The Racist Menace? - Alpha Centauri Forums

  Alpha Centauri Forums
  Non-SMAC related
  The Racist Menace?

profile | register | prefs | faq | search

Author Topic:   The Racist Menace?

White_Cat posted 07-17-99 02:10 AM ET
What does everyone think of the accusations that Jar Jar and some other characters from the new Star Wars movie are racial stereotypes? Peronally, I think it's a bunch of sensationalist bunk made up by various media outlets as they try to outdo each other at bashing one of the most highly anticipated movies ever.
Probably the best indicator that they're bogus is the fact that the accusers can't agree on who's being slighted. Here's a list of the characters and the many groups I've heard they're supposedly stereotyping:
Jar Jar: Blacks, Caribbeans/Jamaicans (I know there were others, but I can't remember them.)
Watto: Jews, Arabs, Italians, French
Neimodians: Asians, French-Canadians
George Lucas had this to say on the matter:

quote:
"It's completely absurd - Jar Jar was not drawn from a Jamaican."
"Those criticisms are made by people who've obviously never met a Jamaican, because it's definitely not Jamaican and if you were to say those lines in Jamaican they wouldn't be anything like the way Jar Jar Binks says them."
"They're basing a whole issue of racism on an accent, an accent that they don't understand. Therefore if they don't understand it, it
must be bad."
"How in the world you could take an orange amphibian and say that he's a Jamaican? It's completely absurd. Believe me, Jar Jar was
not drawn from a Jamaican, from any stretch of the imagination."
He said the allegations said more about the people making the claims than they did about his film.
Ahmed Best, who player Jar Jar, had this to say:

quote:
"I think the whole thing's kind of ridiculous. Here are people looking at a cartoon character and reading in all these racism issues. You may as well accuse Popeye or Bugs Bunny of racism ... Any review for me is a good review, because it means I've created a character believable enough for people to hate!"
Here's a cartoon that pretty much sums up my view on the matter:

Dreadnought posted 07-17-99 02:31 AM ET
Yes, it is pretty absurd. It seems the only accents that arent labeled as stereotypes are American ones. Meh.
ViVicdi posted 07-17-99 02:56 AM ET
Freudian projections of an embittered subconcious are no reason to hate Jar-Jar ... can't we all just hate him because he's annoying?!
Trappist posted 07-17-99 04:04 AM ET
The accusations were clearly made be someone with way too much spare time on their hands. You may as well argue that the character of C-3PO is a stereotype of gay Englishmen.
Spoe posted 07-17-99 10:36 AM ET
My personal favorite was that claimed that the Taco Bell chihuahua was a 'hate-crime'.
White_Cat posted 07-23-99 05:54 PM ET
So, is there anyone here who thinks that TPM is racist? If so, why?
ViVicdi posted 07-25-99 03:17 AM ET
LucasFilm is famous; LucasArts you've heard of, but LucasBank you haven't -- that's where the Yen are laundered (as opposed to ILM which only deals in counterfeiting.) Yen laundering you may well ask? But why? Because The Phantom Menace is paid Japanese Imperial propaganda!
Darth Maul obviously represents the Native Pacific Islander religion, under the control of Palpatine, a sinister analogue of Uncle Sam, or the United States, while the naieve queen he manipulates is obviously Lilioulukalani. The Force represents the superior Japanese-style Buddhism, which in a new twist on Imperial policy will be introduced missionary-style onto all subjugated island peoples.
Bear with me, here: The discovery of Anakin corresponds to the discovery of Amelia Airhart, still alive and living with Yamamoto (Yoda!), who also survived by parachuting to the very same island. Naturally the island they were marooned on was transformed by the powers of illusion into the planet Tatooine, but they can't fool me. All that sand? A big "port" called Mos Eisely? The writing is on the wall!
Obviously this is a prelude to a new Pearl Harbor, only this time the sneak attack is in the hearts and minds of good, decent Americans! This is just to soften us up so that Hirohito's hidden Imperial Army (Japan's thriving democracy is just a cover) can get their groping hands on the Bikinis ... missionary style!
Natguy posted 07-27-99 09:25 AM ET
Um...Okaaaayy....Wasn't Hirohito executed after WWII?
ViVicdi posted 07-27-99 12:01 PM ET
Actually I believe the keeping of the Emperor as a figurehead was one of the things the Japanese insisted on, making the surrender slightly-less-than-unconditional.
You've really got to hand it to them -- 2 nukes and they still didn't surrender all the way.
I could be wrong; it's been a long time since I learned what I learned about that particular moment in history, and I might not be remembering it correctly. But I'm pretty sure Hirohito and the royal family stayed on in Japan in much the same way "monarchy" lingers on in England.
Natguy posted 07-27-99 01:52 PM ET
Actually, the Japanese were about to surrender anyway. The Americans didn't need to drop The Bombs.(And actually the real reason they were going to surrender was that they had heard that the USSR was about to invade)
Spoe posted 07-27-99 02:33 PM ET
They surrendered unconditionally(when I was in high school I ate lunch every day under a copy of the instrument of surrender; they had a bunch of historical documents up). We let Hirohito stay on as a figurehead and pretty much dictated the Japanese constitution.
Before the bombings, Japan made some overtures to a conditional surrender(the condition being that Hirohito would stay on the throne, perhaps the "unconditional" surrender had some unspoken and unwritten conditions, eh?). After the bombings they offered unconditional surrender within a matter of days(Nagasaki, 9 Aug 1945; surrender offered 10 Aug 1945(which was unofficially accepted the following day); instrument of surrender signs 2 Sep 1945). I'd say there's a pretty good case for cause and effect.
Dreadnought posted 07-27-99 03:27 PM ET
Uh oh, you guys better watch out, or you-know-who might come around....
Saras posted 07-28-99 03:09 AM ET
ROTFLMAO!!!
Shining1 posted 07-28-99 05:32 AM ET
Vivicdi: You had me agreeing with you up until that pacific islander stuff. Please tell me that this was some kind of satire.
I do find Jar Jar Binks reminds me heavily of a caribbean stereo type, and the character is obviously based around these lines - not around an actual, real life jamacian, but a slighly warped version of a general perception in the western world. And between the accents and the garb, it's very hard to miss the Japanese Empirial stuff with the trade federation. There are others as well, like the Roman style triumph at the end of the movie.
Instead of crying racist, I think that all this signifies is that GL isn't the writer he once was, and is having trouble coming up with heroes and villians to match the marketing profile given to him. Most writers work with stereotypes in one form or other, they're just a bit more subtle with it.
Trappist: Gay? Not necessarily. But the highly strung, nervous conservative type - definitely.
ViVicdi posted 07-28-99 01:13 PM ET
Man, if the "Amelia Airheart is still alive" thing was interpreted even slightly out-of-phase with raw, naked satire, it's no wonder Jar-Jar has provoked such wrath. Talk about losing all sense of humor.
"Grope the Bikinis?" Come on ... it doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to see that my choice of words was no coincidence ...
dilbert posted 07-28-99 05:30 PM ET
Has anyone noticed the name of the Trade Federation viceroy? His name is Nute, pronounced the same way as Newt(Gingrich), and his buddy in the Republican senate is (Trent?) Lott.
Dreadnought posted 07-28-99 08:29 PM ET
I woud'nt be suprised, Dillbert. If the SW series symbolize one thing, it's symbolism.

Wait a second........
CrayonX posted 07-29-99 03:02 AM ET
I think people read too much into these things. People need to lighten up.
CrayonX
---
Sidious: I have found an apprentice for you...1/8 your size.
Maul: I think I will call him "Mini Maul".
Dreadnought posted 07-29-99 03:32 AM ET
I agree, society these days is to "PC".
White_Cat posted 07-29-99 08:02 AM ET
Yesterday, I found an essay on this topic, written by someone who happens to be a member of one of the supposedly-stereotyped minorites. You can read it here.
Shadwhawk posted 07-29-99 02:43 PM ET
Just got around to looking at your profile, White Cat...I thought you were the same White Cat from Datamaster's site, but I was never really sure.
Yea, Mike Wong's essay on racism in Star Wars is excellent, and I recommend reading it to -anyone- who has jumped on the 'TMP is racist!' bandwagon, or even claims to understand why the cry of racism has been made.
Basically, that picture you posted with your first article sums up Mike's position, as well as mine.
Shadowhawk
To close this thread, click here (moderator or admin only).


Hop to:

Contact Us | Alpha Centauri Home

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.18
© Madrona Park, Inc., 1998.

Author	Topic: The Racist Menace?
White_Cat	posted 07-17-99 02:10 AM ET What does everyone think of the accusations that Jar Jar and some other characters from the new Star Wars movie are racial stereotypes? Peronally, I think it's a bunch of sensationalist bunk made up by various media outlets as they try to outdo each other at bashing one of the most highly anticipated movies ever. Probably the best indicator that they're bogus is the fact that the accusers can't agree on who's being slighted. Here's a list of the characters and the many groups I've heard they're supposedly stereotyping: Jar Jar: Blacks, Caribbeans/Jamaicans (I know there were others, but I can't remember them.) Watto: Jews, Arabs, Italians, French Neimodians: Asians, French-Canadians George Lucas had this to say on the matter: quote: "It's completely absurd - Jar Jar was not drawn from a Jamaican." "Those criticisms are made by people who've obviously never met a Jamaican, because it's definitely not Jamaican and if you were to say those lines in Jamaican they wouldn't be anything like the way Jar Jar Binks says them." "They're basing a whole issue of racism on an accent, an accent that they don't understand. Therefore if they don't understand it, it must be bad." "How in the world you could take an orange amphibian and say that he's a Jamaican? It's completely absurd. Believe me, Jar Jar was not drawn from a Jamaican, from any stretch of the imagination." He said the allegations said more about the people making the claims than they did about his film. Ahmed Best, who player Jar Jar, had this to say: quote: "I think the whole thing's kind of ridiculous. Here are people looking at a cartoon character and reading in all these racism issues. You may as well accuse Popeye or Bugs Bunny of racism ... Any review for me is a good review, because it means I've created a character believable enough for people to hate!" Here's a cartoon that pretty much sums up my view on the matter:
Dreadnought	posted 07-17-99 02:31 AM ET Yes, it is pretty absurd. It seems the only accents that arent labeled as stereotypes are American ones. Meh.
ViVicdi	posted 07-17-99 02:56 AM ET Freudian projections of an embittered subconcious are no reason to hate Jar-Jar ... can't we all just hate him because he's annoying?!
Trappist	posted 07-17-99 04:04 AM ET The accusations were clearly made be someone with way too much spare time on their hands. You may as well argue that the character of C-3PO is a stereotype of gay Englishmen.
Spoe	posted 07-17-99 10:36 AM ET My personal favorite was that claimed that the Taco Bell chihuahua was a 'hate-crime'.
White_Cat	posted 07-23-99 05:54 PM ET So, is there anyone here who thinks that TPM is racist? If so, why?
ViVicdi	posted 07-25-99 03:17 AM ET LucasFilm is famous; LucasArts you've heard of, but LucasBank you haven't -- that's where the Yen are laundered (as opposed to ILM which only deals in counterfeiting.) Yen laundering you may well ask? But why? Because The Phantom Menace is paid Japanese Imperial propaganda! Darth Maul obviously represents the Native Pacific Islander religion, under the control of Palpatine, a sinister analogue of Uncle Sam, or the United States, while the naieve queen he manipulates is obviously Lilioulukalani. The Force represents the superior Japanese-style Buddhism, which in a new twist on Imperial policy will be introduced missionary-style onto all subjugated island peoples. Bear with me, here: The discovery of Anakin corresponds to the discovery of Amelia Airhart, still alive and living with Yamamoto (Yoda!), who also survived by parachuting to the very same island. Naturally the island they were marooned on was transformed by the powers of illusion into the planet Tatooine, but they can't fool me. All that sand? A big "port" called Mos Eisely? The writing is on the wall! Obviously this is a prelude to a new Pearl Harbor, only this time the sneak attack is in the hearts and minds of good, decent Americans! This is just to soften us up so that Hirohito's hidden Imperial Army (Japan's thriving democracy is just a cover) can get their groping hands on the Bikinis ... missionary style!
Natguy	posted 07-27-99 09:25 AM ET Um...Okaaaayy....Wasn't Hirohito executed after WWII?
ViVicdi	posted 07-27-99 12:01 PM ET Actually I believe the keeping of the Emperor as a figurehead was one of the things the Japanese insisted on, making the surrender slightly-less-than-unconditional. You've really got to hand it to them -- 2 nukes and they still didn't surrender all the way. I could be wrong; it's been a long time since I learned what I learned about that particular moment in history, and I might not be remembering it correctly. But I'm pretty sure Hirohito and the royal family stayed on in Japan in much the same way "monarchy" lingers on in England.
Natguy	posted 07-27-99 01:52 PM ET Actually, the Japanese were about to surrender anyway. The Americans didn't need to drop The Bombs.(And actually the real reason they were going to surrender was that they had heard that the USSR was about to invade)
Spoe	posted 07-27-99 02:33 PM ET They surrendered unconditionally(when I was in high school I ate lunch every day under a copy of the instrument of surrender; they had a bunch of historical documents up). We let Hirohito stay on as a figurehead and pretty much dictated the Japanese constitution. Before the bombings, Japan made some overtures to a conditional surrender(the condition being that Hirohito would stay on the throne, perhaps the "unconditional" surrender had some unspoken and unwritten conditions, eh?). After the bombings they offered unconditional surrender within a matter of days(Nagasaki, 9 Aug 1945; surrender offered 10 Aug 1945(which was unofficially accepted the following day); instrument of surrender signs 2 Sep 1945). I'd say there's a pretty good case for cause and effect.
Dreadnought	posted 07-27-99 03:27 PM ET Uh oh, you guys better watch out, or you-know-who might come around....
Saras	posted 07-28-99 03:09 AM ET ROTFLMAO!!!
Shining1	posted 07-28-99 05:32 AM ET Vivicdi: You had me agreeing with you up until that pacific islander stuff. Please tell me that this was some kind of satire. I do find Jar Jar Binks reminds me heavily of a caribbean stereo type, and the character is obviously based around these lines - not around an actual, real life jamacian, but a slighly warped version of a general perception in the western world. And between the accents and the garb, it's very hard to miss the Japanese Empirial stuff with the trade federation. There are others as well, like the Roman style triumph at the end of the movie. Instead of crying racist, I think that all this signifies is that GL isn't the writer he once was, and is having trouble coming up with heroes and villians to match the marketing profile given to him. Most writers work with stereotypes in one form or other, they're just a bit more subtle with it. Trappist: Gay? Not necessarily. But the highly strung, nervous conservative type - definitely.
ViVicdi	posted 07-28-99 01:13 PM ET Man, if the "Amelia Airheart is still alive" thing was interpreted even slightly out-of-phase with raw, naked satire, it's no wonder Jar-Jar has provoked such wrath. Talk about losing all sense of humor. "Grope the Bikinis?" Come on ... it doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to see that my choice of words was no coincidence ...
dilbert	posted 07-28-99 05:30 PM ET Has anyone noticed the name of the Trade Federation viceroy? His name is Nute, pronounced the same way as Newt(Gingrich), and his buddy in the Republican senate is (Trent?) Lott.
Dreadnought	posted 07-28-99 08:29 PM ET I woud'nt be suprised, Dillbert. If the SW series symbolize one thing, it's symbolism. Wait a second........
CrayonX	posted 07-29-99 03:02 AM ET I think people read too much into these things. People need to lighten up. CrayonX --- Sidious: I have found an apprentice for you...1/8 your size. Maul: I think I will call him "Mini Maul".
Dreadnought	posted 07-29-99 03:32 AM ET I agree, society these days is to "PC".
White_Cat	posted 07-29-99 08:02 AM ET Yesterday, I found an essay on this topic, written by someone who happens to be a member of one of the supposedly-stereotyped minorites. You can read it here.
Shadwhawk	posted 07-29-99 02:43 PM ET Just got around to looking at your profile, White Cat...I thought you were the same White Cat from Datamaster's site, but I was never really sure. Yea, Mike Wong's essay on racism in Star Wars is excellent, and I recommend reading it to -anyone- who has jumped on the 'TMP is racist!' bandwagon, or even claims to understand why the cry of racism has been made. Basically, that picture you posted with your first article sums up Mike's position, as well as mine. Shadowhawk