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Author Topic:   Human Cloning

umbra1 posted 06-24-99 08:11 AM ET
I've just been listening to the Radio1 news: Their piece on human cloning...

"Today the government is expected to change the rules on cloning. If scientists are given the go-ahead, they'd be allowed to use human embryos for medical research."
This was followed by half a dozen vox pops of people, with quotes of "Disgusting !", "We're unique, what do you want clones for ?", etc. Radio1 are currently doing a poll on what the public think of human cloning here .
Personally I want to know why people think that human genetic material is sacred or taboo ? Aren't you denying yourself a useful tool ?
GaryD posted 06-24-99 08:16 AM ET
Knew it had to be a UK individual on reading that
I think it's all down to how far you go before you decide you're messing about with another human being as opposed to a lot of cells. Line drawing is notoriously difficult.
I like to see discussions on this subject as I have yet to be convinced that cloning per se is bad, but some of the possibilities I've come across resulting from the technique are much more dodgy.
By the way, if clones are not unique, does that mean identical twins aren't either ? Arrhhh abomination ! Burn the twins !
GaryD posted 06-24-99 08:21 AM ET
From news.bbc.co.uk
UK keeps human cloning ban
The UK Government puts off a controversial decision on human cloning because of public concern, saying more medical research is needed into the issue.
ALSO:
Government response to human cloning
Cloning may lead to 'medical revolution'
The emerging cell technologies
Dreadnought posted 06-24-99 08:25 AM ET
I always shake my head in digust whenever I hear about people speaking against cloning. What I would like to know is this, why are people so against cloning? I guess people are just easily swayed by public opinion. Heaven forbid we should have another Albert Einstien........
umbra1 posted 06-24-99 11:09 AM ET
I think cloning is eventually going to be on of the biggest industries on Earth, once the fear of the unknown has been overcome.
Hopefully the technology will be available in the next 10 to 20 years, because I don't think my heart, liver, kidneys and lungs are going to take much more punishment ( ).
Hmmmph ! Where's ethical calculus when you need it ?
Provost Harrison posted 06-24-99 01:20 PM ET
There is nothing wrong with the cloning. it is useful for the manufacture of cells for research. But, it has it's limitations. Because clones are generated from somatic cells, they lose their telomeres, they sort of act as a clock, as time goes along, they are lost. After a while when they are all lost, damage is caused to the chromosome and the cell is damaged/dies, hence why Dolly the sheep is aging so fast. Same does not apply to identical twins, as telomeres are regenerated in gametogenesis, and both derive from the same cell. This limits the applications of cloning (for the time being at least). I'm with Sheng-ji Yang on this one!
JohnIII posted 06-24-99 01:28 PM ET
It's almost as bad as the "We don't want frogs over 'ere!" nationalists on 5 Live.
John III
dilbert posted 06-24-99 01:39 PM ET
I basically agree with human cloning. But I have my doubts:
- There are already too many people on this planet, we don't need more.
- If the clones are mentally unstable, what next? You can't just kill them as chickens in slaughterhouses?

Provost Harrison posted 06-24-99 01:57 PM ET
Very useful in the sense of 'spare parts' and research. And these applications cannot be ignored, despite the concern. The research must continue. A 'clump of cells' and 'a person' is a very difficult distinction to make. The nervous system/brain, in my opinion makes the person. therefore in my book, it would be fine to experiment on humans without a developed brain, eg, embryos. Despite what people say about having seen abortions on the ultrasound, a bacterium would do the same thing. It is an instinct possessed by the lowest organism. It will happen. You just have to draw a line, and that is quite arbitrary.
OhWell posted 06-24-99 02:02 PM ET
I remember seeing that the cloned sheep (Dolly?) was aging at an abnormally high rate. Is that right?
Hugo Rune posted 06-24-99 04:17 PM ET
Not as much aging at an unnormal rate as being born a four-year old (the age of her "mother"). I'm convinced this is just a technical problem and will be solved over time. Still, it raises an interesting point about taking necessary precautions...
Provost Harrison posted 06-24-99 06:24 PM ET
Yes, it is a technological problem, and one that can probably be fixed by expressing an enzyme in the cell called telomerase, which adds telomeres to the end of chromosomes. You see, this enzyme is only active and synthesised during gametogenesis. These are lost and not replaced in mitosis (normal cell division), and are thought to result in ageing (ends lost, chromosomes destroyed, cell dies) and are, indeed, implicated in the ageing process. So rather than these being a problem, it could open up a new avenue of research into ageing as well!
In one way, this problem gives us a lot of knowledge.
M_ashwell posted 06-24-99 07:18 PM ET
i see nothing wrong with human cloning
take this example...
a man clones hitler
locks his body in a lab for 20 odd years and releases him into the german government.
what makes u think he would try to invade the world the personallaty contained in this person would be entirely differene than that of the real hitler
hell identical twins their genitic information may be identical but how many twins act just like each other ... NONE
and they shared the same childhood they are individuals not a collective of two people
human cloning and the H G P should continue as in our DNA there is the key to the future of humanity are we really that scared to turn the key???
Martyn ashwell
Genetics student (ish)
"all technology is neutral its how u use it that makes it good or bad"
Provost Harrison posted 06-24-99 08:35 PM ET
Here here. Progress must continue, and not be halted by whining idiots who often know very little about it anyway!
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Author	Topic: Human Cloning
umbra1	posted 06-24-99 08:11 AM ET I've just been listening to the Radio1 news: Their piece on human cloning... "Today the government is expected to change the rules on cloning. If scientists are given the go-ahead, they'd be allowed to use human embryos for medical research." This was followed by half a dozen vox pops of people, with quotes of "Disgusting !", "We're unique, what do you want clones for ?", etc. Radio1 are currently doing a poll on what the public think of human cloning here . Personally I want to know why people think that human genetic material is sacred or taboo ? Aren't you denying yourself a useful tool ?
GaryD	posted 06-24-99 08:16 AM ET Knew it had to be a UK individual on reading that I think it's all down to how far you go before you decide you're messing about with another human being as opposed to a lot of cells. Line drawing is notoriously difficult. I like to see discussions on this subject as I have yet to be convinced that cloning per se is bad, but some of the possibilities I've come across resulting from the technique are much more dodgy. By the way, if clones are not unique, does that mean identical twins aren't either ? Arrhhh abomination ! Burn the twins !
GaryD	posted 06-24-99 08:21 AM ET From news.bbc.co.uk UK keeps human cloning ban The UK Government puts off a controversial decision on human cloning because of public concern, saying more medical research is needed into the issue. ALSO: Government response to human cloning Cloning may lead to 'medical revolution' The emerging cell technologies
Dreadnought	posted 06-24-99 08:25 AM ET I always shake my head in digust whenever I hear about people speaking against cloning. What I would like to know is this, why are people so against cloning? I guess people are just easily swayed by public opinion. Heaven forbid we should have another Albert Einstien........
umbra1	posted 06-24-99 11:09 AM ET I think cloning is eventually going to be on of the biggest industries on Earth, once the fear of the unknown has been overcome. Hopefully the technology will be available in the next 10 to 20 years, because I don't think my heart, liver, kidneys and lungs are going to take much more punishment ( ). Hmmmph ! Where's ethical calculus when you need it ?
Provost Harrison	posted 06-24-99 01:20 PM ET There is nothing wrong with the cloning. it is useful for the manufacture of cells for research. But, it has it's limitations. Because clones are generated from somatic cells, they lose their telomeres, they sort of act as a clock, as time goes along, they are lost. After a while when they are all lost, damage is caused to the chromosome and the cell is damaged/dies, hence why Dolly the sheep is aging so fast. Same does not apply to identical twins, as telomeres are regenerated in gametogenesis, and both derive from the same cell. This limits the applications of cloning (for the time being at least). I'm with Sheng-ji Yang on this one!
JohnIII	posted 06-24-99 01:28 PM ET It's almost as bad as the "We don't want frogs over 'ere!" nationalists on 5 Live. John III
dilbert	posted 06-24-99 01:39 PM ET I basically agree with human cloning. But I have my doubts: - There are already too many people on this planet, we don't need more. - If the clones are mentally unstable, what next? You can't just kill them as chickens in slaughterhouses?
Provost Harrison	posted 06-24-99 01:57 PM ET Very useful in the sense of 'spare parts' and research. And these applications cannot be ignored, despite the concern. The research must continue. A 'clump of cells' and 'a person' is a very difficult distinction to make. The nervous system/brain, in my opinion makes the person. therefore in my book, it would be fine to experiment on humans without a developed brain, eg, embryos. Despite what people say about having seen abortions on the ultrasound, a bacterium would do the same thing. It is an instinct possessed by the lowest organism. It will happen. You just have to draw a line, and that is quite arbitrary.
OhWell	posted 06-24-99 02:02 PM ET I remember seeing that the cloned sheep (Dolly?) was aging at an abnormally high rate. Is that right?
Hugo Rune	posted 06-24-99 04:17 PM ET Not as much aging at an unnormal rate as being born a four-year old (the age of her "mother"). I'm convinced this is just a technical problem and will be solved over time. Still, it raises an interesting point about taking necessary precautions...
Provost Harrison	posted 06-24-99 06:24 PM ET Yes, it is a technological problem, and one that can probably be fixed by expressing an enzyme in the cell called telomerase, which adds telomeres to the end of chromosomes. You see, this enzyme is only active and synthesised during gametogenesis. These are lost and not replaced in mitosis (normal cell division), and are thought to result in ageing (ends lost, chromosomes destroyed, cell dies) and are, indeed, implicated in the ageing process. So rather than these being a problem, it could open up a new avenue of research into ageing as well! In one way, this problem gives us a lot of knowledge.
M_ashwell	posted 06-24-99 07:18 PM ET i see nothing wrong with human cloning take this example... a man clones hitler locks his body in a lab for 20 odd years and releases him into the german government. what makes u think he would try to invade the world the personallaty contained in this person would be entirely differene than that of the real hitler hell identical twins their genitic information may be identical but how many twins act just like each other ... NONE and they shared the same childhood they are individuals not a collective of two people human cloning and the H G P should continue as in our DNA there is the key to the future of humanity are we really that scared to turn the key??? Martyn ashwell Genetics student (ish) "all technology is neutral its how u use it that makes it good or bad"
Provost Harrison	posted 06-24-99 08:35 PM ET Here here. Progress must continue, and not be halted by whining idiots who often know very little about it anyway!