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Police States use oppression to keep their citizens in line, and allowtheir leaders great power over military decisions. But oppression ofthis type also decreases economic efficiency.
Leaders seeking Power build strong, well-paid military forces toenforce their will. However, economic and industrial infrastructure maysuffer from bloated "defense" budgets.
Do you think that it is an appropriate match to have -Economy social effects for the Power and Police State social models based upon their help texts?
First, the help for Police state is: (important word(s) are in bold font)QuotePolice States use oppression to keep their citizens in line, and allowtheir leaders great power over military decisions. But oppression ofthis type also decreases economic efficiency.
I agree with Yitzi on that 'economic efficiency' line. I've always read it the same way he says.What I miss a lot from SE options is that there is no feature in PROBE to make your probe actions cheaper - apart from a probe morale boost, positive PROBE is largely passive. Is there any way to change it?
And+2 and +3 MORALE, as weak as it is already (I consider MORALE to be the least important SE) give only +1 and +2 Morale respectively, plus additional 1 on defence... What gives? Even the highest MORALE is no match for +2 ECON or +1 INDUSTRY. I can't imagine how someone thought that the SE settings and choices are even remotely balanced.
Instant Elite units is in my opinion not something to sneeze at when a native stack of doom heads your way. It saves minerals to replace lost units, or seen the other way, gives extra mineral or energy costs to opponents to replace those units they lost against your elite ones.
Agree and the devs obviously did know that some SEs had stronger benefits than others. Mind you they might have overestimated some SE settings like Fundamentalist, Power.
PROBE was probably weaker than intended judging by Fundamentalisms +/-
Something like +/- to PROBE team construction costs might have worked too, or modified energy cost on actions.
Similarly Power was a bit weak, though I wouldn't underestimate ++SUPPORT that it gives. Supporting extra units for free will often counteract the --IND until Clean reactors (which are a bit broken IMO).
Police State at -2 ECON might work, though you would have to probably make Yang immune to its downside.
Really I always felt +ECON was a screwy SE with its odd breakpoints.
Something like +/- to total Energy production might have been more interesting than hard square modifiers. But as Yitzi said this isn't easy to modify...so it's best to make due.
With Yitzi's fixes I'd rank PLANET and PROBE as currently the least important SEs by quite a big margin. It'd be nice to somehow make them a bit more relevant but it's not too bad given how the SEs are mostly balanced around this.
Yea I'll have to play around with some Planet modifiers. The thing is I find FM already has big downsides on Transcend, with Drone fixes in. No Police sentinel really stings.
A lot more than the P-drones as you'd only really run FM in a peace scenario anyways. Like you said Morgan and +Commerce are really good with higher ECON. Didn't mean at all that ECON is worthless past +2. It's really powerful if you can get allies and have the Global Trade Pact going. But on the flip side, if you don't have this energy boost then it's really hard to control Drones.
I think if feasible it would be good to add a Energy cost to stealing tech. Maybe tie it to your current research cost in lab points?
You could add a cost to infiltrating too, maybe tied to faction population. Although doesn't infiltrate last forever? I always thought it should wear off after some time, maybe 20 turns. I could be wrong on this one.
Another possibility to boost PROBE would be to make it impossible to do all probe actions and not just subversion against a player running +3 PROBE SE. That would make it very tempting.
Complete immunity at +3 PROBE might be pretty overpowered I'll admit. But HSA does the same, maybe something like non-AE probes only.
That or tighten up the odds curve. Right now it doesn't feel like there's much difference between - and + PROBE SE.
The thing about adding steal costs is that it hurts the stealing factions more than techers.
If steal costs were very low at +2/+3 PROBE this might be okay too.
Also Dio I tested and at -3 (or lower) ECON, the -2 energy only affects the base square and cannot go below 0 (in the case of a new base with no recycle tanks or other bonus). So I'm not sure the whole negative energy theory is the reason for no -ECON SEs.
The same can be argued of SUP I guess but Clean has a cost.
If -ECON had Commerce penalty (in the way that +ECON gives Commerce bonus) then I think you could balance the -ECON SE better between early/late game.
Thematically I think the -2 ECON would fit better with Planned than -2 EFF. Thoughts anyone?