A call to gamers on the subject of video game violence

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Author Topic:   A call to gamers on the subject of video game violence

Dark Nexus posted 08-26-99 11:19 PM ET
Yesterday there was an article in the Ottawa Sun on this bull about violence in video games driving kids to violence in real life.
I say it's time to make some noise about this. The anti-video game camp has been heard from enough already, with hardly enough people that disagree being heard. This must change.
Letters to newspapers, webpages, every medium that accepts opinion pieces from the general public. I'm willing to do a bit of research on the subject. Digging up addresses to send things to (such as [email protected] for the Ottawa Sun), finding articles and news pieces discussing the subject, sources to quote, etc.
I'm just wondering how many people around here would actually be willing to send these newspapers and such emails on the subject? I don't mean short little emails disagreeing with what was said on the subject, but well thought out replies to the various articles. One person doing this on their own isn't enough, but if 50 or 60 of us bombard a paper with well thought out replies on the subject, we stand a good chance on getting our opinions printed.
If you're interested, email me at [email protected], and please feel free to spread the word on this. The more people who get involved, the better chance of being heard.
*Dark Nexus steps down off the soap box*
Dark Nexus
cwal.tech-base.com
CWAL News Guy and Head Scriptkeeper
"Sanity is calming, but madness is more interesting."
Koshko posted 08-26-99 11:45 PM ET
I actually do believe that Video Games can be too violent, but they aren't the only areas of violence by a long shot. Look at the movies we make, the stuff on TV, the lyrics in songs, etc. I really don't think it's fair to single out just one section. You got to approach all areas equally. You also can't use the violence in our society as a scapegoat to Shody Parenting and the simple fact that some people are just screwed in the head. Just sharing my personal opinion.

Dreadnought posted 08-27-99 06:00 AM ET
For your reading and flaming pleasure, here is the article-
Kid killer Michael Carneal, 14, fired eight shots
into a prayer circle and hit eight students in Paducah, Ky.
Never in the history of law enforcement has anyone shot with such
accuracy. Even the FBI's average hit ratio is only 20%.
"He was playing a video game," retired Lt. Col. David
Grossman of the US Army told Canadian police chiefs here
yesterday. "Only this game was for real."
He told Canada's top cops that society is facing a new breed of
killers nurtured on violent arcade games.
"These video games are murder simulators -- we're training
them to kill," he said. "These kids go on autopilot --
they're drilled to kill every living target until they run out of
bullets or targets."
Grossman said a game called Quake 3 was pulled from the market
recently because it allowed players to scan in pictures of real
people and then kill them.
Grossman is a West Point psychology professor who has founded a
new scientific field called "killology".
He said the worst video gamesare the ones that actually put
replica guns in the hands of children.
He's working with authorities to have age restrictions put on
violent video games.
Jefferson County Sheriff John Stone said there was a definite
link between video games and the shooting at Columbine High
School in Littleton, Colo. that claimed the lives of 12 students,
a teacher and the two student shooters.
"These guys played a game called Doom, which is a game where
you kill and hunt people down," said Stone. "The
difference is the video games don't shoot back. We did."
Parents of the three kids killed by Carneal in December, 1997,
have launched a $130-million US lawsuit against several video
game manufacturers.
__________________________________________
Maybe later when I'm not half asleep I'll take a step onto the soapbox
JohnIII posted 08-27-99 03:12 PM ET
I saw that too!
Quake 3 hasn't been finished, so how could they pull it from the market?
John III
Dreadnought posted 08-27-99 03:38 PM ET
Basically, the article was an opinionated piece and was discussing how recently, a 14-year-old boy named Michael Carneal had managed to shoot eight people with him only using eight shots, when he fired rounds off into a prayer circle. Basically, the kind of aim he had could have only be uptained by... video games. Yeah, I am not making this up. See, even if video games did in some way effect his aim, the whole article wasn't about just his aim. The writer, in an unprofessional manner, decided to use the article and the trajedy which occured as a medium to fire some rounds of his own into the world of video games. His aim was the last thing on his mind. The article blamed video games, basically, for the trajedy itself ever occuring. It was nice to see the posters of this forum pull apart the article and expose it for what it is. The stats he provided were analyzed, his opinions were shot down, and those of us who actually PLAY video games (and I am sure that the writer of this article does not) were able to point out the other inconsistensies in the column. And there was the almost comical (if it weren't so sad) mention of that "videology" course or study or whatever, to (over)analyze why kids murder when they play video games. This whole stupid thing reminded me of the Colorado incident. I was very disturbed by the footage shown on TV; I saw some students, begging for their lives, trying to escape the hell-hole their school had become for these deranged students. No one could ever imagine how horrible it would be to be living through those moments, which for many students, were their last moments on Earth. I remember seeing the footage of some guy, who had no foot, and was holind a sign in the window of the second floor, asking, begging for them to help him escape. And I remember him smashing the window with his dislocated arm, and climbing out the window. His will to survive was amazing, and the sadness of the whole situation was overwhelming. I immediatly knew who was responsible for driving this group to do what they have done, and unfortunatly, the media had some opinions of their own. The media blamed a new movie that was released, The Matrix. They said that this movie encourages kids to murder because, well, I am not quite sure why. They just noticed that the kids were wearing trenchcoats, and since the characters in this movie were wearing trenchcoats, the movie, by association, but be totally responsible. Well, not totally repsonible, because these kids also played games like DOOM, where your whole mission is to blow monsters up with these psychotic weapons. Well, that is a fine example of backwards thinking. The media wanted the people to believe that those kids were fine, respoectable people with great grades, a lot of friends and they loved romping through the flowers... and then they saw these movies, played these games, and went around shooting people. Sadly, a number of people agreed with them, because too many people see what the media portrays as the gospel truth. I posted a message about this when it originally came up. Aside from philospohical posters such as undertow (and this was before SideWinder), not too many people agreed with me. Know who I held responsible for what happened?
THE CHILDREN THEMSELVES To a certain degree. I mean, these kids were victims, and just like you or me, they were pushed over the edge. It's very possible for this to happen. Being outcasts, these kids were tormented day in and day out until they began to dress differently, act differently, and basically, scare the hebbie-jibbies out of classmates and other students. And they liked the results. They were outcasts, but now they were getting a reaction; people were afraid of them. Now, I will get into that in a bit, but I just wanted to say that while the individual is responsible for his or her own actions, these kids murdered because they were driven to it, and no one wanted to accept responsiblity, unfortunatly. Maybe they were born with a mental problem, but I find it hard to believe that it would be that convenient. So, more blame needs to be placed on...
THE PARENTS Seriously, these kids had piles of guns and explosives in their basements (God bless America), and no one even became a little concerned? You know how I picture their parents? One of them is a father, planted in front of a TV with a beer, not listening to anything the child says. And maybe the mother was just "too busy." And then one day, the news says there was a trajedy, and the parents are all shocked and everything. Well, wake up, people. It was found that these kids were storing weapons in at least ONE of their basements, making it a pre-meditated attack, obviously. And the people responsible for their child and this household did NOTHING. Couple this with the messed up morals that the kids were growing up with, making them anti-social, and you have some pretty bad parenting going on.
THE TEACHERS Who did nothing when they saw these kids, growing up, at any school, being picked on, teased, beaten up, you name it. The typical loser we all love to annoy. It happens with everyone, so you might as well admit it, folks. At your school, there is probably someone that is always teased and made fun of, all the time. You might hate this person. Or, this person might even be you, who knows. But as humans, we don't give each other much respect when there is the possibility that we could become more popular and known ourselves. Personal gratification. Think about it - people make fun of people to make themselves feel better. And what did the teachers do during all of this? What do they always do? They largely stay out of it. And in this case, the teachers were also against these "freaky" kids. They just sat around and let the situation get worse and worse.
THE OTHER STUDENTS They deserve most of the blame. As I mentioned above, there are a couple of reasons why people would make fun of other people without a second thought. And the reason they do it is because they enjoy it, and they feel satisfied for doing it. It makes them feel better about themselves, at least, it does at the moment. These people, by insulting and making fun of these kids, actually molded them into what they became. Like I mentioned above, these kids became more and more introverted and weird as time passed, and it was because they were being driven insane. Literally. You can try to put yourselves in their shoes, but you can't. You can't understand. It's a sorry state when this sort of thing happens, and if these kids are going to be blamed (they definatly deserve to be punished and recieve psychiatric treatment, that is for sure), the blame at least needs to be partially placed upon these other factors that led them to let loose with the violent nature inside them. And yes, I believe that human nature is also responsible. It's clear that we still have survival insticts within us, and a desire to destroy and maim and whatnot. Although I think that part of ourselves has been taimed within the last severl million or so years, it will take an equal amount of time in the future for us to evolve past that. If we ever do. Besides, it's kinda hard to blame humanity's violent nature for all of this, because there is no one to sue, and that is the most important part, according to those, that ironically, deserve most of the blame for what happened AFTER the rampage of death and destruction. THE MEDIA I am starting to hate the modern media, and they are becoming such a joke that no one from our generation will take them seriously when we come into power. Think about it, though... Remember when Hard Copy was the biggest joke of a program a few years ago? Well, now, almost every news program is the same way: It gets the ratings. A few years from now, the only news shows should be Fox Files quality television. After all, that is the direction we are facing. Yes, the media will decide that we DO need more programs that discuss strippers. Seriously, though... after the events which unfolded, the media knew that the truth was too much. You can't get away with blaming everyone, and it's a lot easier to start controversy by pointing the figer at movies like The Matrix and video games like DOOM. The truth is, these people have glorified these sorts of trajedies and they have lied through their teeth for one reason and one reason only: Ratings. Well, they need the blame, because they are monsters themselves. But what made them go over the edge? What made them lash out? They weren't always a ticking time bomb ready to blow. Instead of blaming video games for all of life's problems, let's look at ourselves for a moment, and realize that we have all been picked on, or have picked on someone. Let's all realize that we don't help out the "misfits" in our society, and let them explore who they are without being teased. (And by this, I mean, let them be anti-social, but value what they have to say, and not let them become intraverted and weird.) I think that the media is the biggest monster here, because they value their ratings and viewing audience above good will and people's lives. Well, I finally got that off of my chest. These incidents have been occuring for a very long time (before DOOM, believe it or not), and they will always continue to occur, but the next time any news show starts to get extreme in their thinking, we should all be the judge ourselves, and make out own decisions. We might never be able to pinpoint who exactly was responsible, mostly because no one person is responsible. But, I wrote WAY too much already, and if you read all this, let alone agree with me, thanks a bunch.
Natguy posted 08-27-99 04:47 PM ET
Wow. I agree. I remember sitting in ALERT (the gifted class) the day after and seeing the news broadcast, and interviewing a victim's brother and another victim's father. Oh, wow. Did we havew a looong discussion over that one. We also placed the responsibilty mostly on the students. I had a long post written about school society and some other stuff, but I realized it didn't really have a point so I condensed it down.
Natguy the Young
Who was neatly hit in the face with a speeding bag of ice when his friend was in a fight (which he lost) on the bus because he couldn't deal with immature jocks. I dislike school societies, so I am gradually withdrawing into my own little school circle and avoiding the top folks in school society.
MajiK6pt5 posted 08-27-99 10:17 PM ET
my sister came home one day and said something to support their (anti-game viewpoint)...that's rather sad that they can brainwash the Youth of America that way.
I think that that guy who shot the 8 shots into the prayer circle must have had some prior experience with real guns, not video games. I don't play quake or doom that much (i downloaded the demos a while back), but even if I did, it would be a very different situation if I actually went out to shoot people (not that I would, just theoretically).
And anyways, people in a prayer circle stand very close together. Anyone who has ever used a gun before, and has a heart of steel can hit 8 people with 8 bullets (well, at least some people can).
threeover posted 08-27-99 10:26 PM ET
Here's a solution: eliminate guns, so the idiots can stop blaming video games for the source of violence in our society. Oh yeah, for some reason, I think that movies are linked to violence in society not games.
But that's just my opinion.
Dark Nexus posted 08-28-99 01:45 AM ET
MajiK6pt5, that's exactly why I'm trying to do this. Sure, vidoe games may lead to some violent behavior to a limited extent, but the cause of this stuff? No way. They might have contributed, but these people already had serious problems to deal with.
This kind of talk is running rampant in the media, all but undisputed. It's time for that to end, but I can't do it alone. Drop me an email. Myself and a few others are putting together an organization of some sort to help those who want to speak out on this subject, but only if we can find enough support and enough of a need for one.
Dark Nexus posted 08-28-99 01:48 AM ET
Oh yeah, Dreadnought, think you could put that into an editorial format and fire it off to the Ottawa Sun's editorial email address ([email protected])?

MajiK6pt5 posted 08-28-99 02:40 AM ET
heh! like what the hell would we say?!?
i mean, i'm kind of pissed off about it, but I don't really care THAT much, after all, they can't make us stop playing games (I hope not!).
you just wanna write a letter of complaint??? those media guys don't take restrictions from anyone, and the guys who actually believe in this are so screwed up that nothing can help them.
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Author	Topic: A call to gamers on the subject of video game violence
Dark Nexus	posted 08-26-99 11:19 PM ET Yesterday there was an article in the Ottawa Sun on this bull about violence in video games driving kids to violence in real life. I say it's time to make some noise about this. The anti-video game camp has been heard from enough already, with hardly enough people that disagree being heard. This must change. Letters to newspapers, webpages, every medium that accepts opinion pieces from the general public. I'm willing to do a bit of research on the subject. Digging up addresses to send things to (such as [email protected] for the Ottawa Sun), finding articles and news pieces discussing the subject, sources to quote, etc. I'm just wondering how many people around here would actually be willing to send these newspapers and such emails on the subject? I don't mean short little emails disagreeing with what was said on the subject, but well thought out replies to the various articles. One person doing this on their own isn't enough, but if 50 or 60 of us bombard a paper with well thought out replies on the subject, we stand a good chance on getting our opinions printed. If you're interested, email me at [email protected], and please feel free to spread the word on this. The more people who get involved, the better chance of being heard. Dark Nexus steps down off the soap box Dark Nexus cwal.tech-base.com CWAL News Guy and Head Scriptkeeper "Sanity is calming, but madness is more interesting."
Koshko	posted 08-26-99 11:45 PM ET I actually do believe that Video Games can be too violent, but they aren't the only areas of violence by a long shot. Look at the movies we make, the stuff on TV, the lyrics in songs, etc. I really don't think it's fair to single out just one section. You got to approach all areas equally. You also can't use the violence in our society as a scapegoat to Shody Parenting and the simple fact that some people are just screwed in the head. Just sharing my personal opinion.
Dreadnought	posted 08-27-99 06:00 AM ET For your reading and flaming pleasure, here is the article- Kid killer Michael Carneal, 14, fired eight shots into a prayer circle and hit eight students in Paducah, Ky. Never in the history of law enforcement has anyone shot with such accuracy. Even the FBI's average hit ratio is only 20%. "He was playing a video game," retired Lt. Col. David Grossman of the US Army told Canadian police chiefs here yesterday. "Only this game was for real." He told Canada's top cops that society is facing a new breed of killers nurtured on violent arcade games. "These video games are murder simulators -- we're training them to kill," he said. "These kids go on autopilot -- they're drilled to kill every living target until they run out of bullets or targets." Grossman said a game called Quake 3 was pulled from the market recently because it allowed players to scan in pictures of real people and then kill them. Grossman is a West Point psychology professor who has founded a new scientific field called "killology". He said the worst video gamesare the ones that actually put replica guns in the hands of children. He's working with authorities to have age restrictions put on violent video games. Jefferson County Sheriff John Stone said there was a definite link between video games and the shooting at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo. that claimed the lives of 12 students, a teacher and the two student shooters. "These guys played a game called Doom, which is a game where you kill and hunt people down," said Stone. "The difference is the video games don't shoot back. We did." Parents of the three kids killed by Carneal in December, 1997, have launched a $130-million US lawsuit against several video game manufacturers. __________________________________________ Maybe later when I'm not half asleep I'll take a step onto the soapbox
JohnIII	posted 08-27-99 03:12 PM ET I saw that too! Quake 3 hasn't been finished, so how could they pull it from the market? John III
Dreadnought	posted 08-27-99 03:38 PM ET Basically, the article was an opinionated piece and was discussing how recently, a 14-year-old boy named Michael Carneal had managed to shoot eight people with him only using eight shots, when he fired rounds off into a prayer circle. Basically, the kind of aim he had could have only be uptained by... video games. Yeah, I am not making this up. See, even if video games did in some way effect his aim, the whole article wasn't about just his aim. The writer, in an unprofessional manner, decided to use the article and the trajedy which occured as a medium to fire some rounds of his own into the world of video games. His aim was the last thing on his mind. The article blamed video games, basically, for the trajedy itself ever occuring. It was nice to see the posters of this forum pull apart the article and expose it for what it is. The stats he provided were analyzed, his opinions were shot down, and those of us who actually PLAY video games (and I am sure that the writer of this article does not) were able to point out the other inconsistensies in the column. And there was the almost comical (if it weren't so sad) mention of that "videology" course or study or whatever, to (over)analyze why kids murder when they play video games. This whole stupid thing reminded me of the Colorado incident. I was very disturbed by the footage shown on TV; I saw some students, begging for their lives, trying to escape the hell-hole their school had become for these deranged students. No one could ever imagine how horrible it would be to be living through those moments, which for many students, were their last moments on Earth. I remember seeing the footage of some guy, who had no foot, and was holind a sign in the window of the second floor, asking, begging for them to help him escape. And I remember him smashing the window with his dislocated arm, and climbing out the window. His will to survive was amazing, and the sadness of the whole situation was overwhelming. I immediatly knew who was responsible for driving this group to do what they have done, and unfortunatly, the media had some opinions of their own. The media blamed a new movie that was released, The Matrix. They said that this movie encourages kids to murder because, well, I am not quite sure why. They just noticed that the kids were wearing trenchcoats, and since the characters in this movie were wearing trenchcoats, the movie, by association, but be totally responsible. Well, not totally repsonible, because these kids also played games like DOOM, where your whole mission is to blow monsters up with these psychotic weapons. Well, that is a fine example of backwards thinking. The media wanted the people to believe that those kids were fine, respoectable people with great grades, a lot of friends and they loved romping through the flowers... and then they saw these movies, played these games, and went around shooting people. Sadly, a number of people agreed with them, because too many people see what the media portrays as the gospel truth. I posted a message about this when it originally came up. Aside from philospohical posters such as undertow (and this was before SideWinder), not too many people agreed with me. Know who I held responsible for what happened? THE CHILDREN THEMSELVES To a certain degree. I mean, these kids were victims, and just like you or me, they were pushed over the edge. It's very possible for this to happen. Being outcasts, these kids were tormented day in and day out until they began to dress differently, act differently, and basically, scare the hebbie-jibbies out of classmates and other students. And they liked the results. They were outcasts, but now they were getting a reaction; people were afraid of them. Now, I will get into that in a bit, but I just wanted to say that while the individual is responsible for his or her own actions, these kids murdered because they were driven to it, and no one wanted to accept responsiblity, unfortunatly. Maybe they were born with a mental problem, but I find it hard to believe that it would be that convenient. So, more blame needs to be placed on... THE PARENTS Seriously, these kids had piles of guns and explosives in their basements (God bless America), and no one even became a little concerned? You know how I picture their parents? One of them is a father, planted in front of a TV with a beer, not listening to anything the child says. And maybe the mother was just "too busy." And then one day, the news says there was a trajedy, and the parents are all shocked and everything. Well, wake up, people. It was found that these kids were storing weapons in at least ONE of their basements, making it a pre-meditated attack, obviously. And the people responsible for their child and this household did NOTHING. Couple this with the messed up morals that the kids were growing up with, making them anti-social, and you have some pretty bad parenting going on. THE TEACHERS Who did nothing when they saw these kids, growing up, at any school, being picked on, teased, beaten up, you name it. The typical loser we all love to annoy. It happens with everyone, so you might as well admit it, folks. At your school, there is probably someone that is always teased and made fun of, all the time. You might hate this person. Or, this person might even be you, who knows. But as humans, we don't give each other much respect when there is the possibility that we could become more popular and known ourselves. Personal gratification. Think about it - people make fun of people to make themselves feel better. And what did the teachers do during all of this? What do they always do? They largely stay out of it. And in this case, the teachers were also against these "freaky" kids. They just sat around and let the situation get worse and worse. THE OTHER STUDENTS They deserve most of the blame. As I mentioned above, there are a couple of reasons why people would make fun of other people without a second thought. And the reason they do it is because they enjoy it, and they feel satisfied for doing it. It makes them feel better about themselves, at least, it does at the moment. These people, by insulting and making fun of these kids, actually molded them into what they became. Like I mentioned above, these kids became more and more introverted and weird as time passed, and it was because they were being driven insane. Literally. You can try to put yourselves in their shoes, but you can't. You can't understand. It's a sorry state when this sort of thing happens, and if these kids are going to be blamed (they definatly deserve to be punished and recieve psychiatric treatment, that is for sure), the blame at least needs to be partially placed upon these other factors that led them to let loose with the violent nature inside them. And yes, I believe that human nature is also responsible. It's clear that we still have survival insticts within us, and a desire to destroy and maim and whatnot. Although I think that part of ourselves has been taimed within the last severl million or so years, it will take an equal amount of time in the future for us to evolve past that. If we ever do. Besides, it's kinda hard to blame humanity's violent nature for all of this, because there is no one to sue, and that is the most important part, according to those, that ironically, deserve most of the blame for what happened AFTER the rampage of death and destruction. THE MEDIA I am starting to hate the modern media, and they are becoming such a joke that no one from our generation will take them seriously when we come into power. Think about it, though... Remember when Hard Copy was the biggest joke of a program a few years ago? Well, now, almost every news program is the same way: It gets the ratings. A few years from now, the only news shows should be Fox Files quality television. After all, that is the direction we are facing. Yes, the media will decide that we DO need more programs that discuss strippers. Seriously, though... after the events which unfolded, the media knew that the truth was too much. You can't get away with blaming everyone, and it's a lot easier to start controversy by pointing the figer at movies like The Matrix and video games like DOOM. The truth is, these people have glorified these sorts of trajedies and they have lied through their teeth for one reason and one reason only: Ratings. Well, they need the blame, because they are monsters themselves. But what made them go over the edge? What made them lash out? They weren't always a ticking time bomb ready to blow. Instead of blaming video games for all of life's problems, let's look at ourselves for a moment, and realize that we have all been picked on, or have picked on someone. Let's all realize that we don't help out the "misfits" in our society, and let them explore who they are without being teased. (And by this, I mean, let them be anti-social, but value what they have to say, and not let them become intraverted and weird.) I think that the media is the biggest monster here, because they value their ratings and viewing audience above good will and people's lives. Well, I finally got that off of my chest. These incidents have been occuring for a very long time (before DOOM, believe it or not), and they will always continue to occur, but the next time any news show starts to get extreme in their thinking, we should all be the judge ourselves, and make out own decisions. We might never be able to pinpoint who exactly was responsible, mostly because no one person is responsible. But, I wrote WAY too much already, and if you read all this, let alone agree with me, thanks a bunch.
Natguy	posted 08-27-99 04:47 PM ET Wow. I agree. I remember sitting in ALERT (the gifted class) the day after and seeing the news broadcast, and interviewing a victim's brother and another victim's father. Oh, wow. Did we havew a looong discussion over that one. We also placed the responsibilty mostly on the students. I had a long post written about school society and some other stuff, but I realized it didn't really have a point so I condensed it down. Natguy the Young Who was neatly hit in the face with a speeding bag of ice when his friend was in a fight (which he lost) on the bus because he couldn't deal with immature jocks. I dislike school societies, so I am gradually withdrawing into my own little school circle and avoiding the top folks in school society.
MajiK6pt5	posted 08-27-99 10:17 PM ET my sister came home one day and said something to support their (anti-game viewpoint)...that's rather sad that they can brainwash the Youth of America that way. I think that that guy who shot the 8 shots into the prayer circle must have had some prior experience with real guns, not video games. I don't play quake or doom that much (i downloaded the demos a while back), but even if I did, it would be a very different situation if I actually went out to shoot people (not that I would, just theoretically). And anyways, people in a prayer circle stand very close together. Anyone who has ever used a gun before, and has a heart of steel can hit 8 people with 8 bullets (well, at least some people can).
threeover	posted 08-27-99 10:26 PM ET Here's a solution: eliminate guns, so the idiots can stop blaming video games for the source of violence in our society. Oh yeah, for some reason, I think that movies are linked to violence in society not games. But that's just my opinion.
Dark Nexus	posted 08-28-99 01:45 AM ET MajiK6pt5, that's exactly why I'm trying to do this. Sure, vidoe games may lead to some violent behavior to a limited extent, but the cause of this stuff? No way. They might have contributed, but these people already had serious problems to deal with. This kind of talk is running rampant in the media, all but undisputed. It's time for that to end, but I can't do it alone. Drop me an email. Myself and a few others are putting together an organization of some sort to help those who want to speak out on this subject, but only if we can find enough support and enough of a need for one.
Dark Nexus	posted 08-28-99 01:48 AM ET Oh yeah, Dreadnought, think you could put that into an editorial format and fire it off to the Ottawa Sun's editorial email address ([email protected])?
MajiK6pt5	posted 08-28-99 02:40 AM ET heh! like what the hell would we say?!? i mean, i'm kind of pissed off about it, but I don't really care THAT much, after all, they can't make us stop playing games (I hope not!). you just wanna write a letter of complaint??? those media guys don't take restrictions from anyone, and the guys who actually believe in this are so screwed up that nothing can help them.