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Darkstar posted 08-03-99 02:04 PM ET
Freak Them! After the recent editorial by JKM, in which he expounds that we are all whiny, low life whiners with nothing to do but worship and criticize Firaxis, I say BOYCOTT THEM! BOYCOTT THEM UNTIL JKM RELEASES AN APOLOGY!
No SMAC. No SMAC AX. No Civ3. No Gettysburg! No Antietami! Firaxis shall NOT have any more of our money!
JM, you were over the line as a public representative of Firaxis. In running your smoke and mirrors spells, and applying the biggest freaking diaper you could to Firaxis, you have insulted all of Firaxis's customers. We require an apology, or your job.
-Darkstar
JohnIII posted 08-03-99 02:14 PM ET
Where is this?
John III
Bishop posted 08-03-99 02:24 PM ET
Darkstar
I think you�re overly sensitive about this. But he�s right you know...You don�t have to be a computer programmer to realize that a very large portion of the worlds population are in fact morons...
Bishop
Bishop posted 08-03-99 02:26 PM ET
JohnIII
http://www.avault.com/articles/getarticle.asp?name=jmorris&page=1

Darkstar posted 08-03-99 02:36 PM ET
JohnIII, use this url to get to it:
http://www.avault.com/articles/getarticle.asp?name=jmorris&page=1
Bishop... All the world is a moron. But we don't pay Firaxis money to tell us that. We pay them for a product that is meant to entertain us. It is Q&A, in their Support role, to put up with us morons. I've worked Q&A. I've worked Tech Support. And I've even done PR on my path to my current profession. And you never, ever, ever, tell the customer they are a moron. Even if its your little brother. It doesn't matter if they keep shoving the CD-ROM into the 5.25" drive, its your job to walk them through and get them running as Support. In private, you make jokes. But you never ever do so in public. Because you are a representative of the company.
As one of Firaxis's more accessiable people, JM is often the ONLY contact point the public has with Firaxis. Whatever he says, however he acts, is public policy from Firaxis. If he's large and magnanimous in his approval of a fan site, that means Firaxis is large and magnanimous in its approval. If he is small and petty and makes personal attacks and threats, that too is a direct reflection of on Firaxis.
I can understand the impulse to cut up, or air some aggravation, but JM does not have that luxury in public, even with disclaimers that it isn't the official line. He STILL reflects on the company and his friends and associates in it. That's a fact of life, and human nature.
On the Internet, he can always take an ID, and flame the hell out of any of us. And I welcome him to. Or to have a nice vacation. But he was well over the line in his article...
-Darkstar
Spoe posted 08-03-99 03:34 PM ET
Uh, where exactly did he call us "whiny, low life whiners with nothing to do but worship and criticize Firaxis"? The closest to being derogatory to the average gamer was the comments that most don't consider that a bug may be caused by configuration issues on their computer(and believe me, many users fit this perfectly; I work the hell desk for a horse industry BBS/web site and I don't know how many times I've had a customer insist that there's something wrong on our end that keeps giving them a "NO DIAL TONE" error when they try to connect). I know this and yet I still have the tendency to blame the game(even in the face of repeated instances where relativly minor tweaking of my setup corrects the problem).
I thought it a well thought out argument for the impossibility of the bugless game(though the community argument for bugs being in our interest was a bit iffy). I wasn't insulted, and I saw no point that would give offense to any rational person(of course, there are plenty of customers that will get offended at the slightest hint that they or their equipment may be to blame).
In short, I see no cause for JM to apologize nor for anyone to boycott them.
Darkstar posted 08-03-99 03:52 PM ET
Spoe, there is a theory going around that I am having a bad day and reading too much into things. It is possible. But then, I have had to do a lot of corporate double talk, so I tend to translate it back into the original meaning without consciously thinking about it.
However, to claim that the users only effective reason to buy a game is to be able to experience the bugs so as to further bond with other posters through common experiences is a bit extreme. That would mean.. waste your money so you can come back here and join on the Unlimited Missiles bug.
That also implies that Firaxis was doing us a favor by not shaking the easily found and repeated bugs out. We shouldn't beat on THEM for providing the beers that let us drink together and be merry.
I tend to get insulted whenever someone tells me that they did me a favor, and didn't put brakes on three of my wheels on my auto on purpose. Or that there was air in the line that they knew was there, but thought it would be a nice way for me to run into somebody and meet them.
There is a lot of condensending attitude about their "vocal" community... and its an all inclusive thing, from the SMACophants to the SMACheritics. THAT is what has me fired up... we payed their mortages, and they are going to be so condescending as that? That needs a major readjustment of attitude.
-Darkstar
DanS posted 08-03-99 04:14 PM ET
Hmmm... I was offended by the tag line most of all. The fact of the matter is, JKM doesn't drink expensive beer. We all know that. Case closed.
JohnIII posted 08-03-99 04:39 PM ET
I thought that he was basically stating "What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger", and strongly upholds a sense of community.
John III
Spoe posted 08-03-99 04:44 PM ET
"However, to claim that the users only effective reason to buy a game is to be able to experience the bugs so as to further bond with other posters through common experiences is a bit extreme."
I did say that was a bit suspect, but hardly worth taking offense at. However it is a small(4 paragraphs) part of the editorial. I think this argument is mostly false, but there is a kernel of truth there(though I think in a SMAC type game the arguments of game balance are more than enough). And he certainly didn't say it was the only effective reason to buy a game; he merely said that the gaming community "have strong interests in games not being 100 percent bug free", which, while put too strongly, is a far cry from being the exclusive reason buy games.
I'm afraid I just don't see a condescending attitude in the editorial.
Darkstar posted 08-03-99 05:08 PM ET
If I didn't know better, Spoe, I'd think you have the same dry humor as JKM.
If you don't see it, then don't add weight to this thread. Start a "Darkstar is just muddled in the head today" Thread. Heck, Fair is Fair. I'll start it...
-Darkstar
luzerKing posted 08-03-99 05:20 PM ET
You are absolutely correct when you say it is not the place of the company, regardless of their motives, to call their clients or customers "morons." Therefore, not being a rep of Firaxis, let me take the liberty to say.....you guys are morons.
Bishop posted 08-03-99 07:00 PM ET
Darkstar
As I said earlier (somewhere) I thought that JM�s theories about the social factors of SMAC-bugs is a wee bit over the edge, but other than that he is basically right. Also, I don�t agree with you on JM being Firaxis in the editorial, it was quite clearly stated that he did this as a private person rather a representative of Firaxis. It�s true he�s a representative of Firaxis, but he�s also an individual, entitled to views and opinions regarding things that aren�t necessarily Firaxis� views and opinions.
BTW What was wrong with my link ? (Since you needed to type it once again I mean) Just wondering
Bishop
Darkstar posted 08-03-99 07:09 PM ET
Bishop, please see this twin thread in Games. I do not feel like boosting it over at the time, but its actually NOT the "Internet cmmunity is a bunch of yahoos that only buy the game to further bond" bit that REALLY has me fired up. Its being told slyly that all bugs in all products, and all future products, are "My own stupidity or my bad hardware".
There was nothing wrong with your link. It wasn't there though when I started the reply.
-Darkstar
(I'll boost it later over, for you Off Topic Purist)
Bishop posted 08-03-99 07:33 PM ET
Darkstar
I post in The Game forum occasionally, and I read your reply there. Maybe you shouldn�t have posted it in two separate forums ? Maybe we should move this discussion to The Game forum ?
Bishop
Darkstar posted 08-03-99 07:37 PM ET
Bishop... actually I posted it across all public forums. The "boycott" thread disappeared within 2 minutes on all forums except this and Games.
-Darkstar
Misho posted 08-03-99 07:54 PM ET
Well, I don't know for "morons" problem, but I know this:
Damned ASSHOLES who manage this site put away all my posts and the most interesting topic- one about "luzer" sickness!!!
They'll pay for this, I swear.

I'll penetrate their computer with new excellent Russian troian, and they surely don't have protection program for this one.
I'll try do some pretty pretty damage to their hards.
And I also have to say this: I think I am really big fool!
I purchased all original products of Sid Meier and Firaxis for some big price.
And I could buy a pirate CD of "Alpha Centaury" for exactly 5 $!!!
Damn! They won't get my money anymore, I swear. From now, I am buying just pirate games created by Meier and company!!!
They are just ignorant thieves and nothing else.
You can't move people's posts away!
I say:

KILL'EM ALL

MiKaeLe posted 08-03-99 10:17 PM ET
Damn it Misho, you haven't had a post in the last few days without a demonstration of your excellent knowledge of HTML. Are you so happy that you finally learned something that you can demonstrate immediatly infront of a public that you just cannot get the fu*k out of here and leave us alone? Not that I am here, but I am getting sick of you and you'r non-sense posts.
And just what the fu*k is all that crap about a Russian trojan..you gonna put a trojan on a server? LOL..that is damn funny Misho. Maybe you are turning into a comediant after proving yourself as a asshole on a numerous occasions?
What I am concluding now is that you, after learning some basic HTML are feeling strong enough to lie around here about you beeing a hacker and prove yourself once more as a worthless piece of sh*t.
If you're strong enough, please tell me your IP, and I'll tell you in which way you can get rid of your nice computer the fastest.
For reference(not that it will make any difference to you Misho) my IP is: 196.25.13.24
MiK�Le
Darkstar posted 08-04-99 01:01 AM ET
Bishop, I will bring across some of my "rant" tomorrow if need be. I think the article is pretty clear about what was said (Really DS? No duh? ). For those that don't think so, I am willing to try and show them the corporate double-speak. Maybe the whole article was one freaking lark/troll by JM, but I don't think so. Although if he would like to "step" forward and say so, I will apologize for going over the top. But I don't see it going to happen.
Misho, hacking the server isn't cool (especially not formatting the HDs). And it can get you into trouble. Especially if you aren't a real cracker jack. The amount of trails left behind can be staggering. And there is probably more than just Firaxis SMAC UBB here. Which would make it highly impolite to the others here. You only want to get the ones that you are mad at, right?
I also do not approve of pirating. But then, I can afford to be disappointed or thrilled with a game easily. I know that not all can. Too bad. Pirating is one of the reasons that Game Companies use to justify treating customers like 3 day old dried dog doo.
-Darkstar
SnowFire posted 08-04-99 08:48 AM ET
I for one saw no problem with the article, and while the part about "bugs keep the community together" may have been a bit off-kilter, everything else didn't seem offensive.
Darkstar posted 08-05-99 08:07 PM ET
SnowFire, I think you just bought the same lines a lot of others did. There is a party afoot to get JM as the next president. He could tell us all sorts of things, and noone would notice. Great diplomatic skill...
If you are interested, check the Games forum if you haven't already. I'd rather not promote the level of anger that Misho is advocating. I'd like an apology, true, or a statement at least. Otherwise, Firaxis has probably inflicted enough insults on this thin-skinned professional to stop paying their future bills. At least, until Sid3...
-Darkstar
Picker posted 08-09-99 09:36 PM ET
As a man who works with the general public, I must say that the average person is indeed a moron, however, the average computer user is not. And those of us who play games like SMAC are ussually on the upper end of the scale.
Dreadnought posted 08-10-99 03:16 AM ET
Aughhhh, first thread I click on here after a week and a half and it's already filled with Misho propoganda......
GaryD posted 08-10-99 04:14 AM ET
Just got around to reading Jeff's article.
I think you are are over-reacting by miles.
I might not agree with all Jeff says, and, as we all do, I think he has over exaggerated his point of view, but that aside, it seems to be put in a reasonable, and non-insulting manner.
(Unless you forgot the ironics of course.)
Bishop posted 08-10-99 04:29 AM ET
GaryD
I couldn�t agree with you more ! I noticed something though, it seems that the majority of the "kill JM and eat his bones"-crowd is american. Does that mean that americans are more easily offended ? As I recall not one non-american demanded JM head on a platter (or at least his job).
Bishop
Bishop posted 08-10-99 04:31 AM ET
Sorry that should have been JM�s head on a platter.
Bishop
Wants post edit
GaryD posted 08-10-99 06:27 AM ET
Ah but you have to remember that the US is the land of free speech (and of suing the ass off the other guy )
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Author	Topic: Boycott All Firaxis Products!
Darkstar	posted 08-03-99 02:04 PM ET Freak Them! After the recent editorial by JKM, in which he expounds that we are all whiny, low life whiners with nothing to do but worship and criticize Firaxis, I say BOYCOTT THEM! BOYCOTT THEM UNTIL JKM RELEASES AN APOLOGY! No SMAC. No SMAC AX. No Civ3. No Gettysburg! No Antietami! Firaxis shall NOT have any more of our money! JM, you were over the line as a public representative of Firaxis. In running your smoke and mirrors spells, and applying the biggest freaking diaper you could to Firaxis, you have insulted all of Firaxis's customers. We require an apology, or your job. -Darkstar
JohnIII	posted 08-03-99 02:14 PM ET Where is this? John III
Bishop	posted 08-03-99 02:24 PM ET Darkstar I think you�re overly sensitive about this. But he�s right you know...You don�t have to be a computer programmer to realize that a very large portion of the worlds population are in fact morons... Bishop
Bishop	posted 08-03-99 02:26 PM ET JohnIII http://www.avault.com/articles/getarticle.asp?name=jmorris&page=1
Darkstar	posted 08-03-99 02:36 PM ET JohnIII, use this url to get to it: http://www.avault.com/articles/getarticle.asp?name=jmorris&page=1 Bishop... All the world is a moron. But we don't pay Firaxis money to tell us that. We pay them for a product that is meant to entertain us. It is Q&A, in their Support role, to put up with us morons. I've worked Q&A. I've worked Tech Support. And I've even done PR on my path to my current profession. And you never, ever, ever, tell the customer they are a moron. Even if its your little brother. It doesn't matter if they keep shoving the CD-ROM into the 5.25" drive, its your job to walk them through and get them running as Support. In private, you make jokes. But you never ever do so in public. Because you are a representative of the company. As one of Firaxis's more accessiable people, JM is often the ONLY contact point the public has with Firaxis. Whatever he says, however he acts, is public policy from Firaxis. If he's large and magnanimous in his approval of a fan site, that means Firaxis is large and magnanimous in its approval. If he is small and petty and makes personal attacks and threats, that too is a direct reflection of on Firaxis. I can understand the impulse to cut up, or air some aggravation, but JM does not have that luxury in public, even with disclaimers that it isn't the official line. He STILL reflects on the company and his friends and associates in it. That's a fact of life, and human nature. On the Internet, he can always take an ID, and flame the hell out of any of us. And I welcome him to. Or to have a nice vacation. But he was well over the line in his article... -Darkstar
Spoe	posted 08-03-99 03:34 PM ET Uh, where exactly did he call us "whiny, low life whiners with nothing to do but worship and criticize Firaxis"? The closest to being derogatory to the average gamer was the comments that most don't consider that a bug may be caused by configuration issues on their computer(and believe me, many users fit this perfectly; I work the hell desk for a horse industry BBS/web site and I don't know how many times I've had a customer insist that there's something wrong on our end that keeps giving them a "NO DIAL TONE" error when they try to connect). I know this and yet I still have the tendency to blame the game(even in the face of repeated instances where relativly minor tweaking of my setup corrects the problem). I thought it a well thought out argument for the impossibility of the bugless game(though the community argument for bugs being in our interest was a bit iffy). I wasn't insulted, and I saw no point that would give offense to any rational person(of course, there are plenty of customers that will get offended at the slightest hint that they or their equipment may be to blame). In short, I see no cause for JM to apologize nor for anyone to boycott them.
Darkstar	posted 08-03-99 03:52 PM ET Spoe, there is a theory going around that I am having a bad day and reading too much into things. It is possible. But then, I have had to do a lot of corporate double talk, so I tend to translate it back into the original meaning without consciously thinking about it. However, to claim that the users only effective reason to buy a game is to be able to experience the bugs so as to further bond with other posters through common experiences is a bit extreme. That would mean.. waste your money so you can come back here and join on the Unlimited Missiles bug. That also implies that Firaxis was doing us a favor by not shaking the easily found and repeated bugs out. We shouldn't beat on THEM for providing the beers that let us drink together and be merry. I tend to get insulted whenever someone tells me that they did me a favor, and didn't put brakes on three of my wheels on my auto on purpose. Or that there was air in the line that they knew was there, but thought it would be a nice way for me to run into somebody and meet them. There is a lot of condensending attitude about their "vocal" community... and its an all inclusive thing, from the SMACophants to the SMACheritics. THAT is what has me fired up... we payed their mortages, and they are going to be so condescending as that? That needs a major readjustment of attitude. -Darkstar
DanS	posted 08-03-99 04:14 PM ET Hmmm... I was offended by the tag line most of all. The fact of the matter is, JKM doesn't drink expensive beer. We all know that. Case closed.
JohnIII	posted 08-03-99 04:39 PM ET I thought that he was basically stating "What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger", and strongly upholds a sense of community. John III
Spoe	posted 08-03-99 04:44 PM ET "However, to claim that the users only effective reason to buy a game is to be able to experience the bugs so as to further bond with other posters through common experiences is a bit extreme." I did say that was a bit suspect, but hardly worth taking offense at. However it is a small(4 paragraphs) part of the editorial. I think this argument is mostly false, but there is a kernel of truth there(though I think in a SMAC type game the arguments of game balance are more than enough). And he certainly didn't say it was the only effective reason to buy a game; he merely said that the gaming community "have strong interests in games not being 100 percent bug free", which, while put too strongly, is a far cry from being the exclusive reason buy games. I'm afraid I just don't see a condescending attitude in the editorial.
Darkstar	posted 08-03-99 05:08 PM ET If I didn't know better, Spoe, I'd think you have the same dry humor as JKM. If you don't see it, then don't add weight to this thread. Start a "Darkstar is just muddled in the head today" Thread. Heck, Fair is Fair. I'll start it... -Darkstar
luzerKing	posted 08-03-99 05:20 PM ET You are absolutely correct when you say it is not the place of the company, regardless of their motives, to call their clients or customers "morons." Therefore, not being a rep of Firaxis, let me take the liberty to say.....you guys are morons.
Bishop	posted 08-03-99 07:00 PM ET Darkstar As I said earlier (somewhere) I thought that JM�s theories about the social factors of SMAC-bugs is a wee bit over the edge, but other than that he is basically right. Also, I don�t agree with you on JM being Firaxis in the editorial, it was quite clearly stated that he did this as a private person rather a representative of Firaxis. It�s true he�s a representative of Firaxis, but he�s also an individual, entitled to views and opinions regarding things that aren�t necessarily Firaxis� views and opinions. BTW What was wrong with my link ? (Since you needed to type it once again I mean) Just wondering Bishop
Darkstar	posted 08-03-99 07:09 PM ET Bishop, please see this twin thread in Games. I do not feel like boosting it over at the time, but its actually NOT the "Internet cmmunity is a bunch of yahoos that only buy the game to further bond" bit that REALLY has me fired up. Its being told slyly that all bugs in all products, and all future products, are "My own stupidity or my bad hardware". There was nothing wrong with your link. It wasn't there though when I started the reply. -Darkstar (I'll boost it later over, for you Off Topic Purist)
Bishop	posted 08-03-99 07:33 PM ET Darkstar I post in The Game forum occasionally, and I read your reply there. Maybe you shouldn�t have posted it in two separate forums ? Maybe we should move this discussion to The Game forum ? Bishop
Darkstar	posted 08-03-99 07:37 PM ET Bishop... actually I posted it across all public forums. The "boycott" thread disappeared within 2 minutes on all forums except this and Games. -Darkstar
Misho	posted 08-03-99 07:54 PM ET Well, I don't know for "morons" problem, but I know this: Damned ASSHOLES who manage this site put away all my posts and the most interesting topic- one about "luzer" sickness!!! They'll pay for this, I swear. I'll penetrate their computer with new excellent Russian troian, and they surely don't have protection program for this one. I'll try do some pretty pretty damage to their hards. And I also have to say this: I think I am really big fool! I purchased all original products of Sid Meier and Firaxis for some big price. And I could buy a pirate CD of "Alpha Centaury" for exactly 5 $!!! Damn! They won't get my money anymore, I swear. From now, I am buying just pirate games created by Meier and company!!! They are just ignorant thieves and nothing else. You can't move people's posts away! I say: KILL'EM ALL
MiKaeLe	posted 08-03-99 10:17 PM ET Damn it Misho, you haven't had a post in the last few days without a demonstration of your excellent knowledge of HTML. Are you so happy that you finally learned something that you can demonstrate immediatly infront of a public that you just cannot get the fuk out of here and leave us alone? Not that I am here, but I am getting sick of you and you'r non-sense posts. And just what the fuk is all that crap about a Russian trojan..you gonna put a trojan on a server? LOL..that is damn funny Misho. Maybe you are turning into a comediant after proving yourself as a asshole on a numerous occasions? What I am concluding now is that you, after learning some basic HTML are feeling strong enough to lie around here about you beeing a hacker and prove yourself once more as a worthless piece of sht. If you're strong enough, please tell me your IP, and I'll tell you in which way you can get rid of your nice computer the fastest. For reference(not that it will make any difference to you Misho) my IP is: 196.25.13.24 MiK�Le*
Darkstar	posted 08-04-99 01:01 AM ET Bishop, I will bring across some of my "rant" tomorrow if need be. I think the article is pretty clear about what was said (Really DS? No duh? ). For those that don't think so, I am willing to try and show them the corporate double-speak. Maybe the whole article was one freaking lark/troll by JM, but I don't think so. Although if he would like to "step" forward and say so, I will apologize for going over the top. But I don't see it going to happen. Misho, hacking the server isn't cool (especially not formatting the HDs). And it can get you into trouble. Especially if you aren't a real cracker jack. The amount of trails left behind can be staggering. And there is probably more than just Firaxis SMAC UBB here. Which would make it highly impolite to the others here. You only want to get the ones that you are mad at, right? I also do not approve of pirating. But then, I can afford to be disappointed or thrilled with a game easily. I know that not all can. Too bad. Pirating is one of the reasons that Game Companies use to justify treating customers like 3 day old dried dog doo. -Darkstar
SnowFire	posted 08-04-99 08:48 AM ET I for one saw no problem with the article, and while the part about "bugs keep the community together" may have been a bit off-kilter, everything else didn't seem offensive.
Darkstar	posted 08-05-99 08:07 PM ET SnowFire, I think you just bought the same lines a lot of others did. There is a party afoot to get JM as the next president. He could tell us all sorts of things, and noone would notice. Great diplomatic skill... If you are interested, check the Games forum if you haven't already. I'd rather not promote the level of anger that Misho is advocating. I'd like an apology, true, or a statement at least. Otherwise, Firaxis has probably inflicted enough insults on this thin-skinned professional to stop paying their future bills. At least, until Sid3... -Darkstar
Picker	posted 08-09-99 09:36 PM ET As a man who works with the general public, I must say that the average person is indeed a moron, however, the average computer user is not. And those of us who play games like SMAC are ussually on the upper end of the scale.
Dreadnought	posted 08-10-99 03:16 AM ET Aughhhh, first thread I click on here after a week and a half and it's already filled with Misho propoganda......
GaryD	posted 08-10-99 04:14 AM ET Just got around to reading Jeff's article. I think you are are over-reacting by miles. I might not agree with all Jeff says, and, as we all do, I think he has over exaggerated his point of view, but that aside, it seems to be put in a reasonable, and non-insulting manner. (Unless you forgot the ironics of course.)
Bishop	posted 08-10-99 04:29 AM ET GaryD I couldn�t agree with you more ! I noticed something though, it seems that the majority of the "kill JM and eat his bones"-crowd is american. Does that mean that americans are more easily offended ? As I recall not one non-american demanded JM head on a platter (or at least his job). Bishop
Bishop	posted 08-10-99 04:31 AM ET Sorry that should have been JM�s head on a platter. Bishop Wants post edit
GaryD	posted 08-10-99 06:27 AM ET Ah but you have to remember that the US is the land of free speech (and of suing the ass off the other guy )

Damned ASSHOLES who manage this site put away all my posts and the most interesting topic- one about "luzer" sickness!!!They'll pay for this, I swear.

KILL'EM ALL

Damned ASSHOLES who manage this site put away all my posts and the most interesting topic- one about "luzer" sickness!!!
They'll pay for this, I swear.