posted 04-30-99 07:24 AM ET        

I don't mean the "I like UoP because..." and "Morgan sucks...." etc. I mean, quantitatively who prefers to play who. That would tell you your approximate chance of getting your first choice in multiplayer.

Well, you might have guessed, I play Morgan.

posted 04-30-99 10:42 AM ET            

Morgan 1
UoP 1
Spartans 1

(I think cousLee counts as a spoiled ballot on this one)

This is soooooooo exciting. Now, we will get the vote of the Luxemboug jury.

posted 04-30-99 10:56 AM ET            

UoP... 70%
PKs... 20%
Gaians... 10%
Others... 0% (have played them, don't like them)

posted 04-30-99 12:43 PM ET            

Favourite faction: Lord's Believers. Seriously. Why? The greatest challenge of 'em all - is it at all possible not to win with the UoP? Strange.. although a supposedly Christian faction, the Believers are the only ones whith whom I've actually used PBs...

'*beep* New Jerusalem calling University. Do you copy?*beep*' - '*ba-boop*University here, I read you *twoob*' - '*beeP*My good man, would you please kindly ask the Provost he has a copy of an ancient movie in his datalinks - a flick called 'Waterworld. And lest I forget, that he has only 5 minutes left to see it. ARCHBISHOP-IN-COMMAND, PRESS THE S M I T E BUTTON, AND MAY OUR SINGUALRITY PLANET BUSTERS ERASE THE LAST SPECK OF ZAKHAROV'S EVIL ATHEIST EMPIRE FROM THE FACE OF PLANET. *beep*'.

posted 04-30-99 01:37 PM ET            

My favorites:

1) PKs
2) Hive
3) Spartans
4) Gaians
5) Believers
6) Morgan
7) University

Note that I am biased for the Hive because they are the faction I play when I want to go all out ruthless war with nerve gas and gene warfare. The PKs first because no other faction can duplicate their abilities, and they fit my Demo/FM/Knowledge or Wealth scheme best. The Spartans, as Atombomb has pointed out in past posts over in the factions forum, have by far the best police ability early on and this can be critical on difficult levels of play. The effiency of the gaians along with their amazing planet rating make them next, though I'm not the biggest fan of these tree-huggers. After that the believers are an excellent faction but I think they need too much micromanagement to be played really well (many SE changes in the game).

Morgan is worthless because +3 or +4 economy isn't all that special when I can get +2 with the PKs, and that hab limit is just ridiculous. Also, he can't use planned economics, so forget about easy population booms with demo/planned/creches.

The university's drones are a killer on harder levels, so you can forget about golden ages or even any simple form of population control. I'll admit that early in the game they can be a strong faction with fast research, but they are easy to catch soon after.

posted 04-30-99 05:00 PM ET            

I know this goes contrary to what most people think, so I'll explain:

I would much rather be able to use all the tech I have than have tech I can't use. The University will always have at least 5-6 techs the Believers don't, for example, but what are these techs worth if they can't be implemented? The Believers, in large part thanks to their +2 support, can implement all technology they get, which admittedly isn't much. UoP, on the other hand, will have tech, but will be unable to use it due to their poor peaceful growth capabilities. Although UoP can go Free Market, they usually don't want to. Why? Way too many drones. UoP usually sticks to a Democracy /Green/Knowledge or Wealth combo, meaning if they want tech, they won't get much money and won't be able to produce much.

So for a peaceful power, UoP has a very poor economy and poor growth abilities. This is the reason why I prefer Morgan or Lal.

I guess you could play UoP as a warlike power, but then you're competing with the Spartans, the Hive, and the Believers, so obviously they're not on the level.

posted 04-30-99 05:51 PM ET            

You think you have better commerce? Not by much, if you do, because I'll be planetary governor as soon as I make that empath guild.
Also, my extra talents mean I can have a golden age whenever I want.

posted 04-30-99 06:21 PM ET            

1) Love Love Love - UoP and Hive
These two are tied as my all-time favorites to play. But then, I am just a stark raving mad war monger...

2) Greatly Like - Gaians
3) Like Lots - Morgan - I think these guys are cool. But they are so difficult for me to get a good start and early game due to their pacifism and short hab limitation. But it doesn't stop me from trying.
4) Just Like - Peace Keepers - These guys I'm just about neutral on, but since they are so adaptable too my favorite play styles, I find I like them.

5) Spartans and Believers - Despite being a War Monger at heart, these guys generally seem to blow chunks for my play style and just aren't as fun for me as the others.

posted 05-02-99 12:59 AM ET            

Morgan's two big problems are the -1 support (which sucks until Clean Reactor), and the inability to go Planned, as you mentioned. Pop. boom is a great strategy (almost vital to a peaceful power) and this is the reason why I give the Lal the nod. But, the 4 pop. limit isn't really a big deal (just build hab complexes), and he doesn't have -1 efficiency like Lal (=more energy).

On the other side of things, Morgan has a +1 economy, starts with 100 extra credits, and can go police state (which is a big boost in the beginning for him). The 100 extra credits helps, but isn't all that. It's the +1 economy, man. Economy is THE most important social stat (especially for a peaceful power). This is the reason why the Hive isn't unbeatable. This is the reason why Morgan doesn't suck. Economy.

You seem to think that +2 econ is all you need, so you shouldn't bother getting a +3 or +4. This is wrong. The more econ you have, the better. +4 econ gives you +2 energy/base and +2 commerce over what +2 econ gives you. That's huge. Pass a global trade pact and you're making so much money it's stupid.

posted 05-02-99 01:13 AM ET            

So Morgan can have +4 economy while the PKs can only have +3. Big deal. The PKs are guaranteed planetary governor, so the commerce rates are very close. +2 energy/base is a pretty insignificant bonus when you're pulling in so much energy already, so wealth is just a worthless choice that cripples your army (-2 morale is a huge penalty).

If you think for a second that your size 11 bases are going to compare at all to my size 16 then you are kidding yourself. With my extra talents drones won't ever be a concern.
I've done some tinkering with those economy settings with SE choices, and I've found that wealth just isn't worth it-- take knowledge instead for the bonus research and efficiency (unless you're a probing maniac, which is actually a good strategy for Morgan).

posted 05-02-99 01:23 AM ET            

If you're into a warllike-from-the-start game, then the Hive, Spartans or Believers would probably be a lot easier.

All a matter of choice. Although, having said that, I can never get on with Morgan... I've tried, but failed!!

Nell

posted 05-02-99 03:02 AM ET            

That's a large amount of extra energy.

But I agree with Nell--it's really a matter of choice.

posted 05-02-99 12:46 PM ET            

Your size 11 base takes in (as a base) 4 for the city square and 3 for every other square. That's 4 + 3*11 = 37. Add the +2 energy/base now, and you have 39. So this means you are taking in 19 energy/turn as base, then with the 3 facilities this comes to 19 +9 +9 +9 = 46.

Let's say I only had a size 11 base too-- I'd be making 18 +9 +9 +9 = 45. Point already made, but remember my bases will be size 16, so I get as a base 4 + 3*16 = 52. So my energy comes to 26 +13 +13 +13 = 65!

posted 05-03-99 02:15 PM ET            

But he's still not bad! Your calculations are a little flawed, mostly because you forgot to include the other factors involved here: commerce and efficency. Morgan has a natural +1 commerce, and if he has a 4 econ, that's another +2. Lal will probably be governor, so that's a +1 for him. Also, Lal has a natural -1 to efficiency, which he will probably cancel by being knowledge. I think that +20% research and +10% industry probably are equal (well, not really, but I've already given you the governorship, so grant me this). Let's say we both have two pacts.
Also, assume we both have 3 facilities for research and energy.

Ok. For a size 11 base:

Morgan: (4+3*11)= 37
+2/base = +2= 39
+2/pact = +4= 43
3 facilities = +21.5*3= 107.5

Lal: (4+3*11)= 37
3 facilities = +18.5*3= 92.5

That's an extra 15 energy/base. If I have 10 bases, there's an extra 150 energy/turn Morgan is getting. And if Morgan has more treaties/pacts, or if he can get the global trade pact passed, it's even more.

posted 05-03-99 04:36 PM ET            

I'll give you what you've said so far-- that when we both have size 11 bases you will have a +2 commerce over me and will make more. But my calculations are:

Morgan: (4 + 3*11) = 37
+2/base = 39
+2/pact = 43
So total energy = 21 +10 +10 +10 = 51

Lal: (4 + 3*11) = 37
So total energy = 18 +9 +9 +9 = 45.

Note the game rounds down, and you only end up making 6 more energy per base, but not at all because of that. And remember this was just to make a point-- I'll have size 16 bases while yours are size 11.

Lal: (4 + 3*16) = 52
I won't even add in the commerce bonus I get from having more bases, because it isn't certain.
This gives me: 26 +13 +13 +13 = 65,

so I'm making at least 14 more energy per base than you to give me 140 more energy than you for 10 bases.

posted 05-03-99 05:30 PM ET            

Are you sure that if the energy bonus is 50%, its not CUMLATIVE? I haven't taken the time to confirm that, but that has been the buzz on the board.

posted 05-03-99 07:19 PM ET            

Darkstar-- Yes, I am positive, but I have yet to confirm this for fusion and quantum labs-- they may be cumulative. I can assure you though that the way I used is how the game works for energy banks, tree farms, and hybrid forests.

posted 05-03-99 07:26 PM ET            

About speed of pop. growth, there's one thing I want to mention. I didn't know that Morgan had a limit of 11 because I don't think I've ever even gotten a city of his up that high... He grows slowly, much more so than the PK's.

posted 05-03-99 07:44 PM ET            

New and Improved Morgan:
Advantages: +1 econ, +1 commerce, +100 energy, +1 industry
Disadvantages: -1 support, -1 growth, -1 planet.

posted 05-03-99 10:42 PM ET            

Morgan: 1 1/2
UoP: 5 1/2
Sparta: 1
Gaians: 2
Believers: 2 1/2
PK's: 4 (and a -1)
Hive: 1/2

So, the race is pretty close, with the UoP and PK's taking an early lead.

posted 05-04-99 05:19 AM ET            

No penalities for Police/Planned.
Industry bonus=more Police units=fewer drones.
Industry bonus=quicker facilities=on par with tech when everyone is on Doctrine: Air Power.

posted 05-04-99 01:58 PM ET            

Smeagol, is there any docs on the 11 pop limit for Morgan, or is it just in the .txt file, or is it only discoverable by play. I am at work so I don't have all the info here, but what I do have says nothing about a 11 pop limit.
In my most recent Morgan game I tended to have smaller more closely packed cities so getting up to that limit wasn't a big deal. I think my biggest Morgan city is 10, and it pours out the energy. I am not saying they are better than PK, but I like playing with their limitations just as much, or close to as much as playing Lal. (or playing with Lal...oh gross...gag...retch)

posted 05-05-99 03:39 PM ET            

On transcend for a normal faction, the second citizen is a drone. So is the 3rd and 4th. Well, b/c of UoP's extra drones they get another one at size 4. This makes all 4 citizens raving drones at that point. How do you work around that? Colonize everything in sight, sure. But sooner or later you're going to run out of space and you'll have to start growing.

So what do you do? Make a rec commons? Sure, everyone but maybe Lal or Yang will be doing that by this stage of the game. That's 2 pissed-off guys pacified. There's 2 more. Police units? Wrong! Try again... If you want to really kick in the tech you'll be free market already (and if you don't, what is the point of being UoP anyway?). Virtual World? If you can beat everyone else to it, this would be a good solution...until you reach size 5. And anyway, you're now building a wonder just to stay even with everybody else...whereas everyone else will be building wonders to get ahead. Lal will build Human Genome and all his cities will be Golden Age by now. Morgan will have the Weather Paradigm and will be building boreholes way before you will...etc...

posted 05-05-99 04:03 PM ET            

It's the only faction where the Combination of Police State and Planned Economy really makes sense.

Industrial benefits combined with no drone problems in small bases leads into a brilliant start into the game.

posted 05-08-99 02:06 AM ET            

The Believers--still my favorite faction.
Peacekeepers--still second.
Morganites--If it weren't for that -5 police in Free Market, these guys would be up there.
Gaians--too environmentally extreme for my tastes, but no one fights a 'Spaghetti Western' (mindworm war) like the Gaians.
University--Haven't played at highest levels, so have yet to see the drone penalty really kick in. The AI doesn't build enough military for them.
Spartans--They're supposed to be the tough guys, right? HA! The Believers will eat them up every time.

posted 05-09-99 04:11 AM ET            

1) Morganites: Despite their shortcomings, still my favorite. I avoid the problem of smaller cities by playing them outrageously expansionistic, where the benefits of the economy do the most (+2 energy/base is the same, whether the base is size 1 or size 28). I admit an ideological bias towards the Morganites, but they simply suit my style of play very well. I expand ruthlessly, and avoid fighting a war until I can gear up my cities so that 20 or more cities are building military units to crush anyone who actually attacks me. I ignore factions that declare vendetta upon me but do nothing else.

2) The Gaians. Although they are ideologically the flip side of the Morganites, they share a pacifistic bent with them, which is fine with me. Although it sounds strange, I run both of these factions with the same SE (demo/Green/Wealth); while there are differences which affect specific tactics, they can be run in a similar fashion.

3) The UoP. A big step down from the front-runners (in my book) because of the drone problems (With the first two, drone riots are an extremely rare event). Yes, the VR thingie helps, but sometimes another faction completes it before it can be finished, even if it is purchased. Without that, and the hunter-seeker algorithm, the UoP is not situated to grow quickly and strenghten. I still prefer them to the remaining factions.

4) Peacekeepers. Not sure why I dislike them as much as I do, but I have always done poorly with them. I invariably meet with several people who seem hell-bent on destroying me, so I never really take off with them as I do with other factions.

5) Spartans. They are good if one is looking to play a militaristic faction; I don't, so they are not on my list of "must-play" factions. The only game I completed with them was one in which Deidre won, after nearly exterminating me in a war (I had crushed 4 other factions, while Morgan had wiped out the UoP before I killed him). My friend has been much more successful with them, as he enjoys their militaristic bent.