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Alpha Centauri Forums
Non-SMAC related Scientology |
Author | Topic: Scientology |
Philip McCauley |
posted 06-13-99 11:04 PM ET
I've heard the name tossed about in various places, but I don't know who these people are or what they are about. Could someone explain? |
SnowFire |
posted 06-13-99 11:45 PM ET
They are a cult started by Elron Hubbard, bad science fiction writer. Unfortunately for the world, Hubbard starting believing his own press releases and started thinking his fiction was real. According to Hubbard, the source of all our problems are "thetans," who are these little mini-souls that attach themselves to us and give us pains. Where did they come from? Well, you see, there was this galactic confederation of 80 planets ruled by cruel dictator Xenu. To solve overpopulation problems (there were 15 billion people per planet) he shipped all the excess people to Earth in modified engineless B-17 capable of spaceflight to Earth, where he strapped them to volcanoes and performed various forms of torture on them, which really pissed them off. Then us humans evolved, and the thetans attached themselves to us. We evolved from clams, you see- and the proof of this is that you tell a person on a beach to imagine a clam opening and closing it's shell. This will bring back primordial memories, and will cause profuse jaw pain from them (it's true too! I wasn't even on a beach, and my jaw really hurt from laughing when I saw this!). And oh yes, one of the stages of evolution was the famous Piltdown man. This was written in the 50's, before the Piltdown man was proved a hoax, but hey, Hubbard didn't know that, and that's gospel now for Scientologists. In any case, you get rid of your problems by "auditing," in which you talk to a high muckitie-muck Scientologist and tell him all your deepest secrets, and he uses an "E-meter," a crude lie detector, to determine if you're lying. The E-meter runs off blood pressure, if I recall correctly, and while sometimes that will detect if someone's lying, it might also detect when the person has noticed a cold draft in the room. And since Scientology knows all your secrets, you are easily blackmailed if you try and leave the cult. In any case, there are various "courses," each of which gets you cleaner and cleaner of thetans until you are "clean," after which the E-meter should not register anything and all the thetans are gone from your system. These courses cost insane amounts of money to take, making the members go broke for the church and making the Church obscene amounts of money which it uses to sue anyone that tries to expose their operation (more on that later). Unfortunately, free speech allows these documents taken by cult members who escaped to be posted on the Internet, where anyone can get them for free instead of having to pay $14,000 (just for one set). So, Scientology claims that these silly documents which explain more about thetans are "trade secrets," meaning they can't be posted online. They also ruthlessly attack those that oppose them, both by suing them and by filing many false reports and complaints against them. Sometime in the 70's the Scientologsits got it into their head that instead of a silly philosophy group, they were a religion, and changed their beliefs accordingly. They then sued the IRS many, many times until sometime in the 90's when the IRS finally relented. I might mention right now that for God knows why, the Scientologists have infiltrated Hollywood pretty well, and Clinton, who got lots of money from there, might have had something to do with that. Germany has actually banned them, seeing them as about as low as the Nazis, and Greece and France have taken commendable measures surpressing them. But in any case, their terroristic tactics continue. They regularly complain about any website that tells the truth about them and get them taken off by their ISP's: all the sites I had bookmarked are gone now (clambake.com was good, since the Scientologists are called "Clams" in reference to their evolutionary background by those that oppose them. It's moved to xenu.net now. Another good site I actually found by looking at Ex Mudder's profile on the SMAC forums; I looked at it, and got my first glimpses of information. That's gone now too, alas; a shame. But thanks to the SMAC forums for giving me this link.). alt.religion.scientology, the newsgroup for this, is spam-bombed reguarly by the Clams- get a good newsreader if you want to read it without a million fake messages designed to slow the group down. Or else post "Can someone give me the FAQ?" Which reminds me, more craziness from the clams: They reguraly buy Hubbard's books to keep the high on the best-seller lists and on all-time books sold, and have a cycle going with that. Here's some sites I did find, didn't look too much at them: http://www.xs4all.nl/~bogie/demo/demo01.html In any case, without further ado, here's an article that appeared in Time in 1991. They were sued mercilessly for years afterwards, alleging libel, badness, etc. The Los Angeles Times did an expose awhile ago, and not only were they sued up the creek, but the Clams plastered comments out of contest from the articles on benches to make it look like the Times supported Scientology. |
SnowFire |
posted 06-13-99 11:47 PM ET
Time Magazine May 6, 1991 page 50. Special Report (cover story) Copyright � 1991 Time Magazine |
SnowFire |
posted 06-13-99 11:48 PM ET
Sometimes even the church's biggest zealots can use a little protection. Screen star Travolta, 37, has long served as an unofficial Scientology spokesman, even though he told a magazine in 1983 that he was opposed to the church's management. High-level defectors claim that Travolta has long feared that if he defected, details of his sexual life would be made public. "He felt pretty intimidated about this getting out and told me so," recalls William Franks, the church's former chairman of the board. "There were no outright threats made, but it was implicit. If you leave, they immediately start digging up everything." Franks was driven out in 1981 after attempting to reform the church. The church's former head of security, Richard Aznaran, recalls Scientology ringleader Miscavige repeatedly joking to staffers about Travolta's allegedly promiscuous homosexual behavior. At this point any threat to expose Travolta seems superfluous: last May a male porn star collected $100,000 from a tabloid for an account of his alleged two-year liaison with the celebrity. Travolta refuses to comment, and in December his lawyer dismissed questions about the subject as "bizarre." Two weeks later, Travolta announced that he was getting married to actress Kelly Preston, a fellow Scientologist. Shortly after Hubbard's death the church retained Trout & Ries, a respected, Connecticut-based firm of marketing consultants, to help boost its public image. "We were brutally honest," says Jack Trout. "We advised them to clean up their act, stop with the controversy and even to stop being a church. They didn't want to hear that." Instead, Scientology hired one of the country's largest p.r. outfits, Hill and Knowlton, whose executives refuse to discuss the lucrative relationship. "Hill and Knowlton must feel that these guys are not totally off the wall," says Trout. "Unless it's just for the money." One of Scientology's main strategies is to keep advancing the tired argument that the church is being "persecuted" by antireligionists. It is supported in that position by the American Civil Liberties Union and the National Council of Churches. But in the end, money is what Scientology is all about. As long as the organization's opponents and victims are successfully squelched, Scientology's managers and lawyers will keep pocketing millions of dollars by helping it achieve its ends.
[Sidebar; page 54] One source of funds for the Los Angeles-based church is the notorious, self-regulated stock exchange in Vancouver, British Columbia, often called the scam capital of the world. The exchange's 2,300 penny-stock listings account for $4 billion in annual trading. Local journalists and insiders claim the vast majority range from total washouts to outright frauds. Two Scientologists who operate there are Kenneth Gerbino and Michael Baybak, 20-year church veterans from Beverly Hills who are major donors to the cult. Gerbino, 45, is a money manager, marketmaker and publisher of a national financial newsletter. He has boasted in Scientology journals that he owes all his stock-picking success to L. Ron Hubbard. That's not saying much: Gerbino's newsletter picks since 1985 have cumulatively returned 24%, while the Dow Jones industrial average has more than doubled. Nevertheless Gerbino's short-term gains can be stupendous. A survey last October found Gerbino to be the only manager who made money in the third quarter of 1990, thanks to gold and other resource stocks. For the first quarter of 1991, Gerbino was dead last. Baybak, 49, who runs a public relations company staffed with Scientologists, apparently has no ethics problem with engineering a hostile takeover of a firm he is hired to promote. Neither man agreed to be interviewed for this story, yet both threatened legal action through attorneys. "What these guys do is take over companies, hype the stock, sell their shares, and then there's nothing left," says John Campbell, a former securities lawyer who was a director of mining company Athena Gold until Baybak and Gerbino took it over. The pattern has become familiar. The pair promoted a mining venture called Skylark Resources, whose stock traded at nearly $4 a share in 1987. The outfit soon crashed, and the stock is around 2 cents. NETI Technologies, a software company, was trumpeted in the press as "the next Xerox" and in 1984 rose to a market value of $120 million with Baybak's help. The company, which later collapsed, was delisted two months ago by the Vancouver exchange. Baybak appeared in 1989 at the helm of Wall Street Ventures, a start-up that announced it owned 35 tons of rare Middle Eastern postage stamps -- worth $100 million -- and was buying the world's largest collection of southern Arabian stamps (worth $350 million). Steven C. Rockefeller Jr. of the oil family and former hockey star Denis Potvin joined the company in top posts, but both say they quit when they realized the stamps were virtually worthless. "The stamps were created by sand-dune nations to exploit collectors," says Michael Laurence, editor of Linn's Stamp News, America's largest stamp journal. After the stock topped $6, it began a steady descent, with Baybak unloading his shares along the way. Today it trades at 18 cents. Athena Gold, the current object of Baybak's and Gerbino's attentions, was founded by entrepreneur William Jordan. He turned to an established Vancouver broker in 1987 to help finance the company, a 4,500-acre mining property near Reno. The broker promised to raise more than $3 million and soon brought Baybak and Gerbino into the deal. Jordan never got most of the money, but the cult members ended up with a good deal of cheap stock and options. Next they elected directors who were friendly to them and set in motion a series of complex maneuvers to block Jordan from voting stock he controlled and to run him out of the company. "I've been an honest policeman all my life and I've seen the worst kinds of crimes, and this ranks high," says former Athena shareholder Thomas Clark, a 20-year veteran of Reno's police force who has teamed up with Jordan to try to get the gold mine back. "They stole this man's property." With Baybak as chairman, the two Scientologists and their staffs are promoting Athena, not always accurately. A letter to shareholders with the 1990 annual report claims Placer Dome, one of America's largest gold-mining firms, has committed at least $25.5 million to develop the mine. That's news to Placer Dome. "There is no pre-commitment," says Placer executive Cole McFarland. "We're not going to spend that money unless survey results justify the expenditure." Baybak's firm represented Western Resource Technologies, a Houston oil-and-gas company, but got the boot in October. Laughs Steven McGuire, president of Western Resource: "His is a p.r. firm in need of a p.r. firm." But McGuire cannot laugh too freely. Baybak and other Scientologists, including the estate of L. Ron Hubbard, still control huge blocks of his company's stock. [ Caption: ATHENA GOLD'S WILLIAM JORDAN. Cult members got cheap stock, then ran him out of the company ]
Pushing Beyond the U.S.: Scientology makes its presence felt in Europe and Canada By Richard Behar In the 1960s and '70s, L. Ron Hubbard used to periodically fill a converted ferry ship with adoring acolytes and sail off to spread the word. One by one, countries -- Britain, Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Venezuela -- closed their ports, usually because of a public outcry. At one point, a court in Australia revoked the church's status as a religion; at another, a French court convicted Hubbard of fraud in absentia. Today Hubbard's minions continue to wreak global havoc, costing governments considerable effort and money to try to stop them. In Italy a two-year trial of 76 Scientologists, among them the former leader of the church's Italian operations, is nearing completion in Milan. Two weeks ago, prosecutor Pietro Forno requested jail terms for all the defendants who are accused of extortion, cheating "mentally incapacitated" people and evading as much as $50 million in taxes. "All of the trial's victims went to Scientology in search of a cure or a better life," said Forno, "But the Scientologists were amateur psychiatrists who practiced psychological terrorism". For some victims, he added, "the intervention of the Scientologists was devastating." The Milan case was triggered by parents complaining to officials that Scientology had a financial stranglehold on their children, who had joined the church or entered Narconon, its drug rehabilitation unit. In 1986 Treasury and paramilitary police conducted raids in 20 cities across Italy shutting down 27 Scientology centers and seizing 100,000 documents. To defend itself in the trial, the cult has retained some of Italy's most famous lawyers. In Canada, Scientology is using a legal team that includes Clayton Ruby, one of the country's foremost civil rights lawyers, to defend itself and nine of its members who are to stand trial in June in Toronto. The charges: stealing documents concerning Scientology from the Ministry of the Attorney General, the Canadian Mental Health Association, two police forces and other institutions. The case stems from a 1983 surprise raid of the church's Toronto headquarters by more than 100 policemen, who had arrived in three chartered buses; some 2 million pages of documents were seized over a two-day period. Ruby, whose legal maneuvers delayed the case for years, is trying to get it dismissed because of "unreasonable delay." Spain's Justice Ministry has twice denied Scientology status as a religion, but that has not slowed the church' s expansion. In 1989 the Ministry of Health issued a report calling the sect "totalitarian" and "pure and simple charlatanism." The year before, the authorities had raided 26 church centers, with the result that 11 Scientologists stand accused of falsification of records, coercion and capital flight. "The real god of this organization is money," said Madrid examining magistrate Jose Maria Vasquez Honrnbia, before referring the case to a higher court because it was too complex for his jurisdiction. Eugene Ingram, a private investigator working for Scientology claims he helped get Honrubia removed from the case for leaking nonpublic documents to the press. In France it took a death to spur the government into action: 16 Scientologists were indicted last year for fraud and "complicity in the practice of illegal medicine" following the suicide of an industrial designer in Lyon. In the victim's house investigators found medication allegeally provided to him by the church without doctor's prescription. Among those charged in the case is the president of Scientology's French operations and the head of the Paris-based Celebrity Centre, which caters to famous members. Outside the U.S., Scientology appears to be most active in Germany where the attorney general of the state of Bavaria has branded the cult "distinctly totalitarian" and aimed at "the economic exploitation of customers who are in bondage to it." In 1984 nearly 100 police raided the church in Munich. At the time, city officials were reportedly collaborating with U.S. tax inspectors and trying to prove that the cult was actually a profitmaking business. More recently, Hamburg state authorities moved to rescind Scientology's tax reduced status, while members of parliament are seeking criminal proceedings. In another domain, church linked management consulting firms have infiltrated small and middle sized companies throughout Germany, according to an expose published this month in the newsmagazine DER SPIEGEL; the consultants, who typically hide their ties to Scientology, indoctrinate employees by using Hubbard's methods. A German anticult organization estimates that Scientology has at least 60 fronts or splinter groups operating in the country. German politics appears as well to attract Hubbard's zealots. In March the Free Democrats, partners in Chancellor Helmut Kohl' s ruling coalition in Bonn, accused Scientology of trying to infiltrate their Hamburg branch. Meanwhile the main opposition party, the Social Democrats, has been warning its members in the formerly com- munist eastern part of the country against exploitation by the church. Even federal officials are being used by the church: one Scientology front group sent copies of a Hubbard written pamphlet on moral values to members of the Bundestag. The Office of Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher unwittingly endorsed the Scientologists' message: "Indeed, the world would be a more beautiful place if the principles formulated in the pamphlet, a life characterized by reason and responsibility, would find wider attention." [end of Internationl Edition-only section]
[Sidebar, page 57] Strange things seem to happen to people who write about Scientology. Journalist Paulette Cooper wrote a critical book on the cult in 1971. This led to a Scientology plot (called Operation Freak-Out) whose goal, according to church documents, was "to get P.C. incarcerated in a mental institution or jail." It almost worked: by impersonating Cooper, Scientologists got her indicted in 1973 for threatening to bomb the church. Cooper, who also endured 19 lawsuits by the church, was finally exonerated in 1977 after FBI raids on the church offices in Los Angeles and Washington uncovered documents from the bomb scheme. No Scientologists were ever tried in the matter. For the TIME story, at least 10 attorneys and six private detectives were unleashed by Scientology and its followers in an effort to threaten, harass and discredit me. Last Oct. 12, not long after I began this assignment, I planned to lunch with Eugene Ingram, the church's leading private eye and a former cop. Ingram, who was tossed off the Los Angeles police force In 1981 for alleged ties to prostitutes and drug dealers, had told me that he might be able to arrange a meeting with church boss David Miscavige. Just hours before the lunch, the church's "national trial counsel," Earle Cooley, called to inform me that I would be eating alone. Alone, perhaps, but not forgotten. By day's end, I later learned, a copy of my personal credit report -- with detailed information about my bank accounts, home mortgage, credit-card payments, home address and Social Security number -- had been illegally retrieved from a national credit bureau called Trans Union. The sham company that received it, "Educational Funding Services" of Los Angeles, gave as its address a mail drop a few blocks from Scientology's headquarters. The owner of the mail drop is a private eye named Fred Wolfson, who admits that an Ingram associate retained him to retrieve credit reports on several individuals. Wolfson says he was told that Scientology's attorneys "had judgments against these people and were trying to collect on them." He says now, "These are vicious people. These are vipers." Ingram, through a lawyer, denies any involvement in the scam. During the past five months, private investigators have been contacting acquaintances of mine, ranging from neighbors to a former colleague, to inquire about subjects such as my health (like my credit rating, it's excellent) and whether I've ever had trouble with the IRS (unlike Scientology, I haven't). One neighbor was greeted at dawn outside my Manhattan apartment building by two men who wanted to know whether I lived there. I finally called Cooley to demand that Scientology stop the nonsense. He promised to look into it. After that, however, an attorney subpoenaed me, while another falsely suggested that I might own shares in a company I was reporting about that had been taken over by Scientologists (he also threatened to contact the Securities and Exchange Commission). A close friend in Los Angeles received a disturbing telephone call from a Scientology staff member seeking data about me -- an indication that the cult may have illegally obtained my personal phone records. Two detectives contacted me, posing as a friend and a relative of a so-called cult victim, to elicit negative statements from me about Scientology. Some of my conversations with them were taped, transcribed and presented by the church in affidavits to TIME's lawyers as "proof" of my bias against Scientology. Among the comments I made to one of the detectives, who represented himself as "Harry Baxter," a friend of the victim's family, was that "the church trains people to lie." Baxter and his colleagues are hardly in a position to dispute that observation. His real name is Barry Silvers, and he is a former investigator for the Justice Department's Organized Crime Strike Force. (RB) |
jig |
posted 06-14-99 07:16 AM ET
Whoa! And I thought scientology was just another cult. jig |
Alphaman |
posted 06-14-99 09:13 AM ET
I almost got sucked into working for these people once. But I decided not to. Not for religious reasons, but because of their pay system. You don't get paid a fixed wage, but rather get paid based on the net income of the chapter where you work. ie. They told me that on a good week you could get $1000 for a few evenings work, or $5 for busting your hump the whole week. I thought this was total crap so I left. However they didn't really get the message and kept pestering me to go to work. Bunch of weirdos if you ask me. |
Ambro2000 |
posted 06-14-99 09:42 AM ET
Visit this site: What is $ientology? Very interesting and amusing infomation about the Cult.. Incase you didn't know. Everyone who critizise the Cult is a criminal! Yep that's is true(according to their lawbooks that is)!! We are all childmolesters, serialkillers, dangerous freaks etc etc... Here is an interseting e-mail debate between the person who runs Operation Clambake: called You are a fool! Check it out! It's rather long but you get a good insite about the Culs mentality..
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Ambro2000 |
posted 06-14-99 11:29 AM ET
Do this personality test you have to do if you want to sign up with the Church of $ientology Ambro2000 |
Provost Harrison |
posted 06-14-99 11:52 AM ET
Can someone give me a short, concise, explanation of what Scientologists are? I'm am usually the oyster behind all pearls of wisdom, I know but just tell us quick. Are they another bunch of nutty religious freaks? They sounds dangerous from what I can tell. |
Ambro2000 |
posted 06-15-99 06:49 AM ET
Click on my link above called: What is $ientology?
Ambro2000 |
Philip McCauley |
posted 06-15-99 04:30 PM ET
Wow! I'm glad I asked. These people are pretty frightening. How could anyone be so stupid as to get involved with such a moronic cult? Unless you want to fleece other people. I'd rather be a televangelist, it's much more honest. |
JohnIII |
posted 06-15-99 04:36 PM ET
LOL Just wondering, why "Sci"? John III |
Dreadnought |
posted 06-15-99 05:11 PM ET
From "Weekend Update with Norm MacDonald".. Actor John Travolta today has acused the German government of religiously persecuting pracitioners of Scienitology. When told of these acusations the German government replied, "Hey, we're the Germans! When we're religiously persecuting you, youll know about it." Just thought that was kind of funny. |
Valtyr |
posted 06-15-99 05:46 PM ET
Wow! Those Scientologists are even worse than the Sci-fi-entologists on this forum . Valtyr |
SnowFire |
posted 06-15-99 06:22 PM ET
"Just wondering, why "Sci"?" Because it wants to sound scientific and rational. Same with Christian science and Social Darwinism. |
SnowFire |
posted 06-16-99 10:48 AM ET
Hmm... I've been doing some more research, and found I forgot half the stuff in my original summary. You see, the thetans, who were all omnipotent, were bored one day and just called the universe into being. Then there's the story of Xenu (I got that part right), but then he dropped H-bombs on the thetans strapped to volcanoes. Then he used electronic fly paper to cath them all again, and then he packed them all in cinemas and showed them bad movies for 6 days about God, the Devil, Jesus, and the rest of the world's religions. The thetans climbed out believing in God, and then the thetans did various bad things like climb into bodies and then fall asleep, or get hooked on drugs (how a spirit takes drugs is beyond me, but hey...). |
Philip McCauley |
posted 06-16-99 07:51 PM ET
No guys, it's 'sci' for 'SCIence fiction'. |
Fjorxc the Maniac |
posted 06-16-99 08:10 PM ET
People actually BELIEVE this bulldink? Kesus Dhrist. There goes the last lingering thread of my faith that individual humans maintain some shreds of intelligence. |
Frodo83 |
posted 06-16-99 08:13 PM ET
This Hubbard fella reminds me of Kilgore Trout. |
absimiliard |
posted 06-17-99 09:57 AM ET
Bah, Kilgore Trout is/was a MUCH better author than L. Ron Hubbard. (And that is even counting the fact that Kilgore is a fictional author. Kudos to Philip Jose Farmer for writing a book under his name though. I hear he gave the creator of Kilgore Trout fits laughing.) -absimiliard |
HARDMAN |
posted 06-17-99 09:58 AM ET
i am the hardman you will bow to me |
HARDMAN |
posted 06-17-99 09:58 AM ET
i am the hardman you will bow to me |
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