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Hugo Rune posted 06-04-99 02:18 PM ET
I'd have to say Gerard Ford. What did he do except fall in that staircase, and getting married to a woman who now runs the most influential Anti-Alcohol centres in the world? Take credit for "winning" the Vietnam War?
JohnIII posted 06-04-99 02:21 PM ET
It was, ummmmmm, you know, damn, I've forgotten
John III
Imran Siddiqui posted 06-04-99 02:22 PM ET
Van Buren?
Fillmore?
Pirce?
Hugo Rune posted 06-04-99 02:35 PM ET
Ford will join that Select Bunch in a few decades.
High Priest posted 06-04-99 03:30 PM ET
Naa, William Harrison. He was only in office about a month before he croaked.
High Priest posted 06-04-99 03:32 PM ET
And wait a minute! Ford was fairly memorable. He was here during the Bicentennial, and was Nixon's VP.
SnowFire posted 06-04-99 04:56 PM ET
Ford won't be remembered for what he did, he'll be remembered for being the first and only president never to be elected to the office.
I have to go with Imran. You've got your influential presidents who shaped the Republic from Washington-Jackson. Then there's your civil war & Reconstruction era, from Lincoln-McKinley. Even if the guys towards the end were some of the worst and most corrupt presidents the Republic has had, they're somewhat memorable. Then you have your progressives, Roosevelt-Wilson, more memorable people, your lassiez-faire return-to-the-1800's Republicans from Harding-Hoover remembered for their incompetence. Then you have your modern era presidents, Roosevelt-Clinton, remembered because they're contemporary and mostly influential.
You notice what gets skiped, the boring antebellum era, from Van Buren- Buchanan. As Imran points out, does anyone remember Harrison? Polk? Fillmore? Pierce? And the others usually only have one thing associated with them, like Tyler and Taylor and Tippacanoe, however that got famous.
I'm going to have to go with Fillmore as the least memorable, though. I truly remember nothing on him.
JohnIII posted 06-04-99 05:08 PM ET
I remember William Henry Harrison ("I died in 30 days!") from that song in the Simpsons.
John III
Rex Little posted 06-04-99 10:30 PM ET
A minor quibble: Harrison is pretty well remembered because he served the shortest amount of time, and because of the slogan "Tippecanoe and Tyler too." (Harrison was "Tippecanoe".) Otherwise, Snowfire's analysis is dead on.
Mcerion posted 06-05-99 01:21 AM ET
Calvin Coolidge
Hey_Hey_Hey_Yo posted 06-05-99 01:40 AM ET
Does Al Gore count?
HolyWarrior posted 06-05-99 02:00 AM ET
Nope, he'll never be President.
Ambro2000 posted 06-05-99 05:27 AM ET
Ronald "the clown" Reagan..
Ambro2000

Provost Harrison posted 06-05-99 01:12 PM ET
Rutherford B. Hayes? He might have been good for all I know.
Philip McCauley posted 06-05-99 02:52 PM ET
Uh oh, ambro...you just dissed the role model of Imran, if I remember the argument from the 'shoot regan' thread. This should be interesting.
Nancy who?
Spider posted 06-05-99 02:58 PM ET
Um, um, um...shoot, I can't remember his name.
JohnIII posted 06-05-99 03:07 PM ET
I already said that one.
John III
White_Cat posted 06-08-99 04:59 PM ET
Does anyone have the lyrics to that "Mediocre Presidents" song from The Simpsons?
SnowFire posted 06-08-99 10:31 PM ET
How about least memorable foreign leaders? Since we don't learn much about 'em in our lovely US schools (hey, we learn too little about the US as is), most of them we simply don't know the names too. Oh well, let's see how many British Prime Ministers we can remember... as well as how many mediocre ones we can as well.
Lord North- the guy in the Revolutionary War. He was so likeable and non-threatening, that the Founding Fathers couldn't pillory him- so they took aim at the King instead in the Declaration of Independence. He sat back and smiled most of the war.
Gladstone & Disraeli: Fast Forward a hundered years. These two guys, though mortal enemies, while alternating the position of PM seriously advanced Progressiveism in England.
David Lloyd-George: Imperialistic guy who "led" England during WWI. If Clemenceau was evil and Wilson Good, than Lloyd-George was neutral- he just wanted his new mandates from the League (ugh- nothing like setting the stage for Middle East Wars I-XXVII later), and he was fine with a strong, trading Germany.
Neville Chamberlain: Wimpy guy who didn't bother to read Mein Kampf (let's enslave the lesser races!) before going to Munich. "You were given a choice between dishonor and war. You chose dishonor, and will have war."
Winston Churchill: Um... He's that guy. I sorta forget him. Can someone help me out here?
Clement Atlee: Only famous because he succeeded Churchill in '45 and got to attend some postwar conferences. Churchill summed him up pretty well too, just like with Chamerblain: "Atlee is a modest man, with much to be modest about." Ouch!
A bunch of boring Labour Party candidates: They sat back and happily basked in prosperity in the 50's to the 70's.
Margaret Thatcher: Ronnie Reagan's cheerleader. After the Cold War was over, she happily threw all the credit to Reagan and SDI instead of to Gorbachev.
That creaky old Conservative who succeeded her: Boy, he was gone quick.
Tony Blair: The Clinton of Britain. Hey, that rhymes!
Ronbo posted 06-09-99 01:55 AM ET
How about James A. Garfield, who was the SECOND president to be assasinated, so nobody ever remembers him.
Snowfire's assessment is right on the money, IMNSHO. He pegged why nobody remembers that group of presidents from 1830-1860. They were a bit obscure.
4Horses posted 06-09-99 08:17 AM ET
I was going to say Taft because he was the first one that popped into my mind as being unrememberable, but I guess that makes him rememberable. So I'll concur with SnowFire's post.
Bishop posted 06-09-99 10:47 AM ET
Ronbo
And wasn�t he just 3 months old in office when he got whacked ?
Bishop
Bishop posted 06-09-99 10:49 AM ET
Hugo
Oh, is it THAT Betty Ford. It slipped me by completely.
Bishop
walruskkkch posted 06-09-99 12:02 PM ET
For least memorable foreign leader I nominate any Canadian Prime Minister who wasn't MacKensie, Trudot or Mulroney.
Your faithful and obedient servant
threeover posted 06-09-99 01:41 PM ET
Geremia Stoodwood.
You guys don't know him?
That is why he is the least memorable US president.
Borodino posted 06-09-99 03:24 PM ET
No contest.
Pierce -- did nothing at all.
Picker posted 06-09-99 03:25 PM ET
who?
Picker posted 06-09-99 03:28 PM ET
Most Memorable Canadian Prime Minister: Joe Clark for getting kicked out of office after a year even though he did nothing wrong.
Ronbo posted 06-09-99 08:18 PM ET
My nomination for most memorable Canadian PM (besides the ubiquitious Pierre Trudeau) would be Kim Campbell--the first female PM in Canadian PM, and the PM when the majority party suffered the most devestating meltdown I can ever recall in ANY country's history. The Progressive Conservative party almost vanished from the political scene in Canada, and is still nowhere near the power it was during the Mulroney years.
MikeH II posted 06-10-99 07:38 AM ET
SnowFire: That creaky old Conservative who succeeded her: Boy, he was gone quick.
Er yeah, he was only there for about 6 years. I presume you mean John Major anyway. He was a boring little man. Managed to do literally nothing in his 6 years in office.

SnowFire posted 06-10-99 12:49 PM ET
Anybody who can make 6 years seem "quick" is definitely unmemorable. Not to mention the fact I couldn't remember the name of John, um, what's his name, 15 seconds after reading it.
Spoe posted 06-10-99 04:30 PM ET
David Rice Atchison, without a doubt.
Was the 12th President of the United States.
He became president when James Polk's term ended at noon, Sunday March 4, 1849 and he left office when Zachary Taylor was sworn in on Monday March 5, 1849. You see, Taylor, being a religious man, refused to be sworn in on the Sabbath. Somebody had to be president so it fell to the President Pro-Tempore(under the law of the day; today the Vice President is the President Pro-Tempore) of the Senate to become the new President of the United States, if only for a day.
JohnIII posted 06-10-99 04:35 PM ET
Let's have a cheer for John Major, most forgettable of PMs...
John III
DanS posted 06-10-99 05:28 PM ET
I think Spoe's entry wins the blue ribbon, except that we don't really know if he was president.
Spoe posted 06-10-99 05:54 PM ET
Actually, even if he wasn't President for the full day(because it was between seesions of Congress), he certainly was for a few minutes, as he was sworn in as President Pro-Tempore a few minutes before Taylor on that Monday. So for those few minutes he was indeed President. All nice and legal(by the rule of succession of the time).
He also signed a few minor official papers that morning, which stood legally, so he has to be considered President.
He later became the de facto Vice President for a few years when the actual Vice President died early in his term. Since there were no provisions at the time to replace the Vice President, Atchison was next in line to the President.
Imran Siddiqui posted 06-10-99 07:37 PM ET
I wouldn't call Major, the Least Memorable. I still remember him. Of course, when you come after a giant (in world history) like Thatcher, who's going to remember you? After all, Bush won't be remembered because he followed Reagan (although, he might get some kudos for the Gulf War and his distinguished career).
Imran Siddiqui
walruskkkch posted 06-10-99 11:38 PM ET
Technically Atchison was but back then nobody's finger was on the nuclear trigger so who cared? It wasn't as if Taylor wasn't going to be sworn in. But you're right, he has to be the least memorable, he didn't even get a number!
Provost Harrison posted 06-11-99 12:39 PM ET
I think that, William Hague, current UK conservative leader, is, to be quite honest, a bit of a tit.
JohnIII posted 06-11-99 01:20 PM ET
"Cafe Hague- guaranteed to send you to sleep!"
Rory Bremner or one of the writers takes the credit for that
John III
Sheng Ji Yang posted 06-11-99 09:56 PM ET
Reagan is the bombity bomb bomb!
Provost Harrison posted 06-12-99 10:14 AM ET
Very good, John III, nothing like a bit of vague Hague.
Spoe posted 06-12-99 10:16 AM ET
"Reagan is the bombity bomb bomb!"
Yep, Grenada, Libya, Lebanon/Syria...
NotLikeTea posted 06-12-99 10:46 AM ET
**clears his throat and begins to sing**
"Oh, We are the mediocre presidents!
You won't find our faces on dollars and on cents!
There's Taylor, there's Tyler, there's Fillmore and there's Hayes,
There's William Henry Harrison. 'I died in thirty days!'
Yes we are the adequate, forgettable, occasionally regrettable
Caretaker presidents of the U! S! A!"
Thank you, and goodnight.
Rex Little posted 06-12-99 02:55 PM ET
Hey, Clinton's bombed more countries than Reagan (or any other president since WW2) did, and he's got a year and a half to pad the total.
SnowFire posted 06-13-99 04:41 PM ET
Except that Clinton bombed places to do silly things like stop genocide, while Reagean bombed for the hell of it, it almost seemed. 3 times as many Congressional Medals of Honor were given out over Granada than the number of soldiers who actually served there during the 4 or 5 hours of combat against some construction workers. Oh well, nothing beats Wounded Knee- that "battle" was actually a slaughter of unarmed women and children that handed out plenty of Congressional Medals.
walruskkkch posted 06-13-99 11:20 PM ET
The asprin factory in the Sudan? Get real, Clinton bombs to get the americans attention away from some scandal or another. He lets Saddam do what he wants until he needs to flex some muscle and lo and behold, Monica set to testify? Bomb Iraq! Reagan's bombibg wasn't gratutious, and they certainly were never done to divert attention from ones sexual misadventures.
As always, I remain,
Your faithful and obedient servant
Provost Harrison posted 06-14-99 12:08 PM ET
I don't think Reagan was capable of sexual misdemeanors! He may have done the same if he was. Look at Thatcher. Falklands war very conveniently restored confidence in her just before the 83 election.
Provost Harrison posted 06-14-99 12:09 PM ET
And the same with Major after the Gulf War.
David Floyd posted 06-17-99 09:55 AM ET
Bad US Presidents:
Lincoln
FDR
JFK
Clinton
Wilson
LBJ
Nixon
Good US Presidents:
Reagan
Andrew Jackson
Mostly George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Forgettable:
As people have said, basically anyone between 1830-1860, plus I would also think people like Garfield and Grover Cleveland.
SnowFire posted 06-17-99 12:45 PM ET
Hmm... interesting list DF. Let's see-
Lincoln- what drugs are you on? I see you're from Texas. Please don't tell me you're re-fighting the Civil War. And if you consider the sloppy mess that things degenerating to under Johnson, you can see why Lincoln was the only man for the job back then.
FDR- Yeah, I suppose you might disagree with him getting us out of the Depression the way he did, but you gotta hand it to him for trying to wake America out of its isolationist stupor and leading us through WWII. Surely you don't agree with the findings of the Nye Commision, now, do you?
JFK- Eh- despite his faults, he was an admirable leader, if he didn't get much done. And he was also the one who really jump-started the space program with his promise to get us on the moon by '69. Not to mention some great quotes, as well. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country?" That's exactly the opposite of what Reagan preached.
Clinton- Eh- I wouldn't say bad, just mediocre. He hasn't really done much of substance.
Wilson- You don't like Wilson? Come on! He set up the Federal Reserve and got us through WWI, and at least valiantly tried to change the imperialist currents in Europe and set up the League of Nations. Too bad the Republicans torpedoed him back home.
LBJ- A true liberal. I respect the man, at least. And give him credit for the tough times he was in.
Nixon- Glad you agree here.
And you like Reagen? The man who crushed the air traffic controllers and set our transport network back 10 years in other ways as well? Who's wife consulted an astrolger to determine what to do next? Who remembered Star Wars as part of a bad movie he played in in 1947 about a similar set up? Who was senile by '84? Nah. And don't even try and give him credit for the Cold War- that was 90% Gorbachev.
Spoe posted 06-17-99 07:47 PM ET
Andrew Jackson -- For telling the entire judicial branch of the government to go hang itself because he was going to move the Cherokee's regardless of what the courts said(Worcester v Georgia), thereby ignoring his charter to uphold the laws of the country?
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Author	Topic: Least Memorable US President
Hugo Rune	posted 06-04-99 02:18 PM ET I'd have to say Gerard Ford. What did he do except fall in that staircase, and getting married to a woman who now runs the most influential Anti-Alcohol centres in the world? Take credit for "winning" the Vietnam War?
JohnIII	posted 06-04-99 02:21 PM ET It was, ummmmmm, you know, damn, I've forgotten John III
Imran Siddiqui	posted 06-04-99 02:22 PM ET Van Buren? Fillmore? Pirce?
Hugo Rune	posted 06-04-99 02:35 PM ET Ford will join that Select Bunch in a few decades.
High Priest	posted 06-04-99 03:30 PM ET Naa, William Harrison. He was only in office about a month before he croaked.
High Priest	posted 06-04-99 03:32 PM ET And wait a minute! Ford was fairly memorable. He was here during the Bicentennial, and was Nixon's VP.
SnowFire	posted 06-04-99 04:56 PM ET Ford won't be remembered for what he did, he'll be remembered for being the first and only president never to be elected to the office. I have to go with Imran. You've got your influential presidents who shaped the Republic from Washington-Jackson. Then there's your civil war & Reconstruction era, from Lincoln-McKinley. Even if the guys towards the end were some of the worst and most corrupt presidents the Republic has had, they're somewhat memorable. Then you have your progressives, Roosevelt-Wilson, more memorable people, your lassiez-faire return-to-the-1800's Republicans from Harding-Hoover remembered for their incompetence. Then you have your modern era presidents, Roosevelt-Clinton, remembered because they're contemporary and mostly influential. You notice what gets skiped, the boring antebellum era, from Van Buren- Buchanan. As Imran points out, does anyone remember Harrison? Polk? Fillmore? Pierce? And the others usually only have one thing associated with them, like Tyler and Taylor and Tippacanoe, however that got famous. I'm going to have to go with Fillmore as the least memorable, though. I truly remember nothing on him.
JohnIII	posted 06-04-99 05:08 PM ET I remember William Henry Harrison ("I died in 30 days!") from that song in the Simpsons. John III
Rex Little	posted 06-04-99 10:30 PM ET A minor quibble: Harrison is pretty well remembered because he served the shortest amount of time, and because of the slogan "Tippecanoe and Tyler too." (Harrison was "Tippecanoe".) Otherwise, Snowfire's analysis is dead on.
Mcerion	posted 06-05-99 01:21 AM ET Calvin Coolidge
Hey_Hey_Hey_Yo	posted 06-05-99 01:40 AM ET Does Al Gore count?
HolyWarrior	posted 06-05-99 02:00 AM ET Nope, he'll never be President.
Ambro2000	posted 06-05-99 05:27 AM ET Ronald "the clown" Reagan.. Ambro2000
Provost Harrison	posted 06-05-99 01:12 PM ET Rutherford B. Hayes? He might have been good for all I know.
Philip McCauley	posted 06-05-99 02:52 PM ET Uh oh, ambro...you just dissed the role model of Imran, if I remember the argument from the 'shoot regan' thread. This should be interesting. Nancy who?
Spider	posted 06-05-99 02:58 PM ET Um, um, um...shoot, I can't remember his name.
JohnIII	posted 06-05-99 03:07 PM ET I already said that one. John III
White_Cat	posted 06-08-99 04:59 PM ET Does anyone have the lyrics to that "Mediocre Presidents" song from The Simpsons?
SnowFire	posted 06-08-99 10:31 PM ET How about least memorable foreign leaders? Since we don't learn much about 'em in our lovely US schools (hey, we learn too little about the US as is), most of them we simply don't know the names too. Oh well, let's see how many British Prime Ministers we can remember... as well as how many mediocre ones we can as well. Lord North- the guy in the Revolutionary War. He was so likeable and non-threatening, that the Founding Fathers couldn't pillory him- so they took aim at the King instead in the Declaration of Independence. He sat back and smiled most of the war. Gladstone & Disraeli: Fast Forward a hundered years. These two guys, though mortal enemies, while alternating the position of PM seriously advanced Progressiveism in England. David Lloyd-George: Imperialistic guy who "led" England during WWI. If Clemenceau was evil and Wilson Good, than Lloyd-George was neutral- he just wanted his new mandates from the League (ugh- nothing like setting the stage for Middle East Wars I-XXVII later), and he was fine with a strong, trading Germany. Neville Chamberlain: Wimpy guy who didn't bother to read Mein Kampf (let's enslave the lesser races!) before going to Munich. "You were given a choice between dishonor and war. You chose dishonor, and will have war." Winston Churchill: Um... He's that guy. I sorta forget him. Can someone help me out here? Clement Atlee: Only famous because he succeeded Churchill in '45 and got to attend some postwar conferences. Churchill summed him up pretty well too, just like with Chamerblain: "Atlee is a modest man, with much to be modest about." Ouch! A bunch of boring Labour Party candidates: They sat back and happily basked in prosperity in the 50's to the 70's. Margaret Thatcher: Ronnie Reagan's cheerleader. After the Cold War was over, she happily threw all the credit to Reagan and SDI instead of to Gorbachev. That creaky old Conservative who succeeded her: Boy, he was gone quick. Tony Blair: The Clinton of Britain. Hey, that rhymes!
Ronbo	posted 06-09-99 01:55 AM ET How about James A. Garfield, who was the SECOND president to be assasinated, so nobody ever remembers him. Snowfire's assessment is right on the money, IMNSHO. He pegged why nobody remembers that group of presidents from 1830-1860. They were a bit obscure.
4Horses	posted 06-09-99 08:17 AM ET I was going to say Taft because he was the first one that popped into my mind as being unrememberable, but I guess that makes him rememberable. So I'll concur with SnowFire's post.
Bishop	posted 06-09-99 10:47 AM ET Ronbo And wasn�t he just 3 months old in office when he got whacked ? Bishop
Bishop	posted 06-09-99 10:49 AM ET Hugo Oh, is it THAT Betty Ford. It slipped me by completely. Bishop
walruskkkch	posted 06-09-99 12:02 PM ET For least memorable foreign leader I nominate any Canadian Prime Minister who wasn't MacKensie, Trudot or Mulroney. Your faithful and obedient servant
threeover	posted 06-09-99 01:41 PM ET Geremia Stoodwood. You guys don't know him? That is why he is the least memorable US president.
Borodino	posted 06-09-99 03:24 PM ET No contest. Pierce -- did nothing at all.
Picker	posted 06-09-99 03:25 PM ET who?
Picker	posted 06-09-99 03:28 PM ET Most Memorable Canadian Prime Minister: Joe Clark for getting kicked out of office after a year even though he did nothing wrong.
Ronbo	posted 06-09-99 08:18 PM ET My nomination for most memorable Canadian PM (besides the ubiquitious Pierre Trudeau) would be Kim Campbell--the first female PM in Canadian PM, and the PM when the majority party suffered the most devestating meltdown I can ever recall in ANY country's history. The Progressive Conservative party almost vanished from the political scene in Canada, and is still nowhere near the power it was during the Mulroney years.
MikeH II	posted 06-10-99 07:38 AM ET SnowFire: That creaky old Conservative who succeeded her: Boy, he was gone quick. Er yeah, he was only there for about 6 years. I presume you mean John Major anyway. He was a boring little man. Managed to do literally nothing in his 6 years in office.
SnowFire	posted 06-10-99 12:49 PM ET Anybody who can make 6 years seem "quick" is definitely unmemorable. Not to mention the fact I couldn't remember the name of John, um, what's his name, 15 seconds after reading it.
Spoe	posted 06-10-99 04:30 PM ET David Rice Atchison, without a doubt. Was the 12th President of the United States. He became president when James Polk's term ended at noon, Sunday March 4, 1849 and he left office when Zachary Taylor was sworn in on Monday March 5, 1849. You see, Taylor, being a religious man, refused to be sworn in on the Sabbath. Somebody had to be president so it fell to the President Pro-Tempore(under the law of the day; today the Vice President is the President Pro-Tempore) of the Senate to become the new President of the United States, if only for a day.
JohnIII	posted 06-10-99 04:35 PM ET Let's have a cheer for John Major, most forgettable of PMs... John III
DanS	posted 06-10-99 05:28 PM ET I think Spoe's entry wins the blue ribbon, except that we don't really know if he was president.
Spoe	posted 06-10-99 05:54 PM ET Actually, even if he wasn't President for the full day(because it was between seesions of Congress), he certainly was for a few minutes, as he was sworn in as President Pro-Tempore a few minutes before Taylor on that Monday. So for those few minutes he was indeed President. All nice and legal(by the rule of succession of the time). He also signed a few minor official papers that morning, which stood legally, so he has to be considered President. He later became the de facto Vice President for a few years when the actual Vice President died early in his term. Since there were no provisions at the time to replace the Vice President, Atchison was next in line to the President.
Imran Siddiqui	posted 06-10-99 07:37 PM ET I wouldn't call Major, the Least Memorable. I still remember him. Of course, when you come after a giant (in world history) like Thatcher, who's going to remember you? After all, Bush won't be remembered because he followed Reagan (although, he might get some kudos for the Gulf War and his distinguished career). Imran Siddiqui
walruskkkch	posted 06-10-99 11:38 PM ET Technically Atchison was but back then nobody's finger was on the nuclear trigger so who cared? It wasn't as if Taylor wasn't going to be sworn in. But you're right, he has to be the least memorable, he didn't even get a number!
Provost Harrison	posted 06-11-99 12:39 PM ET I think that, William Hague, current UK conservative leader, is, to be quite honest, a bit of a tit.
JohnIII	posted 06-11-99 01:20 PM ET "Cafe Hague- guaranteed to send you to sleep!" Rory Bremner or one of the writers takes the credit for that John III
Sheng Ji Yang	posted 06-11-99 09:56 PM ET Reagan is the bombity bomb bomb!
Provost Harrison	posted 06-12-99 10:14 AM ET Very good, John III, nothing like a bit of vague Hague.
Spoe	posted 06-12-99 10:16 AM ET "Reagan is the bombity bomb bomb!" Yep, Grenada, Libya, Lebanon/Syria...
NotLikeTea	posted 06-12-99 10:46 AM ET clears his throat and begins to sing "Oh, We are the mediocre presidents! You won't find our faces on dollars and on cents! There's Taylor, there's Tyler, there's Fillmore and there's Hayes, There's William Henry Harrison. 'I died in thirty days!' Yes we are the adequate, forgettable, occasionally regrettable Caretaker presidents of the U! S! A!" Thank you, and goodnight.
Rex Little	posted 06-12-99 02:55 PM ET Hey, Clinton's bombed more countries than Reagan (or any other president since WW2) did, and he's got a year and a half to pad the total.
SnowFire	posted 06-13-99 04:41 PM ET Except that Clinton bombed places to do silly things like stop genocide, while Reagean bombed for the hell of it, it almost seemed. 3 times as many Congressional Medals of Honor were given out over Granada than the number of soldiers who actually served there during the 4 or 5 hours of combat against some construction workers. Oh well, nothing beats Wounded Knee- that "battle" was actually a slaughter of unarmed women and children that handed out plenty of Congressional Medals.
walruskkkch	posted 06-13-99 11:20 PM ET The asprin factory in the Sudan? Get real, Clinton bombs to get the americans attention away from some scandal or another. He lets Saddam do what he wants until he needs to flex some muscle and lo and behold, Monica set to testify? Bomb Iraq! Reagan's bombibg wasn't gratutious, and they certainly were never done to divert attention from ones sexual misadventures. As always, I remain, Your faithful and obedient servant
Provost Harrison	posted 06-14-99 12:08 PM ET I don't think Reagan was capable of sexual misdemeanors! He may have done the same if he was. Look at Thatcher. Falklands war very conveniently restored confidence in her just before the 83 election.
Provost Harrison	posted 06-14-99 12:09 PM ET And the same with Major after the Gulf War.
David Floyd	posted 06-17-99 09:55 AM ET Bad US Presidents: Lincoln FDR JFK Clinton Wilson LBJ Nixon Good US Presidents: Reagan Andrew Jackson Mostly George Washington Theodore Roosevelt Forgettable: As people have said, basically anyone between 1830-1860, plus I would also think people like Garfield and Grover Cleveland.
SnowFire	posted 06-17-99 12:45 PM ET Hmm... interesting list DF. Let's see- Lincoln- what drugs are you on? I see you're from Texas. Please don't tell me you're re-fighting the Civil War. And if you consider the sloppy mess that things degenerating to under Johnson, you can see why Lincoln was the only man for the job back then. FDR- Yeah, I suppose you might disagree with him getting us out of the Depression the way he did, but you gotta hand it to him for trying to wake America out of its isolationist stupor and leading us through WWII. Surely you don't agree with the findings of the Nye Commision, now, do you? JFK- Eh- despite his faults, he was an admirable leader, if he didn't get much done. And he was also the one who really jump-started the space program with his promise to get us on the moon by '69. Not to mention some great quotes, as well. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country?" That's exactly the opposite of what Reagan preached. Clinton- Eh- I wouldn't say bad, just mediocre. He hasn't really done much of substance. Wilson- You don't like Wilson? Come on! He set up the Federal Reserve and got us through WWI, and at least valiantly tried to change the imperialist currents in Europe and set up the League of Nations. Too bad the Republicans torpedoed him back home. LBJ- A true liberal. I respect the man, at least. And give him credit for the tough times he was in. Nixon- Glad you agree here. And you like Reagen? The man who crushed the air traffic controllers and set our transport network back 10 years in other ways as well? Who's wife consulted an astrolger to determine what to do next? Who remembered Star Wars as part of a bad movie he played in in 1947 about a similar set up? Who was senile by '84? Nah. And don't even try and give him credit for the Cold War- that was 90% Gorbachev.
Spoe	posted 06-17-99 07:47 PM ET Andrew Jackson -- For telling the entire judicial branch of the government to go hang itself because he was going to move the Cherokee's regardless of what the courts said(Worcester v Georgia), thereby ignoring his charter to uphold the laws of the country?