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Author Topic:   Automate Formers Bug?

romulus posted 02-14-99 08:38 PM ET
When I choose to automate a large number of formers, they swarm all over, but rarely report any tangible improvements. (Once in a blue moon the game reports "hey, your formers did this or that.") Nor can I seem to see what they are doing. Is this a bug? Bad AI? Or am I missing something?
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS posted 02-15-99 12:08 AM ET
Well, there is some weirdness still left in their AI, but we'll need to squash it on a case by case basis. If you've got a save that illustrates your point, by all means send it to me at [email protected]. Please detail what's going on and where to look. Thanks.
jkm
firaxis games
Mcerion posted 02-15-99 03:55 AM ET
First I want to say this game is a Masterpiece. OK.
I too have found this problem. It started in Version 2.0. I gave several terraformers different automatic orders and for the next 100 turns several of them stayed in the same spot doing nothing. I am playing the Hive. I don't know if that is important, but maybe. I am still playing the same scenario, but now I am manually terraforming everything. If you would like a copy of my saved game I would be glad to send it to you
romulus posted 02-15-99 08:45 AM ET
Hi Jeffrey, Many turns later, improvements started showing up. So I'll pass on your offer to put this particular case under the microscope. But I'd tend to agree that the AI needs refinement -- the "swarm" of formers weren't working very efficiently. They seemed to focus on terrain changes rather than improvements (maybe that's as it should be) and focused their efforts in some places -- mainly big cities that were doing OK -- while other small cities withered and died. And I'm not sure they always completed their work before buzzing onto something else. Other than this bug, wow -- great game!
bene4 posted 02-15-99 01:19 PM ET
Playing without the v2.0 over the weekend had similar former probs - both on fully automatic and on autoimprove home base (very useful).
Some formers just got confused - spending the turn on "G" (movement) and ending on "a" (automatic). This got really irritating once I had built tubes... It was mostly occuring at recently conquered cities (I can't say for sure, but I am pretty sure it never happened around cities I built).
Thinking about it, it is possible that the formers were built before the zone of control changed (so they may think that they can't do anything in the area...)
ptahs posted 02-16-99 03:16 AM ET
Hi,
I've also had problems using automated formers. These have occurred during single player games on the original v1.0i.
Essentially the formers get stuck on "go-to" and either run around the map continuously or just go to a spot and sit there on auto. This happens with new and old formers and is not linked to any newly conquered or built cities.
I have found that initially they will improve some land but then they "take-off" to other parts of the map, leaving plenty of improvements to perform.
The end-result is that i've had to use all formers manually which can be frustrating.
I'll try and find a saved game to send on to you Jeffrey as you suggested to another player.
Stormhound posted 02-16-99 01:59 PM ET
What I've noted is that formers behave themselves fairly well on "Auto improve home base" until either there's nothing more to improve, or they just can't find it. I do have to step in occasionally to guide them, and sometimes I can do enough manually to get them to work again on auto. I also will sometimes just haul them over to the nearest base, re-home them, and set them to auto-improving again. They seem to like that well enough. And all else failing, I can set them to building roads to connect my bases, something that's usually useful.
But I NEVER have more than 1-2 set on the autonomous improvement mode, because they spend too much time rushing around to wherever.
Captain Obvious posted 02-16-99 04:55 PM ET
Yeah, I use autoimprove home base just to keep better tabs on my formers.
I had one former that insisted on running in a circle in my magtubes over and over.
He did like five revolutions each turn until I stopped him and gave him new orders...
Stormhound posted 02-17-99 08:46 AM ET
Yeah, Cap...I never check that "Don't center over units with orders" box in the prefs, because that way I can keep tabs on the formers. If I see one doing that, I just give him a little slap...oops, that's Dungeon Keeper...anyhow, I click on him and cancel his orders, and run him manually for a bit. Seems to work okay.
KaiserSoze posted 02-17-99 09:12 AM ET
Also, can you implement a way to break in on the Auto Formers? I had a former that got caught in some type of loop. He would Start right below a city, move to the right, go down one, then go back up, then left (loop)
This would be ok, except he did it over Mag rails. It was amusing for 2 minutes, then I rebooted, as I couldn't seem to interrupt.
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS posted 02-17-99 11:07 AM ET
Probably not Kaiser. Don't kill me.
jkm
firaxis games
The Thomas A Stobie posted 02-17-99 12:47 PM ET
Jeff, a simple improvement would be have the formers recognize that they are confused. One case that can be managed is the case where a former moving on mag tubes decides to stop because it has tried moving enough even though there is movement remaining. Here I would post a message, "Former confused, automation deactivated" and let the player continue its turn.
Squid Vicious posted 02-17-99 01:29 PM ET
I only noticed a problem with the formers when they are fungicidal. When in auto they ONLY clear fungus. If there is no fungus, they just wander about. I prevent this by unchecking the clear fungus option in the automate preferences. Then the formers work fine. If I want a former to automatically clear fungus, I pick one or two and ctrl-shift-f.
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Author	Topic: Automate Formers Bug?
romulus	posted 02-14-99 08:38 PM ET When I choose to automate a large number of formers, they swarm all over, but rarely report any tangible improvements. (Once in a blue moon the game reports "hey, your formers did this or that.") Nor can I seem to see what they are doing. Is this a bug? Bad AI? Or am I missing something?
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS	posted 02-15-99 12:08 AM ET Well, there is some weirdness still left in their AI, but we'll need to squash it on a case by case basis. If you've got a save that illustrates your point, by all means send it to me at [email protected]. Please detail what's going on and where to look. Thanks. jkm firaxis games
Mcerion	posted 02-15-99 03:55 AM ET First I want to say this game is a Masterpiece. OK. I too have found this problem. It started in Version 2.0. I gave several terraformers different automatic orders and for the next 100 turns several of them stayed in the same spot doing nothing. I am playing the Hive. I don't know if that is important, but maybe. I am still playing the same scenario, but now I am manually terraforming everything. If you would like a copy of my saved game I would be glad to send it to you
romulus	posted 02-15-99 08:45 AM ET Hi Jeffrey, Many turns later, improvements started showing up. So I'll pass on your offer to put this particular case under the microscope. But I'd tend to agree that the AI needs refinement -- the "swarm" of formers weren't working very efficiently. They seemed to focus on terrain changes rather than improvements (maybe that's as it should be) and focused their efforts in some places -- mainly big cities that were doing OK -- while other small cities withered and died. And I'm not sure they always completed their work before buzzing onto something else. Other than this bug, wow -- great game!
bene4	posted 02-15-99 01:19 PM ET Playing without the v2.0 over the weekend had similar former probs - both on fully automatic and on autoimprove home base (very useful). Some formers just got confused - spending the turn on "G" (movement) and ending on "a" (automatic). This got really irritating once I had built tubes... It was mostly occuring at recently conquered cities (I can't say for sure, but I am pretty sure it never happened around cities I built). Thinking about it, it is possible that the formers were built before the zone of control changed (so they may think that they can't do anything in the area...)
ptahs	posted 02-16-99 03:16 AM ET Hi, I've also had problems using automated formers. These have occurred during single player games on the original v1.0i. Essentially the formers get stuck on "go-to" and either run around the map continuously or just go to a spot and sit there on auto. This happens with new and old formers and is not linked to any newly conquered or built cities. I have found that initially they will improve some land but then they "take-off" to other parts of the map, leaving plenty of improvements to perform. The end-result is that i've had to use all formers manually which can be frustrating. I'll try and find a saved game to send on to you Jeffrey as you suggested to another player.
Stormhound	posted 02-16-99 01:59 PM ET What I've noted is that formers behave themselves fairly well on "Auto improve home base" until either there's nothing more to improve, or they just can't find it. I do have to step in occasionally to guide them, and sometimes I can do enough manually to get them to work again on auto. I also will sometimes just haul them over to the nearest base, re-home them, and set them to auto-improving again. They seem to like that well enough. And all else failing, I can set them to building roads to connect my bases, something that's usually useful. But I NEVER have more than 1-2 set on the autonomous improvement mode, because they spend too much time rushing around to wherever.
Captain Obvious	posted 02-16-99 04:55 PM ET Yeah, I use autoimprove home base just to keep better tabs on my formers. I had one former that insisted on running in a circle in my magtubes over and over. He did like five revolutions each turn until I stopped him and gave him new orders...
Stormhound	posted 02-17-99 08:46 AM ET Yeah, Cap...I never check that "Don't center over units with orders" box in the prefs, because that way I can keep tabs on the formers. If I see one doing that, I just give him a little slap...oops, that's Dungeon Keeper...anyhow, I click on him and cancel his orders, and run him manually for a bit. Seems to work okay.
KaiserSoze	posted 02-17-99 09:12 AM ET Also, can you implement a way to break in on the Auto Formers? I had a former that got caught in some type of loop. He would Start right below a city, move to the right, go down one, then go back up, then left (loop) This would be ok, except he did it over Mag rails. It was amusing for 2 minutes, then I rebooted, as I couldn't seem to interrupt.
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS	posted 02-17-99 11:07 AM ET Probably not Kaiser. Don't kill me. jkm firaxis games
The Thomas A Stobie	posted 02-17-99 12:47 PM ET Jeff, a simple improvement would be have the formers recognize that they are confused. One case that can be managed is the case where a former moving on mag tubes decides to stop because it has tried moving enough even though there is movement remaining. Here I would post a message, "Former confused, automation deactivated" and let the player continue its turn.
Squid Vicious	posted 02-17-99 01:29 PM ET I only noticed a problem with the formers when they are fungicidal. When in auto they ONLY clear fungus. If there is no fungus, they just wander about. I prevent this by unchecking the clear fungus option in the automate preferences. Then the formers work fine. If I want a former to automatically clear fungus, I pick one or two and ctrl-shift-f.