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Author Topic:   Should fascists have civil rights ?

Bishop posted 08-24-99 06:05 PM ET
The reason for me asking is that I recently read the program for one of the minor trotskyist fractions in Sweden, where they said that fascists shouldn�t have civil rights. I ask you can you build a democratic society when you divide people into desirables (sp?) and non-desirables ? I think not !
Bishop
Lurker posted 08-24-99 06:20 PM ET
The only acceptable social division is between those who blah and those who don't.
Bishop posted 08-24-99 06:42 PM ET
Try to be serious, will you ?
Krushala posted 08-24-99 07:27 PM ET
Obviously that should be yes. I know fascism is a dirty word in america right now. Anyone who proclaims they are fascist will stereotyped as a skin head neo-nazi. Whom many people will assume are criminals. But even criminals have rights in america. So everyone in this country has rights.
Koshko posted 08-24-99 11:51 PM ET
If you mean the right to act out their Fascism on people, No. If you mean having the same general rights as everyone else, Yes.
OhWell posted 08-25-99 07:46 AM ET
I agree with Koshko...
GaryD posted 08-25-99 09:55 AM ET
So we're all agreed. That's settled then.
OhWell posted 08-25-99 10:53 AM ET
Yea, but what about lefts? Should fascists have civil lefts? I, for one think not!
Bishop posted 08-25-99 04:11 PM ET
Nice to see that everyone agrees.
OhWell
I agree with you, after all we have to draw the line somewhere...
Bishop
Krushala posted 08-25-99 06:53 PM ET
we can't have an argument if everyone agrees. Oh well. And Koshko what do you mean act out fascism on other people. Fascism isn't really a verb.
Koshko posted 08-25-99 11:20 PM ET
Even if you don't agree with what they say, they should be allowed to speak of thier ways. They are allowed their opinions. You can't have selective rights. What they should not be allowed to do is use their Rights as an excuse to force their ways on others. In other words, no violence and bully tactics should be allowed.
ViVicdi posted 08-26-99 02:19 AM ET
People should be judged by their actions, and this judgement should be absolute and without prejudice.
Facists who steal, whether or not in the name of facism, deserve to go to jail, for no longer or shorter a period of time than any other thief.
On the subject of whether or not censorship should be part of the law, it is a sign of weakness rather than strength when a country must outlaw expression. If we live in a country where people can burn the flag, and yet we still have the best economy, the best military, and the right to keep and bear arms, it is a testament to our strength and stability -- obviously the flag burners are the nutballs, not the rest of the country.
It's sort of like the President playing golf while we're pounding Iraq. I call it the "Bermuda Shorts Theory" -- if you really want to show contempt for someone you are dealing with, wear Bermuda Shorts and put your feet on the desk -- preferably with no shoes on! The BS Theory is most useful in either provoking your adversary into overextending himself or concealing the extent of your own need for your adversary's cooperation so as to haggle more effectively. While he's grunting and sweating and hustling you're just kicking back enjoying the show.
According to the BS Theory the best way to handle a flag burning is to nonchalantly ridicule the people doing it. If the protesters, in their rage at not being taken seriously, make the mistake of escalating, most people will place the need to restore order above the desire of the protesters to be acknowledged.
Machiavellian theories aside, it's the right thing to do in a country with a First Amendment such as ours.
Bishop posted 08-26-99 05:29 AM ET
ViVicdi
Do fascists burn the american flag ? I thought it was only people on the left wing who did that.
Bishop
GaryD posted 08-26-99 05:53 AM ET
Not just them. People who have had their pasties maligned burn the flag also
White_Cat posted 08-26-99 07:42 AM ET
"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
(Anyone know who it was that said this?)
Spoe posted 08-26-99 11:32 AM ET
Patrick Henry or one of that crowd.
sandworm posted 08-26-99 03:20 PM ET
sarcasm...
We should start a government agency that is responsible for deciding what a fascist is, then expand it into a police force that goes out, picks them up, and takes them to concentration camps where they can be used in not-well-thought-out medical research.
Seriously, in the US people have a constitutional right to be ignorant assholes, just so long as they're not hurting anyone else.
Bishop posted 08-26-99 06:45 PM ET
White_Cat & Spoe
It was Jean Jaques Rosseau if I recall correctly
Bishop
Ronbo posted 08-26-99 07:32 PM ET
Voltaire is believed to have coined the above quote. Patrick Henry said "Give me liberty or give me death!"
ViVicdi posted 08-26-99 10:04 PM ET
Flag burning is sort of a leading indicator of wackoism which lies somewhere in between the hunger strike and the long-winded Manifesto.
GaryD posted 08-27-99 05:25 AM ET
Hardly wackoism. It's just a sign of disrespect, intended to inflame the country's citizens.
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Author	Topic: Should fascists have civil rights ?
Bishop	posted 08-24-99 06:05 PM ET The reason for me asking is that I recently read the program for one of the minor trotskyist fractions in Sweden, where they said that fascists shouldn�t have civil rights. I ask you can you build a democratic society when you divide people into desirables (sp?) and non-desirables ? I think not ! Bishop
Lurker	posted 08-24-99 06:20 PM ET The only acceptable social division is between those who blah and those who don't.
Bishop	posted 08-24-99 06:42 PM ET Try to be serious, will you ?
Krushala	posted 08-24-99 07:27 PM ET Obviously that should be yes. I know fascism is a dirty word in america right now. Anyone who proclaims they are fascist will stereotyped as a skin head neo-nazi. Whom many people will assume are criminals. But even criminals have rights in america. So everyone in this country has rights.
Koshko	posted 08-24-99 11:51 PM ET If you mean the right to act out their Fascism on people, No. If you mean having the same general rights as everyone else, Yes.
OhWell	posted 08-25-99 07:46 AM ET I agree with Koshko...
GaryD	posted 08-25-99 09:55 AM ET So we're all agreed. That's settled then.
OhWell	posted 08-25-99 10:53 AM ET Yea, but what about lefts? Should fascists have civil lefts? I, for one think not!
Bishop	posted 08-25-99 04:11 PM ET Nice to see that everyone agrees. OhWell I agree with you, after all we have to draw the line somewhere... Bishop
Krushala	posted 08-25-99 06:53 PM ET we can't have an argument if everyone agrees. Oh well. And Koshko what do you mean act out fascism on other people. Fascism isn't really a verb.
Koshko	posted 08-25-99 11:20 PM ET Even if you don't agree with what they say, they should be allowed to speak of thier ways. They are allowed their opinions. You can't have selective rights. What they should not be allowed to do is use their Rights as an excuse to force their ways on others. In other words, no violence and bully tactics should be allowed.
ViVicdi	posted 08-26-99 02:19 AM ET People should be judged by their actions, and this judgement should be absolute and without prejudice. Facists who steal, whether or not in the name of facism, deserve to go to jail, for no longer or shorter a period of time than any other thief. On the subject of whether or not censorship should be part of the law, it is a sign of weakness rather than strength when a country must outlaw expression. If we live in a country where people can burn the flag, and yet we still have the best economy, the best military, and the right to keep and bear arms, it is a testament to our strength and stability -- obviously the flag burners are the nutballs, not the rest of the country. It's sort of like the President playing golf while we're pounding Iraq. I call it the "Bermuda Shorts Theory" -- if you really want to show contempt for someone you are dealing with, wear Bermuda Shorts and put your feet on the desk -- preferably with no shoes on! The BS Theory is most useful in either provoking your adversary into overextending himself or concealing the extent of your own need for your adversary's cooperation so as to haggle more effectively. While he's grunting and sweating and hustling you're just kicking back enjoying the show. According to the BS Theory the best way to handle a flag burning is to nonchalantly ridicule the people doing it. If the protesters, in their rage at not being taken seriously, make the mistake of escalating, most people will place the need to restore order above the desire of the protesters to be acknowledged. Machiavellian theories aside, it's the right thing to do in a country with a First Amendment such as ours.
Bishop	posted 08-26-99 05:29 AM ET ViVicdi Do fascists burn the american flag ? I thought it was only people on the left wing who did that. Bishop
GaryD	posted 08-26-99 05:53 AM ET Not just them. People who have had their pasties maligned burn the flag also
White_Cat	posted 08-26-99 07:42 AM ET "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (Anyone know who it was that said this?)
Spoe	posted 08-26-99 11:32 AM ET Patrick Henry or one of that crowd.
sandworm	posted 08-26-99 03:20 PM ET sarcasm... We should start a government agency that is responsible for deciding what a fascist is, then expand it into a police force that goes out, picks them up, and takes them to concentration camps where they can be used in not-well-thought-out medical research. Seriously, in the US people have a constitutional right to be ignorant assholes, just so long as they're not hurting anyone else.
Bishop	posted 08-26-99 06:45 PM ET White_Cat & Spoe It was Jean Jaques Rosseau if I recall correctly Bishop
Ronbo	posted 08-26-99 07:32 PM ET Voltaire is believed to have coined the above quote. Patrick Henry said "Give me liberty or give me death!"
ViVicdi	posted 08-26-99 10:04 PM ET Flag burning is sort of a leading indicator of wackoism which lies somewhere in between the hunger strike and the long-winded Manifesto.
GaryD	posted 08-27-99 05:25 AM ET Hardly wackoism. It's just a sign of disrespect, intended to inflame the country's citizens.