Racism, fanatism, imperialism and world policing

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Author Topic:   Racism, fanatism, imperialism and world policing

chola3 posted 05-20-99 12:24 PM ET
This is to continue some of those posts in the "The United States no longer exists" thread which were not related to that thread.
But first the economy stuff included in those posts by High Priest, Roland:
**** a. ****
HP said,
"Hah! Look at the US in the seventies(and maybe today), it seems the Japanese are far more ruthless in business aspects (maybe not so in originality). The Japs took over many US markets, electronics, cars, etc. It wasn't till recently that the Americans have begun to retake their home market."
I had already said,
"I don't mean here that such practices by the Americans are unexpected or unethical or what. It is what you call business. The point is, if there is no country as strong and influential as America, I am sure the recovery would be more in line with the wishes of East Asians rather than as at now, since some of the European strings would end up cancelling each other."
In any case, your statements at least prove nations, even the No.1, is very sensitive to foreigners controlling banks.
** b. **
Roland:
The thing about India is similar to Cuba. Both cozied up to USSR and received a (just) retaliation. As for India, I did say India could have done much better. I would be the last one to blame India's economic mess on any other country. Discussion about that here will not be interesting to non-Indians, though.
Other than that, not much I have against the Americans in economic matters.
Actually, I was wondering today how I came to be anti-US in this forum! I supported the raids on Tripoli and also the liberation of Kuwait. Maybe I connect everything to my dislike of draft-dodgers becoming supreme commanders. Or hopefully, the issued involved are such that I happen to be on the opposing team, like in the Yugoslav issue, the A-Baghdad-bombing-a-year-keeps-political-opponents-away and also the unnecessary wrangling over how/where to try the Lockerbie suspects.
In fact, I was hoping all of Europe would teach India a lesson for the nuke tests. They didn't do it and forced Pakistan to defend its 'honour'. Most Indians were actually PLEASANTLY surprised at Pakistan's nuke ability.
As for Mahathir, I suggest you read his "Malay Dilema" written 20 years ago. I know we can't read all the interesting books in the world. Yet, even as an Indian, I found the book interesting and gave it to my German friend. ('interesting' does not equal 'correct/good/aceeptable'.)
Funnily, Mahathir does not seem to be following his original ideas anymore.

Currently in Kuala Lumpur, the worry on economic melt-down, while significant, is overshadowed by other concerns: The loss of the pig-industry, concerns about judiciary independence and the coming general elections.
In any case, I think it better (for me) to put the Mahathir and IMF issue away. I know little about IMF. And there is too much to write about Mahathir/Malaysia to fit this thread.
One final note:
Roland said,
"On the other hand, the IMF could just stay out if it all..."
I would say it is good idea but then others would say I am a racist Indian who wants East Asians to suffer. So, keep the money rolling!!
*****************
Will post the stuff related to this thread soon.
chola3 posted 05-20-99 01:11 PM ET
Ravenblade wrote (in the other thread)
"With the exception of Christianity I agree with most of what Chola has to say. I am a caucasian of Greek lineage and can say the Greek Orthodox have not behaved in the same way the Catholics and Protestants have. I also know what Chola is saying, the Greeks went through over 300 years of Turkish domination. Regarding religion, Chola, I would say no religion is to blame, it is the people who use religion as a excuse to behave like monsters that are to blame. Me, as an Orthodox Christian have no wish to imprint my views on others, and I'm sure most Greek Orthodox feel the same way I do.
As to racial degradation, Chola, I would say you are probably a better person for what you've been through. I once heard a black man say racist comments urged him to prove bigots wrong. No nation should police any other nation. Who has the right to do that? The biggest nation? Ha, they are the worst candidates. Most large nations became large at someone elses expense."
**************

Ravenblade:
Thanks for agreeing with some of what I wrote. Not that I was desperate but I do need someone to sort of 'verify' my points.
I don't know much about the Orthodox. The last time I came upon it was when CNN showed the Serbs celebrating Easter or something. While I can't make judgements, the ceremonies in the church seem more inward-looking than the "Christianity" I knew of.
Other than that, I have read the Serb Orthodox views on Bosnia, Krajina etc in the internet. They too seem inward-looking, although accepting some sort of violence.
FYI, when a non-European/American says Christianity, we usually mean Catholics and Protestants, not those in Russia, Lebanon, Egypt or Syria. The very fact I know less about Orthodox means it must be a peaceful religion.
All the same, I think some religions are inherently dangerous. For example, the Jews are taught they are the choosen race (while others must be chopped liver). These type of teachings can be used for horrible deeds. Then, there is the Catholic church which levies tax on its followers. Not really bad but since the Church can only become rich by having more members, then things get messy.
In all, I think all organised religion, which requires a person to totally believe in some books, is not only silly but dangerous. I used to think Hindu/Buddhism is immune to these things. However, the predominantly Western "Hare Krishna" group had proven me wrong.
When such organised religion incorporates the clauses
1. Only those praying to god X will go to heaven while others will definitely go to hell,
2. God will reward you for converting others to your religion,
trouble begins.
The greatest catastrope is when another clause is added:
3. Thou shall, at all times, try to convert someone to the 'true' word - even at the point of a sword; otherwise you are a traitor to your god.
While we still need individual leaders to misuse the religion, the frequency and probablity of such mis-use depends on the characteristics of that religion. For example, people of certain religions are heavily and openly resistive to using tricks/force to convert others while others are very receptive to the same.
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Author	Topic: Racism, fanatism, imperialism and world policing
chola3	posted 05-20-99 12:24 PM ET This is to continue some of those posts in the "The United States no longer exists" thread which were not related to that thread. But first the economy stuff included in those posts by High Priest, Roland: ** a. HP said, "Hah! Look at the US in the seventies(and maybe today), it seems the Japanese are far more ruthless in business aspects (maybe not so in originality). The Japs took over many US markets, electronics, cars, etc. It wasn't till recently that the Americans have begun to retake their home market." I had already said, "I don't mean here that such practices by the Americans are unexpected or unethical or what. It is what you call business. The point is, if there is no country as strong and influential as America, I am sure the recovery would be more in line with the wishes of East Asians rather than as at now, since some of the European strings would end up cancelling each other." In any case, your statements at least prove nations, even the No.1, is very sensitive to foreigners controlling banks. b. Roland: The thing about India is similar to Cuba. Both cozied up to USSR and received a (just) retaliation. As for India, I did say India could have done much better. I would be the last one to blame India's economic mess on any other country. Discussion about that here will not be interesting to non-Indians, though. Other than that, not much I have against the Americans in economic matters. Actually, I was wondering today how I came to be anti-US in this forum! I supported the raids on Tripoli and also the liberation of Kuwait. Maybe I connect everything to my dislike of draft-dodgers becoming supreme commanders. Or hopefully, the issued involved are such that I happen to be on the opposing team, like in the Yugoslav issue, the A-Baghdad-bombing-a-year-keeps-political-opponents-away and also the unnecessary wrangling over how/where to try the Lockerbie suspects. In fact, I was hoping all of Europe would teach India a lesson for the nuke tests. They didn't do it and forced Pakistan to defend its 'honour'. Most Indians were actually PLEASANTLY surprised at Pakistan's nuke ability. As for Mahathir, I suggest you read his "Malay Dilema" written 20 years ago. I know we can't read all the interesting books in the world. Yet, even as an Indian, I found the book interesting and gave it to my German friend. ('interesting' does not equal 'correct/good/aceeptable'.) Funnily, Mahathir does not seem to be following his original ideas anymore. Currently in Kuala Lumpur, the worry on economic melt-down, while significant, is overshadowed by other concerns: The loss of the pig-industry, concerns about judiciary independence and the coming general elections. In any case, I think it better (for me) to put the Mahathir and IMF issue away. I know little about IMF. And there is too much to write about Mahathir/Malaysia to fit this thread. One final note: Roland said, "On the other hand, the IMF could just stay out if it all..." I would say it is good idea but then others would say I am a racist Indian who wants East Asians to suffer. So, keep the money rolling!! *************** Will post the stuff related to this thread soon.
chola3	posted 05-20-99 01:11 PM ET Ravenblade wrote (in the other thread) "With the exception of Christianity I agree with most of what Chola has to say. I am a caucasian of Greek lineage and can say the Greek Orthodox have not behaved in the same way the Catholics and Protestants have. I also know what Chola is saying, the Greeks went through over 300 years of Turkish domination. Regarding religion, Chola, I would say no religion is to blame, it is the people who use religion as a excuse to behave like monsters that are to blame. Me, as an Orthodox Christian have no wish to imprint my views on others, and I'm sure most Greek Orthodox feel the same way I do. As to racial degradation, Chola, I would say you are probably a better person for what you've been through. I once heard a black man say racist comments urged him to prove bigots wrong. No nation should police any other nation. Who has the right to do that? The biggest nation? Ha, they are the worst candidates. Most large nations became large at someone elses expense." ************** Ravenblade: Thanks for agreeing with some of what I wrote. Not that I was desperate but I do need someone to sort of 'verify' my points. I don't know much about the Orthodox. The last time I came upon it was when CNN showed the Serbs celebrating Easter or something. While I can't make judgements, the ceremonies in the church seem more inward-looking than the "Christianity" I knew of. Other than that, I have read the Serb Orthodox views on Bosnia, Krajina etc in the internet. They too seem inward-looking, although accepting some sort of violence. FYI, when a non-European/American says Christianity, we usually mean Catholics and Protestants, not those in Russia, Lebanon, Egypt or Syria. The very fact I know less about Orthodox means it must be a peaceful religion. All the same, I think some religions are inherently dangerous. For example, the Jews are taught they are the choosen race (while others must be chopped liver). These type of teachings can be used for horrible deeds. Then, there is the Catholic church which levies tax on its followers. Not really bad but since the Church can only become rich by having more members, then things get messy. In all, I think all organised religion, which requires a person to totally believe in some books, is not only silly but dangerous. I used to think Hindu/Buddhism is immune to these things. However, the predominantly Western "Hare Krishna" group had proven me wrong. When such organised religion incorporates the clauses 1. Only those praying to god X will go to heaven while others will definitely go to hell, 2. God will reward you for converting others to your religion, trouble begins. The greatest catastrope is when another clause is added: 3. Thou shall, at all times, try to convert someone to the 'true' word - even at the point of a sword; otherwise you are a traitor to your god. While we still need individual leaders to misuse the religion, the frequency and probablity of such mis-use depends on the characteristics of that religion. For example, people of certain religions are heavily and openly resistive to using tricks/force to convert others while others are very receptive to the same.