So who at Firaxis coded the AI that handles CP base building?

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Author Topic:   So who at Firaxis coded the AI that handles CP base building?

mattyv posted 03-06-99 08:37 PM ET
I find it both funny and annoying that the computer players build their bases so close to one other ie. UoP bases are 3-4 squares apart from each other.
1) This is extremely ineffecient for the computer player (or any player) because they're limiting their population size by overlapping resource squares.
2) This is REALLY annoying when a player invades a computer player and takes over its cities. If you're like me and can't STAND to see them that close to each other, you grin and bare the attrocity of destroying the city in order to keep the surrounding cities viable at higher populations but like I said.. it's an attrocity..
This problem isn't so bad in single player mode where you can build colony pods out of the bases and eventually "move" out the last batch of colonists, but in multiplayer it doesn't give you the option to get rid of the last colonists.
so how about this...
1) get the computer players to space out their cities abit better (it'll help them more than us).
2) fix the last colony pod bug in multiplayer

StickFigure posted 03-06-99 11:26 PM ET
Yes, I like to try to maximize population. However, that isn't necessarily the best thing to do early on. Early you want as many pop points as possible... so the more cities the better.
The computer probably uses this idea of more cities = more pop = more tech, etc.
It is just "your style" if you will.
cjr
Chris Clark posted 03-07-99 12:14 AM ET
I also like to maximize my population. However, like said... early on it is key to build many cities. If you make a city and then act as if all 21 squares are being used and should not be doubled up, you're wasting those squares until the city does grow to be that big. In the long term, It is best to not double up squares; but on small maps or maps with little land, the best way to go is to make more cities to use those squares early. In the end, you might have 2 cities sharing all their squares, and producing units at half the rate an equivalent one city could, but together those two cities are keeping up with what the one maxed out city could.
-Chris
Genghis posted 03-10-99 04:41 PM ET
I totally concur with Mattyr, however. I think it's just a little thing of mine, that I hate having bases overlap each other. That's why when I conquer enemy bases which overlaps my own, I have this huge desire to see them destroyed and their position altered. The only way to do it, other than atrocities, is to famine the population and build only colony pods, which is very annoying. What I really want is for Firaxis to add this as a pre-game option: NO OVERLAPPING BASES ALLOWED. If this means that a base can't be built because of some enemy city several squares away you haven't even discovered yet, so be it.
JaimeWolf posted 03-10-99 06:00 PM ET
Ghengis: are you the person who posted earlier "One silly reason I like SMAC"?
That person was head-over-heels about the ability to create sea bases because then every city could exactly fit the pattern of placing cities so that only small bands of Planet's surface remained unused (columns of 3x1 squares).
Cheers
James
mattyv posted 03-10-99 11:17 PM ET
hey now, there's nothing wrong with good planning :P
ok well... so maybe SOME of us are Obsessive Compulsive about it
Dinsdale posted 03-11-99 12:57 AM ET
Overlapping cities was something that drove me mad in Civ II and it continues to drive me 'round the bend in SMAC. What does it say about me that I continue to play for 24, even 36 hours at a stretch?
I don't believe that this is a bug, necessarily. Instead it's something that Firaxis _could_ change to please those of us that are a little too A-R for our own good.
NB: After years of pining for the peculiar joy of discovering Civ II, I ain't complaining.
agoraphobe posted 03-11-99 09:41 AM ET
Definitly not a bug, it's a feature, and the discussion has already taken place in the proper forums (under The Game). The AI _deliberately_ builds this way, it's actually a cost-effective way to increase population without having to program the AI to build _up_ as intellegently as a human player. Besides, what's an AI to do once you have the Cloning Vats? It'll really go nuts with the bases then, especially if it's trying to dislodge you from the Guv'norship.
If you get too many of these, the auto-build AI might just come in handy here - just switch them to 'Conquer' and use them as military launch pads.
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Author	Topic: So who at Firaxis coded the AI that handles CP base building?
mattyv	posted 03-06-99 08:37 PM ET I find it both funny and annoying that the computer players build their bases so close to one other ie. UoP bases are 3-4 squares apart from each other. 1) This is extremely ineffecient for the computer player (or any player) because they're limiting their population size by overlapping resource squares. 2) This is REALLY annoying when a player invades a computer player and takes over its cities. If you're like me and can't STAND to see them that close to each other, you grin and bare the attrocity of destroying the city in order to keep the surrounding cities viable at higher populations but like I said.. it's an attrocity.. This problem isn't so bad in single player mode where you can build colony pods out of the bases and eventually "move" out the last batch of colonists, but in multiplayer it doesn't give you the option to get rid of the last colonists. so how about this... 1) get the computer players to space out their cities abit better (it'll help them more than us). 2) fix the last colony pod bug in multiplayer
StickFigure	posted 03-06-99 11:26 PM ET Yes, I like to try to maximize population. However, that isn't necessarily the best thing to do early on. Early you want as many pop points as possible... so the more cities the better. The computer probably uses this idea of more cities = more pop = more tech, etc. It is just "your style" if you will. cjr
Chris Clark	posted 03-07-99 12:14 AM ET I also like to maximize my population. However, like said... early on it is key to build many cities. If you make a city and then act as if all 21 squares are being used and should not be doubled up, you're wasting those squares until the city does grow to be that big. In the long term, It is best to not double up squares; but on small maps or maps with little land, the best way to go is to make more cities to use those squares early. In the end, you might have 2 cities sharing all their squares, and producing units at half the rate an equivalent one city could, but together those two cities are keeping up with what the one maxed out city could. -Chris
Genghis	posted 03-10-99 04:41 PM ET I totally concur with Mattyr, however. I think it's just a little thing of mine, that I hate having bases overlap each other. That's why when I conquer enemy bases which overlaps my own, I have this huge desire to see them destroyed and their position altered. The only way to do it, other than atrocities, is to famine the population and build only colony pods, which is very annoying. What I really want is for Firaxis to add this as a pre-game option: NO OVERLAPPING BASES ALLOWED. If this means that a base can't be built because of some enemy city several squares away you haven't even discovered yet, so be it.
JaimeWolf	posted 03-10-99 06:00 PM ET Ghengis: are you the person who posted earlier "One silly reason I like SMAC"? That person was head-over-heels about the ability to create sea bases because then every city could exactly fit the pattern of placing cities so that only small bands of Planet's surface remained unused (columns of 3x1 squares). Cheers James
mattyv	posted 03-10-99 11:17 PM ET hey now, there's nothing wrong with good planning :P ok well... so maybe SOME of us are Obsessive Compulsive about it
Dinsdale	posted 03-11-99 12:57 AM ET Overlapping cities was something that drove me mad in Civ II and it continues to drive me 'round the bend in SMAC. What does it say about me that I continue to play for 24, even 36 hours at a stretch? I don't believe that this is a bug, necessarily. Instead it's something that Firaxis _could_ change to please those of us that are a little too A-R for our own good. NB: After years of pining for the peculiar joy of discovering Civ II, I ain't complaining.
agoraphobe	posted 03-11-99 09:41 AM ET Definitly not a bug, it's a feature, and the discussion has already taken place in the proper forums (under The Game). The AI _deliberately_ builds this way, it's actually a cost-effective way to increase population without having to program the AI to build _up_ as intellegently as a human player. Besides, what's an AI to do once you have the Cloning Vats? It'll really go nuts with the bases then, especially if it's trying to dislodge you from the Guv'norship. If you get too many of these, the auto-build AI might just come in handy here - just switch them to 'Conquer' and use them as military launch pads.