Do you think Religion is inherently Good or Bad?

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Author Topic:   Do you think Religion is inherently Good or Bad?

Famous Eccles posted 06-12-99 11:30 AM ET
Religion has been used as a tool of oppression. Religion has foundations in fundamental human rights, such as the sanctity of human life.
What do you think?
Provost Harrison posted 06-12-99 12:10 PM ET
You may not like my politics, but religion has been a tool utilised by feudalism, and now capitalism (although it's role is not quite so powerful now).
Religion keeps people from questioning society, by promising them 'eternal rewards' if they tow the line. Basically, a subtle means of subduing people. People should question what goes on around them. Are we not intelligent organisms who not only adapt to our surroundings, but can also change them? Always question the current status quo and look to improvement.
Karl Marx said, 'Religion is the opium of the people'. I construe this to mean a means of satisfying the peoples demands without directly addressing the needs; it keeps them quiet, much as opium would.

Come the revolution, comrades!
Famous Eccles posted 06-12-99 12:40 PM ET
I agree that as time passed religion became ever more a tool of the state, its decent values subverted. Dialectic materialism is the only way forward.
The Workers control the means of production
In the struggle with Urban Proleteriat
the middle classes will join or die!
Yes I am a red.
Religion is the Opium of the Masses, not the people, learn your Marx.
walruskkkch posted 06-12-99 01:39 PM ET
Let see communism vs. religion where to start? Given that the Soviet Union is our best example of the success of the application of the priciples of communism let's start there shall we?
Relgion is a means of preventing people from questioning society. Well In the old SU you sure could question how society was organized and run couldn't you? Of course you would be doing it from Siberia, if you were lucky, more likely from Heaven(but of course you weren't really allowed to believe in an afterlife, were you?)
Religion used to subjugate the people. No real argument there, anything idea could be used to subjugate, like say, "We're creating the new 'socialist man' and your desire to better your life is against our great principles of total equality.(By the way the equality of despair ain't that great.)
Communism has a alot of principles concerning equality and social justice, just like religion. In practice Religion at least comes closer to fulfilling the promises it makes than communism could ever hope to. The great success of the Soviet Union proves this.
When are you lefties gonna admit it, you lost and it's your philosophy that ended up on the "dust heap of history". Capitalism won because in the end it was able to deliver the most to the greatest number.
By the way, if religion is the "opiate of the masses" than communism was the "bullet to the brain". The only freedom in a communist country is the freedom of nothing left to lose.
It's so good to vent on failed philosophy in the morning, gets the blood going. By the way how long do you think it would have taken the Communists in the SU to invent the internet, and how quickly would they have banned it's use?
A middle class Capitalist, and durned proud of it!
I remain, as always,
Your faithful and obedient servant
Provost Harrison posted 06-12-99 01:51 PM ET
walruskchhhhhh,walruskchhhhhh,walruskchhhhhh, when will you understand. Look at my meanderings on the 'unblemished socialism page', please. We have not seen 'socialism' and it certainly ain't confined to the 'dustheap of history' like you may have been taught. Just a little battered. Middle class, eh? Hope to see you hanging from a lamp-post some day
Provost Harrison posted 06-12-99 01:52 PM ET
ps, sorry Famous Eccles, I never was much good for remembering quotes. I shall go and repent my sins (oops, I'm not religious)
Provost Harrison posted 06-12-99 01:52 PM ET
PS, Famous Eccles, could I have your invaluable backup on the 'Unblemished Socialism Page' at some point? It would be v. much appreciated? Workers of all countries unite!
walruskkkch posted 06-12-99 02:00 PM ET
Saw the unblemished socialist page, doesn't change MHO. Sure socialism is still with us, even the human body supports a host of parasites on it's successful design. The only socialism that can exist today is one that permits the greatest amounts of capitalist activity. That's way China is doing better than the Old SU. BUT!, neither copuld exist without capitalism. Socialism does not create, it can only redistribute, and when it exhausts the husk of the society it infects it dies. It has to steal from the productive societies to maintain itself. I suggest right back at you, read the threads on Reagan(Hee, Hee don't pop a blood vessel there ).
Wishing you a long life enjoying the fruits of YOUR OWN labor, I remain, as always,
Your faithful and obedient servant
Sheng Ji Yang posted 06-12-99 02:31 PM ET
I think that the morality of religion is good, but brainwashing is not the way to impose morality.
Q Cubed posted 06-12-99 02:35 PM ET
walruskkkch - you sound almost like Ayn Rand.
Provost Harrison posted 06-12-99 02:43 PM ET
But that is the point walruskkkch, it does create. And very well.
Nathan Weismuller posted 06-12-99 03:44 PM ET
Greetings.
Provost Harrison- any evidence *whatsoever* that "socialism does create, and very well"?
Nathan Weismuller
walruskkkch posted 06-13-99 12:41 AM ET
Well, the site seems to finally be back up. I huffed and puffed but couldn't get into the non-smac forum, probably some communist plot! Provost, which creates? You got to be more specific man if we're gonna have an argument here! As far as sounding like Ayn Rand, Took the libertarian test on one of the other threads and scored a perfect 100%, so I guess I am, a libertarian that is, not Ayn Rand.
It's easy to hate religion, there's a lot of history there that can't be ignored. But, without some kind of morality based system, and you can't disassociate religion from most of the basic principles which are important to us today, you open the door to a whole host tragedies. Stalin and Mao didn't need religion to kill millions.
Well getting late, before I leave I would recommend Austin Powers to any looking for a fun film. Bottom level humour, should make millions.
As always, I remain
Your faithful and obedient servant
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Author	Topic: Do you think Religion is inherently Good or Bad?
Famous Eccles	posted 06-12-99 11:30 AM ET Religion has been used as a tool of oppression. Religion has foundations in fundamental human rights, such as the sanctity of human life. What do you think?
Provost Harrison	posted 06-12-99 12:10 PM ET You may not like my politics, but religion has been a tool utilised by feudalism, and now capitalism (although it's role is not quite so powerful now). Religion keeps people from questioning society, by promising them 'eternal rewards' if they tow the line. Basically, a subtle means of subduing people. People should question what goes on around them. Are we not intelligent organisms who not only adapt to our surroundings, but can also change them? Always question the current status quo and look to improvement. Karl Marx said, 'Religion is the opium of the people'. I construe this to mean a means of satisfying the peoples demands without directly addressing the needs; it keeps them quiet, much as opium would. Come the revolution, comrades!
Famous Eccles	posted 06-12-99 12:40 PM ET I agree that as time passed religion became ever more a tool of the state, its decent values subverted. Dialectic materialism is the only way forward. The Workers control the means of production In the struggle with Urban Proleteriat the middle classes will join or die! Yes I am a red. Religion is the Opium of the Masses, not the people, learn your Marx.
walruskkkch	posted 06-12-99 01:39 PM ET Let see communism vs. religion where to start? Given that the Soviet Union is our best example of the success of the application of the priciples of communism let's start there shall we? Relgion is a means of preventing people from questioning society. Well In the old SU you sure could question how society was organized and run couldn't you? Of course you would be doing it from Siberia, if you were lucky, more likely from Heaven(but of course you weren't really allowed to believe in an afterlife, were you?) Religion used to subjugate the people. No real argument there, anything idea could be used to subjugate, like say, "We're creating the new 'socialist man' and your desire to better your life is against our great principles of total equality.(By the way the equality of despair ain't that great.) Communism has a alot of principles concerning equality and social justice, just like religion. In practice Religion at least comes closer to fulfilling the promises it makes than communism could ever hope to. The great success of the Soviet Union proves this. When are you lefties gonna admit it, you lost and it's your philosophy that ended up on the "dust heap of history". Capitalism won because in the end it was able to deliver the most to the greatest number. By the way, if religion is the "opiate of the masses" than communism was the "bullet to the brain". The only freedom in a communist country is the freedom of nothing left to lose. It's so good to vent on failed philosophy in the morning, gets the blood going. By the way how long do you think it would have taken the Communists in the SU to invent the internet, and how quickly would they have banned it's use? A middle class Capitalist, and durned proud of it! I remain, as always, Your faithful and obedient servant
Provost Harrison	posted 06-12-99 01:51 PM ET walruskchhhhhh,walruskchhhhhh,walruskchhhhhh, when will you understand. Look at my meanderings on the 'unblemished socialism page', please. We have not seen 'socialism' and it certainly ain't confined to the 'dustheap of history' like you may have been taught. Just a little battered. Middle class, eh? Hope to see you hanging from a lamp-post some day
Provost Harrison	posted 06-12-99 01:52 PM ET ps, sorry Famous Eccles, I never was much good for remembering quotes. I shall go and repent my sins (oops, I'm not religious)
Provost Harrison	posted 06-12-99 01:52 PM ET PS, Famous Eccles, could I have your invaluable backup on the 'Unblemished Socialism Page' at some point? It would be v. much appreciated? Workers of all countries unite!
walruskkkch	posted 06-12-99 02:00 PM ET Saw the unblemished socialist page, doesn't change MHO. Sure socialism is still with us, even the human body supports a host of parasites on it's successful design. The only socialism that can exist today is one that permits the greatest amounts of capitalist activity. That's way China is doing better than the Old SU. BUT!, neither copuld exist without capitalism. Socialism does not create, it can only redistribute, and when it exhausts the husk of the society it infects it dies. It has to steal from the productive societies to maintain itself. I suggest right back at you, read the threads on Reagan(Hee, Hee don't pop a blood vessel there ). Wishing you a long life enjoying the fruits of YOUR OWN labor, I remain, as always, Your faithful and obedient servant
Sheng Ji Yang	posted 06-12-99 02:31 PM ET I think that the morality of religion is good, but brainwashing is not the way to impose morality.
Q Cubed	posted 06-12-99 02:35 PM ET walruskkkch - you sound almost like Ayn Rand.
Provost Harrison	posted 06-12-99 02:43 PM ET But that is the point walruskkkch, it does create. And very well.
Nathan Weismuller	posted 06-12-99 03:44 PM ET Greetings. Provost Harrison- any evidence whatsoever that "socialism does create, and very well"? Nathan Weismuller
walruskkkch	posted 06-13-99 12:41 AM ET Well, the site seems to finally be back up. I huffed and puffed but couldn't get into the non-smac forum, probably some communist plot! Provost, which creates? You got to be more specific man if we're gonna have an argument here! As far as sounding like Ayn Rand, Took the libertarian test on one of the other threads and scored a perfect 100%, so I guess I am, a libertarian that is, not Ayn Rand. It's easy to hate religion, there's a lot of history there that can't be ignored. But, without some kind of morality based system, and you can't disassociate religion from most of the basic principles which are important to us today, you open the door to a whole host tragedies. Stalin and Mao didn't need religion to kill millions. Well getting late, before I leave I would recommend Austin Powers to any looking for a fun film. Bottom level humour, should make millions. As always, I remain Your faithful and obedient servant