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Author Topic:   Universe is 12 billion years old
GaryD posted 05-26-99 09:59 AM ET   Click Here to See the Profile for GaryD  
Happy birthday to you.
Happy birthday to you.
Happy birthday dear universe.
Happy birthday to you.

Hooray !!!!

Universe is 12 billion years old
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_352000/352563.stm

Khan Singh posted 05-26-99 10:01 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Khan Singh  Click Here to Email Khan Singh     
It's a grand old universe. It is, in fact, the best and wisest universe that I have ever known.
Tolls posted 05-26-99 11:38 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Tolls  Click Here to Email Tolls     
And it doesn't look a day over 10 billion as well...
jsorense posted 05-26-99 11:52 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for jsorense  Click Here to Email jsorense     
Ahh, one day older and one day closer to the Big Crunch.
4Horses posted 05-26-99 12:28 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for 4Horses  Click Here to Email 4Horses     
How old does that make God?

Picker posted 05-26-99 12:42 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Picker  Click Here to Email Picker     
Pretty damn old.
The One And Only DarkStar posted 05-26-99 12:43 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for The One And Only DarkStar  Click Here to Email The One And Only DarkStar     
Hmmm...how can we explain the existence of heavenly bodies being older than 12 billion years then?

Like stars of 15 billion years of age...

GaryD posted 05-26-99 01:52 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for GaryD    
Apart from The One And Only Darkstar, the rest lied about their age so they could buy a few beers.
Thue posted 05-26-99 03:45 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Thue  Click Here to Email Thue     
Isn't it time for the 12 billion hurrays now? Don't forget the long one.
OhWell posted 05-26-99 04:01 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for OhWell    
Oh no! My system just crashed 'cause of the Y12Billion bug!
Shouldn't have looked at this thread!
DHE_X2 posted 05-26-99 09:17 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for DHE_X2  Click Here to Email DHE_X2     
Does this mean we have to give all of existence a birthday cake? And what prsent do you buy for that which not only has everything, but is?

Haha! I have succeeded in confusing myself!

Thue posted 05-26-99 09:22 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Thue  Click Here to Email Thue     
(...)
hurray (1042)
hurray (1043)
hurray (1044)
hurray (1045)
hurray (1046)
hurray (1047)

... oh never mind.

MikeH II posted 05-27-99 05:12 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for MikeH II  Click Here to Email MikeH II     
I am not giving the Universe 12 billion bumps!
RM posted 05-27-99 05:30 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for RM  Click Here to Email RM     

We do not know exactly how old the universe is, only that it is somewhere between 12 and 18 billion years old. And it can have different age at different places, because when something travel with relativistic speed, time goes faster.

Spoe posted 05-27-99 12:13 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Spoe  Click Here to Email Spoe     
"...time goes faster."

ITYM slower, unless you are using some wierd revisionist relativity theory.

The One And Only DarkStar posted 05-27-99 12:27 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for The One And Only DarkStar  Click Here to Email The One And Only DarkStar     
Let's consider a place where time is MORE distorted than for us and another place where it is less.

For us, at places time might go faster than time on Earth.

And in other places, it will go slower.

Since it as to do with gravity, we can pretty much guess that the Universe would be younger near black holes and older in the intergalactic void, far from any important gravity source.

And 12 billion EARTH years...
Is there a real time division for the entire universe?

If the universe spins, maybe an entire revolution?

Rong posted 05-27-99 06:16 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Rong  Click Here to Email Rong     
Nah, I'd say the half-life of proton decay.
Spoe posted 05-27-99 06:20 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Spoe  Click Here to Email Spoe     
How about something less than the age of the universe, Rong? Half-life of a free neutron?
MichaeltheGreat posted 06-01-99 11:25 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for MichaeltheGreat  Click Here to Email MichaeltheGreat     
RM - Relativistic speeds don't matter in this case, since you are considering a reference frame which encompasses the entire universe, and resolving the age in terms of that specific reference frame - due to gravitational time dilation, relativistic objects will be younger in their own reference frames, but not in a larger reference frame which encompasses other objects or the entire universe.

One and only DS:

The age of stars issue will likely be resolved more accurately, due to detailed HST surveys of Cepheid variables, and we will likely find the ages of the universe and the oldest structures in it to come into closer agreement. This is interesting in itself, since the early appearance of structure in the universe gives a lot of indication as to mass and the ultimate fate of the universe.

Spoe, RM et al:
Time dilation is one directional, i.e. time can go slower as an object becomes relativistic, but never faster than when the object is in a rest state. If you work the equations on the other side of c, i.e. faster than light, the same phonomena applies, in the opposite direction, and as the speed approaches infinity, time returns to its non-relativistic, or normal, rate.
At precisely c (light speed in a vacuum) time dilation is infinite, i.e. time stops, but quantum theory does not allow an object to be precisely at c - it jumps around a bit, due to the uncertainty relation, so there is always some passage of time, in any reference frame. Relativity is governed by the requirements of Quantum theory and other physical laws, we just can't work the make to quantize relativity. Quantum gravity blows up every time. Solve the problem, and you will be the greatest name in the history of science.

Half life of a free neutron is pretty damned short, so that doesn't work. Earth years sounds weird, but it is acceptable for the age of the universe, because it is just the name we put on a lump of time that is x amount long in a non-relativistic time frame.

In other words, it doesn't matter where you measure, once you make the adjustment of the reference frames, an "earth year" is the same thing in any part of the universe, or in the whole universe.

Also keep in mind that the most objects in the universe are not moving at relativistic speeds, space itself is expanding that way. The entire point to General Relativity is that you can reconcile all objects internal sense of space and time in an absolute four dimensional array of space-time, as developed and proven by Hermann Minkowski in 1908. IIRC the year.

Whether the universe as a whole spins is a very interesting question, for a whole plethora of reasons, since angular momentum (in this case, we're really talking about rotation, or angular momentum - you don't want to use the term spin, because of the confusion with the spin property in particle physics) is conserved if (as we have every reason to believe) energy is conserved. Since the universe was born from a singularity, any spin in the universe was there in the singularity, so that would be a demonstration that at least some quantum numbers are conserved in a singularity - that would be a confirmation of our understanding of many issues in physics which would be worthy of a Nobel if it was ever observed.

MichaeltheGreat posted 06-01-99 11:28 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for MichaeltheGreat  Click Here to Email MichaeltheGreat     
TYPO - "work the make" in the above post should be "work the math" I can do physics, I can't type.

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