recreating people (this, probably, is why they expands so fast). So I didn't notice that FM makes game any easier, this is just other style of game to handle.
Oleg Leschoff	posted 06-02-99 04:07 PM ET hehe.. BTW, it's Gaians with whom I usually build EVERY SP on Transcend (I don't play other levels). My experience with Morgan is not too big, so I can't say the same about him yet. But I believe that this is possible with any faction (well, maybe except Believers). Also, Demo/FM/knowledge/[none/cyber/TC] combo may and must be avoided with Demo/Green/Knowledge/Eudaimonic in the late game (finally, get that police! If you still need it..), at least in case of Morgan.
HolyWarrior	posted 06-07-99 02:47 AM ET Oleg: Why should the Believers build them, when they can take those projects away? I do agree that FM is messed up. -5 police is a crippler, which is why Morgan is hopeless. Too bad, since I have nothing against him otherwise.
Igor	posted 06-07-99 10:22 AM ET Once I had a problem with Gaians. I played as PK with one city on huge map. When I completed Ascent to Transcendence and won, I PBed Lady with 2 busters. Why, why I didnt have 20 more PBs??????? Starvation..... No production...... S***** worms...... And 'friendly' empire on half of the world.... But usually she is very friendly and ready to share her techs: just have bases more than her, troops more than her, be at war with half of faction (and coming to victory) and dont give anything to Lady, ask to share. Her worms are a problem only for Morgan at FM.
Igor	posted 06-07-99 10:44 AM ET I tried to edit Morgan profile, with +1 effic, 'Wealth' as agenda etc. It helped once, on huge map with 30% landmass, when he was on other pole... But I saw only AIs Hive, Believers, Gaians and PK play avarege on highest levels. Never UoP, or Morgan, or Sparta. I think, Firaxis didnt worry enough about population and territorial growth for AI in this game. I saw a guy playing TBS for FreeBSD, it calls 'Freeciv'. CivilizationII, but strategy... AI grows as mad, settlers, settlers, more settlers. Everything is terraformed, new cities rise up as bacteria, 70 cities in 20 years. And waves of troops, every turn you have guests, and should fight them. Every civilization goes to Piramids (in this game they gives ability to grow 2 times faster for every city), and hurry prodaction very often. If you dont have large island only for yourself, you have a real life...or hell