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Author | Topic: Firaxis (Jeff) threatened to ban me--here's why... |
yin26 |
![]() ![]() ![]() [my message posted about a week ago in the trouble shooting section after Jeff continued to blame Windows for SMAC lock-ups] Dear Firaxis, Did you or did you not design your game to work under the Windows environment? To say, "Oh, yeah, THAT crash. Well, that's a Windows problem" seems odd considering my Windows wouldn't crash (at that specific moment at least) unless I were playing SMAC would it? True, Windows absolutely sucks and programming for it must be a nightmare, but that's your job: To program under Windows so it doesn't crash. Our job is to pay your salary. If you don't do your job, we can't really do ours. I truly do appreciate that there is even such a person as Jeff here to read what we have to say, but why not just suck it up and say, "O.K., we'll kill the bug" and then fix it? Blaming Windows is extremely lame. [Jeff's personal reply to my e-mail account] Hi yin. I've got to ask what your problem is. Feel free to have [my reply] Dear Jeff, If I misunderstood your post, then I apologize. But from what I could tell, people were reporting a crash (which I have also encountered) and your response was something to the effect of "That's a Window's problem not a SMAC problem." If you didn't mean to say that, then your post was ambiguous. How could it NOT be a SMAC problem when so many people encounter the same problem? If it's not a SMAC problem, then why does my system lock-up only when I play SMAC at certain stages in the game? This IS clearly a problem between SMAC and Windows, but your response seemed to put the blame on Windows without admitting, "Yeah, we should have worked around that. It will be in patch 3.0" For the record, you have been very helpful to many people, which is more than I can say for any other company I've dealt with. So don't get me wrong, I think you're doing a GREAT job. You would move to STELLAR status if you never blamed Windows (we all know Windows sucks) and didn't threaten to ban people for bringing up a valid point that you don't agree with. Anyway, I'd be very interested in hearing your Windows v. SMAC perspective. If you clear this up for me, I'd appreciate it. [Jeff's final(?) reply] I'm afraid I don't have the time to spare. Some other time. -- [my final(?) two cents] I'll be the first to admit that I don't even begin to understand the challenges of programming a game for the Windows environment, but it is WORTHLESS to tell me "Oh, we didn't forsee that Windows configuration when we started, so that's not a SMAC problem. Fix your hardware." So, Mr. QA Director/Programmer, it seems like they left out something in your quality assurance training: Don't deflect blame. Don't threaten to ban your fans for being rightfully (even ignorantly, if that's your opinion) angry that their game doesn't work. And never forget to let people know you are honestly doing your best to fix the problem. So, Jeff, if this seems like I'm just being a pain, feel free to ban me. I can just sign up again anyway (and I do have IP address work-arounds). And next time, if you threaten to ban me, at least have the courage to enlighten me first. Loyal (believe it or not) Firaxis Fan, Yin |
ThRiLLkiLL |
![]() ![]() ![]() What's your point Yin? We all read your posts already. You ARE being a pain. Look. We all have computers, and most of us have problems at sime time or another. I do. I have a problem where once in a blue moon SMAC will hang my system when I try to run it. You know what? It does the same thing with Motocross Madness. A Microsoft Product. Microsoft can't (wont?) even publish games that work with their own operating system/DirectX drivers. How do you expect Firaxis to? Maybe my particular bug is the fault of my Matrox video drivers. Who knows? After playing games such as Daggerfall, Baldur's Gate, and Fallout (1&2), ThRiLL |
ic3worlds |
![]() ![]() ![]() ThRiLLkiLL.. alright tell it like it is dude..i've not had a crash yet and i put 18 hours on SMAC last night..and i'm useing the most up to date hardware out there except the PIII..so lets play ...and people please buy the good hardware not the bargain basement stuff.. |
Addict |
![]() ![]() I also have played many hours single player without problems, but with multiplayer over IP the game starts having random oddities after a couple hours of play. It has done this repeatedly, on a number of different systems. This is not hardware error, driver error, or OS error, it is simply something in the game. While I agree with Jeff and others that Windows drivers are often the source of problems, one should at least look at the problem before sending out a canned response. I really hate it when a company starts giving the canned 'It's the OS' to all bug reports, even those that are very clearly not. I've even sworn off a few companies for attitudes like that. I am not saying that Firaxis has gone that way yet, but Jeff's stance is getting kinda scary. On the other hand, I make a living programming myself, have for many years, I know how it goes. On a different note, I think the game is great, Firaxis has done a great job, keep it up. |
ViVicdi |
![]() ![]() ![]() Asking people to write software so that Windows doesn't crash is like asking the weatherman to control the weather. Windows is like a freak of nature, and we are lucky any programs at all will work for any length of time. Hell, Windows crashes just because it's running. If system software is the airport, and applications software are the airplanes, then Windows is like a giant sucking machine that continuously bombards the hapless victims caught in its traffic pattern with an unending stream of wind shear. You can't blame the planes for crashing; just patch 'em up and launch 'em down the runway and throw 'em back out into the storm. I hear they're porting Civilization to Linux ... |
Wolf |
![]() ![]() You think Linux is bug free? Hey, it's just software...It will crash as windows does, more or less...The good new is that there are companies like this one that care about what happens when you already gave your money for their products... |
BarCop |
![]() ![]() Nicly put Wolf. |
ViVicdi |
![]() ![]() ![]() What you said is true, but it doesn't invalidate what I said. None of us as software developers want to publish software that crashes, but hey, Windoze happens. We all try mightily to make our software work, but if it's running on Windows it's only a matter of time before it crashes. And after you reboot it may run another year before it crashes again. Windoze happens. Linux crashes less often than Windows. Linux also can't do neat things like autodetect your video card and automatically install accelerator software for it from the basic OS install CD. Linux is too difficult to be the typical user's desktop OS. I don't use Linux; I use Windows. But I'm sure as hell glad Windows has some competition, just like whether or not I have an American car thank goodness for the imports -- competition keeps people honest. You should welcome a Civ port to Linux, as I do, for just that reason. |
LordEmrys |
![]() ![]() ![]() Alright people, enough of the testosterone and the blame shifting. Here are the bare facts: 1) You cannot hold an operating system faulty when you knew ahead of time the troubles it was going to give you, some things you just have to say the programming is unstable. 2) You have to live with programming being unstable because i don't care if you are a Sid Meier's or a Linus Torvard(sp?), you cannot program any code that is bug-free. 3) As gamers and customers it is *our* responsibility to let them know of any bugs; however, we *did* pay for the product as is and they have no outstanding legal responsibility to fix any bugs inherent in the product, and do it out of respect for their customers and also because they know no one wants a product that doesn't work. 4) For all stances not covered by the above, FYI, I have a crappy machine right now...it is not even supposed to run a fourth of the games it does now. But with a little work on your part, you can optimize your computer to run much more efficiently, and if you are not taking the time to do that...then throw that piece of junk out the window because you are not worthy to handle it. Now that I have ranted about those professional points, my personal opinion is that yeah, maybe Jeff was a bit flaky with that response and how he responded to Yin, but remember his job deals with customer service and that is a tough job (megaprops to Jeff for dealing with this crap). Yin, you have to remember that is *is* their property, *their* forum, that we are *invited* to use. There is no rule saying they can't ban you for any reason no matter how petty. Suck it up, Yin, and deal with your few issues, and let Firaxis deal with the millions they have, and accept his help. You don't like it, go somewhere else. Thats all he wrote...laters on the flip side all you serious gamers out there... |
Firewall |
![]() ![]() I'm been playing SMAC without any problems on a BETA copy of Windows 2000, and other than some sound issues at first which I was able to correct with different drivers it has worked perfectly. I think if you make sure you are using the latest drivers for your computers components it will fix most of your problems. |
nightlord |
![]() ![]() ![]() I dont blame him! Why? If you have no valid input or nothing constructive to say then there is no point in using this forum to flame people. If you are pointing out a problem or asking for advice fair enough, If all you are trying to do is flame then dont be suprised when people do it back to you. Yes there are bugs in the coding but hey there are bugs in any code over 100 lines. What you cannotdo is never release any software as it is bugged or 90% of the people using this forum would have no operating system!!!!!! You cannot just point the finger in one direction. So think about what you say before you say it and dont just come here to flame. If you were banned for that attitude I for one would not miss you...... |
Jeremy |
![]() ![]() ![]() I like mittens |
Pax |
![]() ![]() ![]() Don't we all like mittens? I know I do. I believe Jeremy's really tapped the pulse of the people with his latest post ![]() Pax (wearing a pair of mittens) |
tfs99 |
![]() ![]() ![]() Doing my best Rocket J. Squirrel imitation: "Not AGAIN, but that post NEVER works" Yin: "This time for sure!!" |
kingnurgle |
![]() ![]() ![]() Mittens are very good.. they are soft and keep your hands warm when it's cold out side... Everyone should wear a pair of mittens.. It'd be harder for them to type... (Good No?) |
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