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Alpha Centauri Forums
Non-SMAC related Phantom Menace is the worst movie ive in 5 years |
Author | Topic: Phantom Menace is the worst movie ive in 5 years |
1212 |
posted 05-29-99 05:36 PM ET
Ok so you all want to know what the phantom menace is all about. Well unlucky Americans like myself have been damned to endless ads, and products and other stuff that carries the STAR WARS name. I though Lucas was putting STAR WARS on inferior prodcuts, but these products are putting an inferior movie on itself. I have listed the problems i have with the movie below. 1: Acting 2:It tries to be funny! 3:Everyone is phony in the movie. 4: No innovative design. 5:The movies digressed technologicly. 6:They market this movie like it was the fountain of youth. I think that everytime that Lucas sees and ad with STAR WARS in it he laughs maniacly. How can he not. There was too much hype for this movie. 7:This movie didn't help explain anything It didnt tell us anything better but anikin was a slave. And that obi 1 was once young. And Yota was young. 8: Lucas wanted to make this a movie for everyone. God dammit. We dont need a movie for everyone. Were the first ones for every one. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! 9:This movie was best left un-made 10:In Conclusion. THis movie blows. I made 3 of my 4 friends mad by dragging them to this. That one friend that didnt get mad just made commentary with me about the movie like it was Mystery Science Theater 3000. I had to argue like Jack MCcoy on Law & Order to go. And when we finished it we were all disgusted with oursleves for agreeing to go. I could have gone DISCO BOWLING with them. THat would have been ten times more fun. This movie was a chore to watch. I think that i would rather watch the Old NAvy commercials(the ultimate evil in this unvirse) than watch that damn Phantom Menace. Thank you for your time. please reply if you agree or disagree. JAR JAR MUST DIE JAR JAR MUST DIE JAR JAR MUST DIE JAR JAR MUST DIE JAR JAR MUST DIE JAR JAR MUST DIE
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Frodo83 |
posted 05-29-99 05:53 PM ET
Hey, look, it's just a movie. I don't see what you're getting so riled up about. Let people see the film and decide for themselves if it is good or not. And please learn some grammar soon. |
1212 |
posted 05-29-99 06:02 PM ET
frodo why worry about my grammar. it is only grammar. 2 i think that for the hype this movie is getting it sucks. if this was a first movie with no backround and prior movies it would be average. but people makle this out to be the holy grail of movies. it sucks. |
Valtyr |
posted 05-29-99 06:03 PM ET
[i]"Well unlucky Americans like myself have been damned to endless ads, and products and other stuff that carries the STAR WARS name."[/i) LOL! Unlucky forum posters like myself have been damned to endless Star Wars threads like this one for weeks now. Haven't you people had enough ? |
Valtyr |
posted 05-29-99 06:04 PM ET
Oops! Messed up! |
Wraith |
posted 05-29-99 06:27 PM ET
Hail, Well, since I just recently got back from my third viewing of the film, I think I'll contest 1212's statements. Warning: there are spoilers in this post. 1: 2: There was a bit too much humour in this one, but if you take out Jar-Jar it would have been fine. 3: I didn't see them as phony, but then again, when I go to a movie, I'm willing to suspend disbelief. It's a little trick that makes movies so much more enjoyable. Unless they really suck (Starship Troopers jumps to mind), in which case you simply can't get into the movie. I was certainly able to get into this one. 4: No innovative design? Darth Maul is a very unique looking guy... Those huge drone transports were great, especially the way they deployed the drones (pretty nice design there). 5: Yes, they did digress. They were supposed to. This is part of the real back-story to Star Wars. In the orignal series, the Republic was at it's peak, including technologically. When Emperor Palpatine takes over, things start to fall off, including a loss of the most advanced technology. 6: It was over hyped, but anything major is anymore. It's a function of US society, not Lucas. 7: This movie was a great set up for the rest of the series, and added quite a bit to the original series. Does it mean more to you now that Luke found Yoda in a swamp after we've seen him in his seat on the Jedi Council at the heart of the Republic? Don't you notice just how poorly trained Luke was? There are plenty of set-ups in this movie, and it makes a good intro to the next two. 8: If the audience is everyone, then this is a movie for the audience, yes? 9: You're entitled to your opinion. Don't see it again. 10: If you prefer Old Navy commercials and Disco Bowling, then by all means, this isn't the movie for you. If, on the other hand, you have taste, this is a good movie. Just don't let the hype machine pump up your expectations to the point where nothing can fufill them. This movie, veiwed as a stand-alone movie, wouldn't be very good, since it left too many things open and unsaid. However, if you view this as part of a series, this was a good movie. I think two and three will be even better (there's no realistic way to force a Jar-Jar type character on a movie where Vader is hunting Jedi Knights). Wraith |
DCA |
posted 05-29-99 07:24 PM ET
Old Navy Old Navy performance fleece Performance fleece? I'll be there at nine! ah, what a wonderful tv commercial... "there's no realistic way to force a Jar-Jar DCA, |
Octopus |
posted 05-29-99 07:34 PM ET
Why do people feel compelled to post really WIDE posts about that phantom menace? Wraith: 1) I don't know if it was the acting, directing, or writing, but I was totally unable to connect to any of these characters. They all seemed flat, like people reading lines, not like real characters. 2) The movie would still have been stupid and cartoonish without Jar-Jar. Jar-Jar simply gets the most screen time and lamest lines, so he attracts the most animosity. However, aside from the rolling-type battle droids, can you name a single CGI character in this movie that wasn't done for comic effect? The junk-store guy? Sebulba? Boss Nass? They were all jokes, and bad jokes at that. The principle of "comic relief" is that it is "relief" from something. Compare the lame stuff in this movie to the little creature at Jabba's Palace in Return of the Jedi. He was amusing, but also a nasty, evil little creature, and fits into the story and environment quite well. And, Jabba's Palace was also full of characters you could take seriously. This movie had almost none of those. 3) I have to disagree again. I thought things did look pretty phony. The only dramatic moments were during the saber-duels. All of the other Jedi-action seems like two guys jumping around and having fun. It's more like a cheesy kung-fu movie than something you can take seriously or consciously relate to. 4) I didn't see too much innovation. Yes, Darth Maul was cool, but not much else. The concept of the battle droids could have been cool, but they weren't. 5) I'll sort of agree with Wraith on this one. Sure they had shields in the first three... Why do you think they needed to do the commando raid on the Forest Moon of Endor, to blow up the shield generator protecting the Death Star, maybe? However, the shields were more hokey and Star Trek-like, so I don't know if that's a point in Lucas's favor... 6) He could have made a movie that lived up to the hype . 7) "Does it mean more to you now that Luke found Yoda in a swamp after we've seen him in his seat on the Jedi Council at the heart of the Republic?" No. I actually thought the character of Yoda was quite diminished by this showing. I was much more impressed with him when I thought he was a reclusive hermit, not a pathetic outcast. I also hope that they explain why Vader can't track Yoda down in his Jedi extermination program. I had always assumed that it was because he didn't realize Yoda was so important. "Don't you notice just how poorly trained Luke was?" Yes. What does that have to do with this movie? That ground was covered completely in Empire and Jedi. Why do we need more exposition on that? (not that I'm agreeing we got it, I don't understand what you are saying here). "There are plenty of set-ups in this movie, and it makes a good intro to the next two." Hardly. There is some heavy-handed "foreshadowing", but none of the characters or situations were really developed. There was plenty of opportunity for Lucas to do a much better job, but he didn't. 8) The problem isn't so much trying to make the movie for "everyone", it's trying to make it for the lowest common denominator. The previous three movies have exceptionally broad appeal, and they don't need any Jar-Jar-Binks-esque crap in them. They worked because of compelling characters and situations set against a visually appealing backdrop. Lucas seems to have forgotten the first two and concentrated on the last one. 9) Wraith, he's not just saying "this was a bad movie, not living up to the other three", he's saying "this movie actually diminishes the other three by being associated with them". I agree with that. If this movie had never been made, I would have a much higher opinion of "Star Wars." Now, it's possible for Lucas to fix things in the next two, but I'm skeptical. 10) What do people have against the Old Navy commercials? |
1212 |
posted 05-29-99 08:34 PM ET
my counter attack 1: Family movie??? Qui-gon jinn dies graphicly, so does darth maul. in fact many people die so is this a family movie. 2:If you taken out jar jar it would be less of the cold light movie i watched. 3: What are you talking about. They did look like they were dancing with light sabers. They never stopped for a stand still unless it proved physicaly impossible for them to stop fighting. Where as they did in the first three. The lines of anikin all came out phony. like he had a cue card in front of him. 4:you have just 1 line abpout innovation. wow wraith thats what im talkin about. drones whoopee. Yeah those voices were great too. Stephen Hawking must have done the voice overs for each one. 5: well hold on. Now the resistance force against the empire didnt have them. why not. if the empire didnt have them shouldnt the resistance use this as a weakness. Or why wouldnt the empire use htem then. if they controlled everything wouldnt shields help retain their controll. Also why limit it only to the Death Star. 6: no you don't understand wraith. if you count how many million of dollars pepsi, KFC, pizza hut, Taco bell, and anything else that has spent on advertising with a starwars tie in then you would see just how hype it has recieved. no movie has ever recieved this attention. nor has any entertainment event in history. 7:great setup??? how??? from this movie all i know is that anikin was a slave, the force was strong in him, and obi 1 was to train him. OCTOPUS THANK YOU "Two out of 1 million cant be wrong", CIV CALL TO POWER designers. |
Wraith |
posted 05-30-99 12:16 PM ET
1: They don't die graphically. Have you seen Saving Private Ryan? That's graphically. This is a lot more tame than the evening news. After all, people (well, characters) die in The Lion King, and I doubt you'd say that's not a family movie. 2: I was rather fond of Watto (sp?) the junk store owner, actually. He was the best of the CGI characters. He didn't seem to be a joke, but I don't know why you think he was. Sebulba was overbearing and obnoxious, but he was a bully, and bullies usually are. 3: Well, as a I said before, this sort of stuff usually turns me off, but it does fit the Jedi mythos. Especially when you think about their weapon: a sabre vs. blasters? These guys have to be so good that no ordinary opponent will be even the slightest chalenge to them, or they don't work. As for the dancy moves, I've seen it suggested that they were required because of the way lightsabres work. They can cut through anything, but it's not instantaneous, as Qui-Gon trying to cut the blast doors shows, and as does Luke's fight with Vader where one of Lukes slahses glances off of Vader's armour. The sabres are much better at cutting through flesh than metal, and all those droids were metal. A lightsabre blade weighs nothing or almost nothing; therefore, they may have had to use the twirls to build up enough momentum to cut through the metal of the droids. 4: I'll agree on not that much innovative design, if you except the CGI backgrounds, which were truly stunning. And, of course, Maul 5: The Rebellion did too have sheild generators. There was one on the Millenum Falcon, the Hoth base had an energy shield (remember they had to send the ground troops in to destroy the generator before they could bombard the planet, and they had to open the shield for the transports and ion cannon shots to get out?). The Empire also used them, or at least it looked that way for Star Destroyers and Vaders Advanced TIE-Fighter. 6: Yes, there are a lot of movie tie ins. How is this strange? Lucas was one of the first people to do this, and if I recall correctly, Star Wars (A New Hope) was the first movie to have major merchandising tie-ins. This is just that concept adjusted to the consume-everything environment of the US marketplace in the '90s. 7: I do hope the point about Yoda will be explained in the next couple films, but I suspect it had something to do with why he couldn't find Obi-Wan or Luke and Leia (and why the Jedi Council couldn't detect Darth Sidious and Darth Maul). There must be a way of hiding yourself, but it may take very powerful Jedi to do it. Also, Yoda and Obi-Wan are the two good guys we know that have the power to tranlate to that life-after-death state, which Qui-Gon and Darth Maul apparently did not. This is another point Lucas had said will be cleared up in the next couple films. 8: Remember, this is not hard science fiction. Star Wars never has been. It's been skiffy, light entertainment. The first three movies recieved this sort of reviews when they first came out, but now you'll never find someone who admits to saying it about them. If you go in expecting high drama or hard science, you're going to be dissapointed. Take in the spirit it was meant: a couple hours of fun. 10: I'll accept that you didn't like it. I did. I just wanted to contest 1212s first post, especially the bit about technology regression. Wraith |
Octopus |
posted 05-30-99 02:21 PM ET
"He didn't seem to be a joke, but I don't know why you think he was." Because he was a cartoonish charicature. Even if I could accept that as a personality, his physiology was obvioulsy designed to be comical. "Sebulba was overbearing and obnoxious, but he was a bully, and bullies usually are." The "bullying" aspect of his character was fine, it was the presentation that was screwed up. Again, he was a cartoon. You could not take him seriously as a threat. He was a goofy cartoon. It is very possible to creat a bully character who can be taken seriously, but Lucas again decided to go for a cartoonish and silly character. It's also possible to creat a CGI character that isn't a cartoon, it just seems to be beyond Lucas' understanding. "Suspending disbelief: I'll take these movie by movie for a bit. Blade Runner is not the same thing as Star Wars. Blade Runner is probably the movie that's closest to hard-core Science Fiction. Star Wars is somewhere between skiffy and Space Opera. You cannot judge the two movies the same way. If you went to Star Wars expecting hard-core science fiction, you will be dissapointed. It never was, and never has been, supposed to be such." Suspending disbelief is not a function of genre. If you have to "make an effort" to suspend disbelief, then there is something wrong with the movie. You don't have to with the movies that 1212 mentioned, and you don't have to with the first three. In the first three, the characters and situations are so compelling that "suspension of disbelief" happens naturally. The Phantom Menace does not do that at all. You need to make a conscious effort to not see this movie as phony and cheesy. "Remember, this is not hard science fiction. Star Wars never has been. It's been skiffy, light entertainment. The first three movies recieved this sort of reviews when they first came out" I don't know where you came up with this notion that what we are complaining about is that Star Wars is not "hard" sci-fi. Duh. That's obvious to everyone. That's why it seemed so inane when they started talking about "midi-chlorians" and trying to treknobabble the force. It is possible to make a movie that is not "dumbed down" or filled with laughable characters and still appeal to a broad cross-section of the audience. It is possible to make a space opera that is not "dumbed down". The "hardness" of the sci-fi has nothing to do with it. The first three did it. They had interesting and complex characters dealing with interesting and complex situations. This movie had a combination of wooden and cartoonish characters running all over the damned galaxy so Lucas could show off his latest ILM techniques. The plot was convoluted, shallow, and not engrossing in any way. If you can find me reviews that say that the first three movies were like that, I'd like to see them. I'm sure that some people didn't like the first three, but there is an obvious difference between thm and this one. This movie was not good. Compare things like the dramatic pacing to Empire, and you will see that. Compare the character development (what character development?) to the first three, and you will see that this one does not measure up at all. 10) You didn't explain what was wrong with the Old Navy commercials . |
1212 |
posted 05-30-99 06:12 PM ET
Ok Octopus, the thing wrong with the old navy commercials are there dumb as hell. Carrie donavin(lady with the glasses) and all the other peronas do not wear the old navy crap. Also they think they are being funny. That jackass wearing the fin in the new board short commercials pisses me off. The only good thing i can think of coming from these commercials is that old navy will go bankrupt.
1 id you see how they actually die in the lion king. no
3:They didnt look like there was any effort involved. Ive watched fencing and that does take effort. In the first 3 Star Wars movies it seemed to take effort. Im sorry but good movies do suspend belief. Wether it be Saving Private Ryan which had the "your there" feel to blade runner witch also had the same feeling. 4:CGI backrounds??? 5 id these shields play an important role for the most part. did they have r2d2 go out and explicitly repair the shields i think not. Maybe your right Wraith Maybe...
7:wait i can explain yoda now. Obi one fails to train anikin. he becomes vadar the empire rises. they cast yoda and all jedi masters out. yoda then hides. I COULD TELL THAT FROM THE FIRST THREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8: sure its not hard science fiction. thats not the point. As Octopus has stated before it was made for the people with lowest intellegence. I was expecting to gain knowledge about the jedi and yota but i didn't. AT ALL!!! 10: see the top octopus. |
Philip McCauley |
posted 05-31-99 08:15 PM ET
(hey, where's the wordwrap?) I thought TPM was okay. The special effects were great. They covered for the rest of the movie, which sucked. Compared to the other Star Wars movies, it really sucks. The actors evidently had no direction at all. Too often, the lines sound like they're being read, rather than acted. Roger Ebert agrees with me. The setting was ripped right out of the Foundation series and Dune, as was most of the plot. There's a reason Herbert won his lawsuit. Anikin's character was totally unbelievable. An eight year old (Yeah, I know he's supposed to be older. But show me a ten year old that small and I'll show you a kid with a growth defficiency.) who evidently has a masters in engineering and computer programming, and has advanced flight training? Please. He needed to be about twice his age to be remotely believable. The plot had some problems. Too many times, a character who should NOT have been in a given situation manages to save the day. Why the hell do they bring along Anakin on a military strike? "As soon as we get inside, find a hiding place and stay there." What? Either that sleazy senator is obviously going to become the Dark Emperor, or Lucas was padding the script with unnecessary parts. There was no character development in that movie. I went in expecting that Sith guy to be the evil, ruthless bad guy. He had four lines, three if you don't count "Yes, my master.", and two fight scenes. They could've had a really cool villain there, and Lucas blew it. What's with the lips of these traders? Are they some strange species whose lips do not need to synch up with their words? I felt like I was watching some cheap Japanese flick. This feeling wasn't helped by their accents. Those (bipedal) droids were so worthless. Whoever bought them should get their money back. None of the main characters was so much as scratched by them. Oh, and PERSONAL shields, like the ones in Dune , were not in the earlier Star Wars. Why wouldn't all the important main characters have them if some roly-poly droids do? Okay, I'm out of rants and Dilbert's on. |
eNo |
posted 05-31-99 09:12 PM ET
The worst movie I've seen in a while was Titanic. Don't ask me why, I just found it really bad. Back to TPM. Anakin's and Queen Amilda's acting was pretty bad I agree but the acting from the rest was decent. About Anakin being too young: he's supposed to be a child progidy. Darth Maul didn't say much but what could he say in the first place? He was a loyal apprentice he was given a mission to kill some people. Not much room for discussion. Jar Jar Binks should have been decapitated by Darth Maul. |
1212 |
posted 05-31-99 10:44 PM ET
Alright Titanic was a close second because it too had little acting by the lead prepubescent "actor" Thank you at least 3 cant be wrong |
Wraith |
posted 06-01-99 08:04 PM ET
--" Last time checked they didnt have the guys with flame throwers blowing up in a news story." I meant that Star Wars was more tame than the news. --"But what is with his russian accent." Was it Russian? I'm no good at accents. But, so what? How is he evil? Greedy, yes, but that doesn't mean evil. --"In the first 3 Star Wars movies it seemed to take effort." Well, who was fighting? Obi-Wan was old, Vader was half-machine, and Luke wasn't very well trained. Compared to Qui-Gon, a master in the prime of his career, Obi-Wan as a very well trained young man in absoultly top shape, and Darth Maul, who seemed to be one of the best blademasters around the Star Wars galaxy at the time. The fights did, and should have, looked vastly different. --"They both lacked any emotion while doing it." For one thing, they're both of the "inscrutable" Jedi order. For another, emotion isn't a good thing in a heavy fight; if you get pissed, your opponent can make easy use of that to take you out (notice how often Obi-Wan gets booted by Maul when he lets his emotions get out of control?). Also, note Yoda's comments on fear. They're supposed to be aware of their emotions, not succumb to them. --"One thing can be said. It looked phony." Normally, I'd say it would, but given the concept (do I keep repeating myself?) of the Jedi Knight, it's perfectly in story. --"Im sorry but good movies do suspend belief." I, personally, had no trouble suspending disbeleif for Phantom Menace. From the instant the two Jedi opened communications with the blockade, I was into it. --"did these shields play an important role for the most part." Well, yes. Considering how many blaster shots were deflected by the various shields (the blockade runner the Princess was on, the Falcon, the X-Wings, etc) they seemed pretty important. They also played major roles in the plots (the shield around the Death Star in Return of the Jedi was only wrapped up in about a third or more of the film). --"Obi one fails to train anikin." According to the story, Vader manages to track down and kill all the other Jedi. He must be good enough for that. Also, don't forget Emperor Palpatine, who takes Vader as his apprentice. He didn't learn everything from Obi-Wan. --"Too often, the lines sound like they're being read, rather than acted" This sort of criticism is mildly puzzling, since the first three movies certainly weren't Citizen Kane. Star Wars acting and dialouge has never been more than average. There's a compeling, simple (Lucas has studied a lot of mythology) story and great FX. That's all. --"Roger Ebert agrees with me." Wasn't he the one that called Babe: Pig in the City the movie of the year? :P --"as was most of the plot." His plots are straight out of mythology texts. So, to a good extent, are Herberts. So are most modern science-fiction and fantasy plots. Lucas has just done more study into the subject than most. Wraith |
White_Cat |
posted 06-02-99 01:16 AM ET
"Roger Ebert agrees with me." Uh, no he doesn't. He gave TPM 3.5 out of 4 stars. See his review here. |
DanS |
posted 06-02-99 11:39 AM ET
I saw the movie on a 70 millimeter screen--eat your heart out. WOW! It really was good. Much, much better than I had anticipated. Jar Jar Binks was the only annoying character, and I thought the acting was much better in this one compared to Episode IV (let's face it, Luke Skywalker **sucked** in the first one). |
Philip McCauley |
posted 06-03-99 12:27 AM ET
I don't care if Anikin is smarter than God. No one at the age of eight has had enough time to accumulate that kind of knowledge base. Darth Maul could've at least had a few cool taunts, if not some interesting dialogue. As it is, the most memorable thing about him is the face paint. I did't think Jar Jar was that bad. Of course, I'm also a guy who cracks up watching the Three Stooges. The tongue in the electric beam was pretty funny. When I said Ebert agreed with me, I meant that he thought the acting was lame but the FX covered for it. And I was mostly joking. That's why I added a smiley face. Herbert sued them (I can't remember if he sued Lucasfilm, Lucas, or Speilberg), and won a few million bucks. He went through the script, (both from the movie and what landed on the editing room floor) line by line. With stuff like Luke saying something about his dad being on a 'spice freighter' and the sandworm incident still in the movie, it makes you wonder what was left out. And this is purely a guess, but this might be why Lucas waited to make episodes 1-3 until after Frank kicked the bucket. My experience with mythology is limited to the Illiad and the Oddesy. What texts are you talking about? As for plot similarities, let's see... System of planets governed in a feudal system-Asimov, Herbert. Governing planet covered in one big city-Asimov Tiny planet covered in sand and dust, with sandworms-Herbert Merchants taking over a government-Asimov Merchants helping others take over a planet-Herbert Merchants blockading a planet-Herbert 'personal' shields, not just stuff on a spaceship-Herbert Psychic hero who can see into the future-Herbert Hero whose powers come from his genes/cells-Herbert Incredibly widespread use of sentient robots-Asimov Big, pondering government, used as a major plot device-Asimov, Herbert There are probably more, but I'm tired of writing. |
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