posted 05-10-99 03:03 AM ET        

HOW-FRICKEN-EVER!

Planet usually manages to whoop my ass just as I'm in the clean-up phases of a conquest victory. O.K. I'm on Transcend, so Planet is going to freak out about MY 2200-2300, right? So I don't have much time to stop it. In my current game, for example, by 2150 it was Believers v. The Hive--everybody else was dead or had 3 cities left and no will to fight. Because of this situation, though, I couldn't really steal technology from anybody. In fact, I'm almost always the technology leader by mid-game and I never lose grasp of it.

But in such a short game, I can't get Voice of Planet early enough or prepare my units early enough to stop Planet's carnage. As a result, I ALMOST deleted the game (again) after watching all my cities go to hell just as I was killing the Hive.

Any suggestions on this? I have blind tech on, so I can't shoot for ecological stuff. I've ripped every tech off on planet and cranked up my own research abilities, even if I had to adopt "non-Believer" SE settings.

Do I purposely need to keep the other factions alive just so I can keep stealing tech? What the hell do I have to do? This is simply silly. If there's a good way around it, great. If not, this has to be the lamest game ever made.

If I can't find a way to beat Planet on the highest level as Believers, I'm not sure I want to play anymore--

(except, of course, by e-mail!--wait, Planet is still there, too, right?).

Please help a sad, little

posted 05-10-99 03:09 AM ET            

You get the advance that lets you build Formers early right? And Rovers? And Synthetic Fossil Fuel?

Build a few less military units. Build about... oh twenty or so Fungicidal Rover Formers. Set them to auto-removie fungus. Hey presto!

posted 05-10-99 04:23 AM ET            

That doesn't really help me because the fungus just explodes out of the ground and kills me. But thanks.

MikeHII,

Good strategy. Of course, she has to stay alive lone enough for it to matter. It seems, then, that luck is playing too big a part of all this...I hate that.

Hey, is there any way to edit my txt files and just give myself Voice of Planet? Seriously, this whole Planet Attack thing is lame to begin with.

posted 05-10-99 04:28 AM ET            

That works well up to where I'm being attacked literally 100+ times per turn by Demon Boils. Even if they just barely hurt me, their numbers just beat the hell out of my cities. I'm talking mass worms here. In this last game, I didn't get the right tech to remove fungus, so they ran right up to my doorstep and just ruined me.

What the hell? Why don't more people scream about this? I get the feeling I must be missing something, because this is a true game killer.

I'm writing down all ideas, so please keep them coming. Thanks.

posted 05-10-99 05:06 AM ET            

I just turn that option off! I hate winning that way anyway. I have conquest and diplomatic as the only ways to win.

So all I have to do is track down the prerequisites and edit the txt file? That's a lot of prerequisites, though. I'd probably have to give ALL factions the prerequisites as well (minus one, maybe, so I can build VoP unhindered)--but now that seems quirky in a whole other way.

posted 05-10-99 07:16 AM ET            

Oh and I _think_ you can also decrease the number of mindworms somewhere in a txt file, just like choosing rare lifeforms, but I'm not sure if this is possible. Also, rare lifeforms does not seem to affect the endgame worm waves (tm).

posted 05-10-99 12:37 PM ET            

cousLee's advice is sound, but let me elaborate. In psionic combat the base ratio is 3:2, attacker:defender. Therefore it is crucial to always attack a boil that you're next to instead of letting it attack you. This is even more true when you have a stack of 20 boils sitting next your base. This is because the stack of boils will wear down even 5 or 6 of your best defenders and still have some leftover to get into the compound. However, if you attack the boils first with a ground unit, the collateral damage will kill all of the boils netting you a nice energy credit windfall.

posted 05-10-99 01:07 PM ET            

The whole strategy is to slow down the units so they have to end the turn next to your base. Forest rules for this - it's great for resources (especially when it is hybrid) and requires like 3 move points to get through, or something.... Native life does not seem to use roads very often (in my experience)so the one road in to(and maybe one out of) your base won't be too bad. All the squares right next to your base will have been covered with forest ASAP early in the game, and the forest will have grown over the fungus nearby. This will allow you to install 3 sensor arrays around your base (on the 2nd square from the base) in the forest, and use your formers to build roads and mines on all the rocky areas (fungus or not) and solar/farm/road/nutritbonus on any rolling rainy square.

The sensors will detect things that are moving towards the base, and help defend if it comes to that. 3 is the most efficent way to get the most visibility at the least effort. the forest 1-2-1 stacks up quite well to a lot of the basic terraform options, especially since it's kinda like having free terraform/fungus removal buddies, but mine/road/rocky is a mineral bonus not to miss, just like solar/farm/rolling/rainy with any nutrient increasing option is great for nutrients. Of course, if the rolling/rainy is high altitude, you've got an energy bonus. Later on, forest at 2-2-1 and then 3-2-2 stacks up very well against all comers except fungus, which you can plant 2+ squares away from your base *if* you're feeling brave.

There should be no fungus within 4 squares of a base 50 turns after it is established. Fungus needs to grow from fungus (I have never seen fungus boil out of the ground - it comes from some other fungus). This means only the locusts pose a problem, but they only really appear 2-5 at a time, which isn't too bad with trance defenders.

The believers have a bonus when attacking. This makes them very successful in the attack to defend arena.

posted 05-10-99 03:21 PM ET         

Try arming each base with 3 empath high morale hovertanks. Don't bother with trance, you will just be overwhelmed. During the final mindworm attack stage, switch to green and cybernetic. Make sure you have mag tubes connecting your bases.

The Alpha.txt way:

Look under #CHASSIS Look at where it says 'copter. Right of 'Copter you should see the 4 chassis types of it: 'Copter, Chopper, Rotor, Lifter. Next to that you will see the numbers 9, 2. Change this to 0, 0. Look Further Right and replace the word "MindMac" with "Disable"
Now go under #UNITS and find where it lists Mind Worm, Isle of the deep and Locusts of Chiron. You will see their chassises listed next to them, change them all to 'Copter.
Than next to them Change "Psi, Psi" to "Gun, Scout".

You wont be able to build Copters any more(They are imbalanced anyway and I already have them Diasabled) and all Native Lifeforms will now be land units, have no movements points and have 1 attack and 1 defense.

The alpha.txt way is kind of cheating though.

posted 05-10-99 03:26 PM ET            

What do you mean that you did not get teh right tech to remove fungus? You don't have formers?

Seriously, how bad is your EcoDamage? Would lowering that somewhat help reduce the worms.

Empath Choppers, trance scouts, defense in depth. Great tactics.

If there are cities bearing the brunt of the attacks sell off the expensive stuff and the really cool stuff and then give the city to the Hive or other remaining factions and see if the attacks continue on those cities.

Use your new money to build up defenses in your other cities.

Make Forests

Send out your save file to your email friends so we can try and crack the problem first hand.

Surrender to the Morganic forces in your email games and they will help you in this one

Goob

(quiet aside to all the other thread readers, if Yin could play decently at all then he never would have gotten himself into this mess... He must suck worse than all of us thought. Singlarity warned us but we wouldn't listen. All of you who said that he yells and complains alot, he must be compensating for lack of ability... I apologize for saying that you were all Psych 101 rejects.)

Sure Yin just send us a save file, I'm sure that we'll get you set straight in no time.

posted 05-10-99 03:38 PM ET            

Use the forest trick for pre-emptive defensive stopping of the boils. Try posting Empath Scout Rovers (clean if possible) inside your bigger targets to pop the Boils when they are beside it. [The chopper trick would require 1 chopper per 4 boils in the stack as Air Units only eliminate ONE unit in a boil stack. Ground eliminate ALL.] I would even think about [clean] arty units to help soften up the boil stack. If you have Tanks, then use Empath Scout Tanks to gain a second attack.

Use ACEdit to build a Yin's Believer faction by editing the Believer's to have VoP technology as a starting tech. Then load that faction for NEW games as Beleivers. You only need the Tech that grants you VoP, and not everything beneath it. You might want to think about filling those other Tech slots with Hybrid Forest Tech or Centauri Preserve tech (and making them Auto facilities) if you are TRULY having that nasty a time with planet. Also, think about either RAISING their Planet rating, or perhaps giving them the Psi Defense SP tech to be able to build it. And build less boreholes and condensers! If you build them, make sure that they are WITHIN A CITIES PRODUCTION RADIUS. I know what the Big Brains say, but having them outside seems to make planet a LOT more jumpier than she should be. If they are INSIDE a city's radius, then you can try building those Hybrid Forests and other Ecological wonders that buy down Terraforming damage.

Eliminating fungus is nice, but while MOST fungus will grow from other fungus, if the Ecodamage is HIGH enough, I have seen Planet MAKE an new fungus patch right beside the offensive city. (Can you say 125 Eco-Damage? That was what the city was at...) But in general, if there is a fungus patch within 10 tiles, that is where Planet blooms the fungus in my games.

Turn 100 sounds early for planet to be throwing a fit... how many formers do you have rearranging Planet?

posted 05-10-99 11:24 PM ET            

City production is the key to this. Once you reach a certain point, environmental destruction skyrockets, as I'm sure you know. This is a deadset 100% intended effect to mess up factions who become too powerful in the minerals department, and you can't get around it.

What you have to do is go through each of your cities and cut mineral production until you get to a reasonably low level, enough so that the environmental destruction is 0. The Believers get no slack whatsoever in this. Building tree farms (already essential) and more importantly hybrid forests will allow you boost your mineral output by a long way, IF you have the technology available. If not, you'll just have to concentrate on labs and psych generation, something that will help the believers a little less than you would like.

Finally, fungus removal doesn't seem to do a great deal for stopping planet. If your ED is high, xenofungus will appear aggressively regardless of what you do. Keeping it away from your cities is important (a radius of 1 square clearance should be a priority), but don't expect fungus removal to work if you're producing 20+ ED in that city.

Finally, obvious stuff. Having trance units and empath units, particularly high morale choppers (think +1 from fundy, too), will help, and every base should have a designated defender trance empath scout (reactor level 1), to soften up any attack, whether psi attack or not. The two psi projects will work wonders for these guys.

posted 05-10-99 11:51 PM ET            

See, you and I understand each other. Who are these people who've never even seen this happen? Are they playing on the lowest level or something? I actually do think it's kind of cool that Planet is designed to give you a challenge when the enemy AI has stopped being a challenge long ago. BUT, and this was/is my problem, I never incorporated Planet into my Believers strategy, which is a fatal mistake. I suppose if you are the Gaians, it happens naturally that you prepare for Planet's anger, but the Believers are a different story. So it's back to the drawing board. Actually, the more I play the game, the more I appreciate the ways they tried to make it challenging for each faction.

posted 05-10-99 11:55 PM ET            

I say this because you should be rushing up the right hand side of the tech tree to get these anyway (MMI and copters), instead of the left hand side (monopole magnets and mag tubes).

Granted, if you're determined to take high ecological damage, wormburners are the only way to go. Being able to kill an entire stack of worms in one go can't be underestimated. On the other hand, for the 'soft' tactic I suggested above, having one in each city ties up too many resources - having a few copters with a wider attack radius solves this problem, and you only get the occasional worm or locust swarm to make them necessary.

posted 05-11-99 01:10 AM ET            

Remember, this tactic is for use only if you're expecting relatively low numbers of worms - say two to five every couple of turns. Naturally, if you're facing big numbers, it may pay to spend up large and get two to three wormburners in a single, high damage city. That way, you can manage planet's attacks, while being covered in other areas by the copters.

An addendum to my main post, but so basic it slipped my mind initally - build sensors. You should be doing this anyway, in the first couple of forest squares you lay down. But you need the warning arrays to make use of empath units.

posted 05-11-99 01:22 AM ET            

STOP USING GAS ON EVERYTHING.

Yep. Stop it. I hadn't advanced techs in quite a while, nor gained any bases, but all of a sudden, my nice 2 to 5 eco-damage cities shot to 30 to 55. What was the trigger? Gassing the heck out of my opponents. I'm involved in a serious "Total Conquest Burn the Ground and Salt it, and then Dump the Glowing Toxic Reactor Waste On It So You Know Where To Spit and Pee In The Dark.". I am was using classic Hitler tactics, "Oh, I am just reclaiming the home land of my people that the Believers have falsely layed claim to, Brother Lal. I would be HAPPY to be nice to you and commence trading..." yada yada yada... long story short, I hit 6000 turns of sanctions, and suddenly my NO MINERALS (at ALL) bases IN THE WILD (no terraforming anywhere in city radius) shot from 0 to 25 Eco damage. Real bases were higher... Planet starts going crazy and just popping demon stacks, sometimes in just one and two places, and sometimgs up in all squares surrounding my cities (Locusts over water). Only difference that I can find? Nerve Gassing like crazy...

By the way, what is the deal with Nerve Gas? How can that stuff even AFFECT anything? Don't they have to be in sealed suits and sealed vehicles and sealed cities? I don't get it. Worse "Reality Check" in the game.

Final Aside... Like Master of Magic, and Master Of Orion, my machine has picked a faction it hates for me to play in SMAC... Morgan. Example: Started a new game yesterday of SMAC as Morgan, Standard map, 30% Water- Morgan started surrounded by ALL 6 opposing factions on one small island. 4 of the factions (Believers, Hive, PKs, and UoP) were exactly 4 tiles away (it was perfect! No overlap!), abutting Morgan's base. Gaians and Spartans weren't much further out. All but PKs could expand to the border without problems. Well, and the Golden Boy in the center. THAT was a pretty typical start. Note that all (surviving) factions also signed a pact against me at turn 40 or so. Talk about hot and nasty games. Of course, I stopped playing when the computer came knocking with Chaos weapons at turn 65 (game setup - no pods) and yet to discover a level 3 or 4 tech (UoP, Lal, and Believers dead by turn 25).

posted 05-11-99 03:42 AM ET            

THAT'S IT! I was handing out nerve gas like Pez at a pre-school rally. That makes a lot of sense now that you mention it. That would also explain why Planet freaked out so much earlier. Kind of a good safety measure against Hitler tactics, actually (realism aside).

posted 05-11-99 08:37 AM ET            

About the "reality check": IIRC, our beloved drones only have to wear some kind of respiration device (gas mask ?) to survive on Chiron. Chemical weapons do not need to be breathed in to be effective, simple skin contact is enough to kill you (ask the US soldiers who had to wear that heavy gear back in Kuwait, just in case Saddam went crazy ivan with his chemical SCUDs ).

posted 05-11-99 10:33 AM ET            

About the copters... I used to be a great fan of them (because of the multiple attacks per turn thingy), but then I realized that a stoopid Hardened Unity Rover did a much better job: It wiped out an entire stack of Demon Boils with just one attack (it was not even Empath).

So I devised a new "WormWiper Mk2" (Mk1 being the choppers): [tada] Drop Empath Hovertank (1e-1-3^*x). Instant Cash guaranteed... You might want to do the upgrade trick from a Trained Hovertank chassis for the morale upgrade. These babies are especially efficient when you have the Space Elevator... Wipe out worm stacks anywhere on Planet ! And you don't even need to have mag tubes all over to move your troops around. If you airdrop into a city, you don't take 20% damage, and can attack immediately.

posted 05-11-99 11:00 AM ET            

Yin, last night I had to play my Morgan sp game where Morgan is battling the believers, I will be honest to say that if I had been battling your Believers last night instead of the AI's I most likely would have gotten my butt kicked, I mad a couple of mmovement mistakes leaving forces exposed. Hopefully I have learned from my mistakes and can now cleanse Planet of the Believers dogmatic drivel.

posted 05-11-99 12:46 PM ET            

NOTHING stops Hitler tactics in Single Player mode. The game is DESIGNED to be played that way. Only wage war on one to two opponents at a time, sign truces and treaties at a drop of a hat, and continue to break said items as tacticly and strategicly important. Don't bother with Reputation worries as your opponents won't live long enough to get angry enough to band together and smash you. Besides, they are going to TEAM UP and smash you anyways due to that Crush #1 and Crush #2 and Kill the Human! Programming. The only way to beat that is to use that Master Of Orion tactic of constantly setting them at each others throats by framing other factions for your probe crimes and outright bribing them to war on the others.

I only roll out the Nerve Gas on enemies I never want to surrender to me, or because I need that 50% strength bonus DESPERATELY. And guess what? After Gassing the HECK out of the Ugly Orange Orangatang last night (TBs), she still tried to surrender. I thought that they weren't EVER suppose to surrender if you had used gas against their cities (and wiped out a couple). My SE was only Wealth at the time, but... Is it only if you OBLITERATE a base of theirs that they won't surrender?

Aredhran - Glad to see you have recovered from the Hang Over from Heck. If all they need is a respirator, MAYBE. I understand about contact gases and what not. But I can't believe that the vehicles aren't sealed. At least the Aircraft, Tanks, Ships, Armored Rovers, and Transports. Infantry HATE anything extra to carry, since they have to hump it everywhere, but still... Nerve Gas effective against the Cities though? Those things ARE sealed systems. You'd have to locate the Ventilation systems and pump it in, and how are you going to do that from a plane or chopper? No, Nerve Gas is an absolute FAILURE on the Game Designers part. An Total Brain Failure. Now, I'll go check the "supposed" stats they give for Chiron, but I still think that they had to wear sealed environ suits for prolonged exposure to the wild atmosphere and whatnot. And since those troops are going to be on maneuvers for a 150 or so years, they must be sealed systems. If so, then nerve gas hasn't even an excuse to pester infantry. :O

posted 05-11-99 02:38 PM ET            

That's not quite true that Planet only attacks the human player. I've seen the AI leaders get severely munched by Planet. We're talking 25% drops in the power graph here. In one turn, no less! I know that it was Planet because several times, I've been watching the map area of a leader AI during the AI's turn(s) when fungus has sprouted up in a dozen spots at once, when several improvements suddenly "disappear" or when several of their cities suddenly become severely depopulated. The possibility exists that another AI faction was using Nerve Gas against the leader but I doubt it since there was no notification that it occurred. And, since v3.0, any use of nerve gas (unless during sunspot activity) by AI players is broadcast to the human player along with the imposed atrocity sanctions.

posted 05-11-99 03:10 PM ET            

While you may not check back in this thread, I do feel the NEED to question why you are even playing the game if you are turning Planet off regularly. (I can see doing it as a lark a couple of times to see what happens, but to me (and this is only my not so humble yet incredulous opinion) Planet and fighting with/against it is half the enjoyment in the game.

When I play SP I always play with Planet set to max life, having that 8th faction that just gets Pissed when you break its rules is cool.

I do realize that many do not share my opinion, but the only way I can understand that is to think that those of you who feel this way are more f'ed in the head than I am.

posted 05-11-99 03:23 PM ET            

I find Planet to be too much of the Artificial Difficulty matter. AI Gaians are dropping Condensers and Boreholes as commonly as ROADS, and Planet comes after ME for being her neighbor? Very poor aim. While I have actually seen Planet attack the AI, its an extremely RARE circumstance from my experience. And I can only recall a few times Planet fungus bloomed someone OTHER than me in Single play. So I can understand wanting to turn it off from time to time. Planet is nothing but a NON-FUN Obstacle to me, and nothing more. Anything that does not add to my enjoyment may as well not be in the game. While the game ATMOSPHERE might suffer a little for the lack of Planet, my actual enjoyment of the game wouldn't.

posted 05-11-99 10:04 PM ET            

But I'm not sure all my hard work will pay off--the worms are due soon, so I'll see. But, as Darkstar mentioned, Planet does seem to pick on you for no reason at times, which really takes away from the 'logic factor' of these attacks and makes the whole seem thing artificially difficult.

posted 05-12-99 02:44 AM ET            

If I do have Neural Grafting, then I may build TrainedTrance units for the extra morale boost.

And of course I try to build all of the possible defensive enhancements that are available (Perimeter Def., Tachyon Field, Certain SP's...) all bolster the Strength rating.

posted 05-12-99 04:19 AM ET            

In that particular game, the Hive and I were located next to the other factions before they could develop a defense against us. Santiago and the University were left with 3 cities each in very short order. I would call it luck, but now I think this kind of setup is quite unlucky for the Believers because without enough people to steal tech from, it becomes quite hard to deal with Planet--the factions are easy by comparison.

posted 05-12-99 05:44 AM ET            

I know you are an agressive player, all for the Blitzkrieg and usually play on smaller maps. Personally, I prefer larger maps, and do at least *some* basic development before I start wars (not Star Wars ), so usually have Drop prototypes ready by the time Planet *really* gets pissed off. You don't need the Space Elevator, it's just a plus.

Before that, I usually have high morale, empath rovers at key locations (plus a couple trawlers... for the $$$)

About the nerve gas: you're probably right. I remember reading about the cities being "sealed" (and the pictures tend to confirm this), and it makes sense that vehicles would be air-tight. But I don't care that much about realism... I just gas the enemies of the state !

posted 05-12-99 06:52 AM ET            

She *does* look like a monkey

posted 05-12-99 12:47 PM ET            

That is the sensible explanation, and hence has no place in "The Game" forum.

posted 05-12-99 02:54 PM ET            

Bene - Thanks for the idea. I had thought about it. But if you can't breath the atmosphere, shredders are all you would need versus protective suits. And I doubt they would be effective against the big vehicles. Still, its a thought. Maybe its not really nerve gas, but maybe Napalm, or Radioactive Hydrochloric Acid... or Nanite Dissemblers... Still, I wish the development team had thought that out better in relation to their world set-up rather than just label it Nerve Gas. And I want my Native Life Nerve Gas! Yeah, worm killer! That is certainly a missing ingrediant... ought to be able to spray those pesky mind worms from range and therefore fight them in PHYSICAL, not Psi, combat. yeah. I like that concept... That would give Free Market and True Believers a way to make up for their nasty lack of PSI defenses. Really. Just because I am a greedy capitalistic PIG, I am a psychically challenged individual. And just cause I am a tree hugger, I am a gifted psychic. Right. Tell me another one. So Brian and Sid's primary sexual characteristics put a Clydesdale horse's to shame, do they? and run faster too you say?

Overall, the more I play and discuss about SMAC issues, the more I think the development just slapped a sci-fi setting over the top of old Civ code. Too many glaring holes in it for a game that is suppose to be an interactive STORY with city building and unit building/warring thrown in.

Well, I hope Test of Time doesn't bite...

posted 05-12-99 03:11 PM ET            

AVOID Synthetic Fossil Fuels for as long as possible. It really jumps the eco damage that pop naturally causes.

Don't play abundant life if it ticks you off that much.

DON'T BOOST YOUR POP. Your Population size, per city and overall, seem to contribute to eco-damage ESPECIALLY as you advance through the tech tree.

Don't build boreholes or other major terraforming outside a city radius. Put it inside a city radius to gain those Hybrid Forest (and other Eco reducer) advances.

Don't road every square. Remove unneeded roads (via pillage).

Don't plant sensors on every forest.

Don't raise and lower land.

Don't remove fungus except as necessary.

Plant fungus and forest out in the wilds. (beyond useful city territory). This seems to raise planet's tolerance for terraforming.

Plant lots of Kelp.

Don't even DESIGN Nerve Pod enabled units. You might be tempted to use them...

Don't Planet Bust. Who would imagine?

Planet doesn't seem to mind rivers, so that is alright.

Unhappy people SEEM to contribute to planet getting cranky, but that just might be coincidental.

Kill all opposing factions as early as possible. Planet's aim is horrible.

If I remember/think of anything else, I'll post it...

posted 05-13-99 10:28 AM ET            

Darkstar you said more than I would have, about ecohealth on Planet, thanks.

I said > "The trouble is that it still isn't good enough because all you have to do is not trip its mechanisms and it lays somewhat dormant. " (quite the arrogant statement...) I do not pretend that I can waltz into any old transcend situation and hallback and kick butt, Avoiding tripping Planet's defenses may leave you open to assaults by stronger AI factions, (another reason I like SMAC). I play strategy and War games for the challenge (as most of us do). I don't always enjoy the "challenge" when the AI and I have to play by the same parameters but the AI is given a ton of cheats, though even there the "challenge" is usually to avoid death in the initial rush and hang on until your natural efficiency advantage helps you over take the AI. Anyway I need to stop talking like I know what I am doing until I beat somebody in MP.

Darkstar, for your own sake stop analyzing the realism (or lack there of) of the game. You will end up hating it. I don't understand many choices made by the developers, other than placing the CIV mold into a SF story, and I still don't understand the CIV choices. I can't start listing them or I will go into frenzy mode and start frothing at the mouth and a frothing Gooby is not a pleasant sight. Trust me, accept the realism at face value and when you are completely done playing the game write a long diatribe that I'll sign with you and we'll send it S.M. and B.R. and maybe something will be differant in the next game.

posted 05-13-99 03:06 PM ET            

Seriously though, its all the pondering and supposition on how to make the game less favor the Sword that has put me into shining a spotlight of Reason on SMAC. And you are right, it sure doesn't hold up for a second. But that's because the developers did not maintain consistency within their own setting. That is what ruins any story... inconsistency.