Author Topic: opensmac  (Read 6227 times)

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Offline Domin

opensmac
« on: December 14, 2013, 04:38:50 PM »
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  • I started open source clone of smac/smax. The source is ugly and available on github.


    Offline Mart

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #1 on: December 14, 2013, 07:21:47 PM »
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  • Hi Domin,
    Would you tell more about the project? What programming language and what kind of graphics library are you using? 
    You seem to have map drawing already done?

    Offline Domin

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #2 on: December 15, 2013, 03:21:45 PM »
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  • Hi Domin,
    Would you tell more about the project? What programming language and what kind of graphics library are you using? 
    You seem to have map drawing already done?
    Hi,
    Yes. Thanks. I didn't really know how to start. I'm trying something different; normally I'd keep rather quiet.
    It's in Python/Pygame.

    It's early stage. Drawing map lacks pretty features like shorelines but works. I'm doing base functionality now. The bases gather resources, grow, drones and talents are calculated. I'm working on production now. Its possible to change which squares are worked. There are no units yet.

    Offline ariete

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #3 on: December 15, 2013, 04:16:48 PM »
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  • really impressive, if you can to make right features like shorelines i think it can be a cool clone of the game
    down with the union !

    Offline Kataphraktoi

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #4 on: December 15, 2013, 04:44:01 PM »
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  • Very cool
    My favorite exploit is posting on Apolyton while at work and getting paid for it. -Sikander

    Offline Domin

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #5 on: December 15, 2013, 08:05:58 PM »
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  • really impressive, if you can to make right features like shorelines i think it can be a cool clone of the game

    The shorelines are pretty much low priority now - most of the game is not there yet. Working on game mechanics is the thing to do.

    Offline Kilkakon

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    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #6 on: December 16, 2013, 01:45:26 AM »
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  • Let us know how you go. :D While AC2 is not as active as it has been for a few months (a few people have been sick) there has often been many people wanting to see SMAX remade.

    Offline Mart

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #7 on: December 16, 2013, 09:34:56 AM »
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  • For such project, in order for it to be successful, some general program scheme/design would be necessary. It would say how the application is supposed to work, what kind of features it is going to have, etc. Then it should be fixed and not changed. And this is work for non-programmers in large part. This is what I have heard from people with experience.

    Python and Pygame seem to be very appropriate tools to do it.

    Offline Domin

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #8 on: December 16, 2013, 03:10:12 PM »
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  • For such project, in order for it to be successful, some general program scheme/design would be necessary. It would say how the application is supposed to work, what kind of features it is going to have, etc. Then it should be fixed and not changed. And this is work for non-programmers in large part. This is what I have heard from people with experience.

    Python and Pygame seem to be very appropriate tools to do it.

    Well, it's mostly known how it's supposed to work. But there are many unknowns and there are unknown unknowns. Working alone I don't need big upfront design to coordinate effort and while I dream of it, I don't expect second developer any time soon :/  I've chosen to write code and then refactor and rewrite as needed. Python is good for that. Of course I do some big picture thinking, but not as much to produce any documents. I suppose getting something working is a best thing to do to attract some help.

    The big milestone I can think of is multiplayer playability. The ai is obviously a big thing and I leave it for unspecified future for now.


    Offline ete

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #9 on: December 16, 2013, 07:14:28 PM »
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  • Very interesting! If you're able to get a clone working (especially with working multiplayer, and maybe too optimistically with the simultaneous turn dynamics the original has) that would be pretty amazing. Could you link to the github repository, maybe from the OP?

    One thought I'd like to put out there for when you get to AI: Perhaps build the AI as a module which is somewhat exposed to the user, effectively a relatively easily editable script. This would allow users to quickly test tweaks to solve AI stupidity that they encounter, and make AI competitions fun. Have actions that could be taken by AI (including various cheating options) and information that could be gathered by the AI as built in functions, and a basic example AI which does the very basics mostly as an example (probably cheating even more than the official one to stand), then encourage people to tweak and improve, and share their advances.

    I feel like having the AI's reasoning be open and adaptable (in a "there is a menu option called Edit AI script" way, not a "Get git set up, download the source code, make changes, reload program" way) would attract people who would be both great for the project and likely to have loved SMAC/X in the past. The game seems like a fun challenge for AI designers, because there's fairly simply structured information and input/output, but enormous complexity and possible advanced strategy in various directions many of which could be improved incrementally by a semi-technical user with good game knowledge if the scripting had good examples (terraforming, unit design, army vs development, research paths, diplomacy, etc). I'd especially love to see different AI's battling each other, and the ability to script your own governors for bases so they make sane choices reducing micromanagement lategame.

    @Mart: I think you're thinking of new game design? Cloning a game is quite different, you pretty much just need programmer power for it.

    Offline Mart

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #10 on: December 16, 2013, 07:43:18 PM »
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  • That's true, it pertains mostly to creation of a new game, but also when cloning sometning like SMAC, it is large application and having something like a described block scheme of it would help.

    Offline ete

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #11 on: December 17, 2013, 03:48:40 AM »
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  • That would help, and perhaps be advisable to think about a fair amount early on to reduce later need for restructuring, but again that's something a programmer (or at least someone with a good understanding of programming) is going to be needed for, unlike a normal game's design phase where you want designers primarily.

    Edit: hm, found the github, it looks like you're not including SMAX elements? Is that a later plan (build basic game, add extras), or are you not keen on SMAX? I'd encourage you to aim for the full game, there's a fair amount of added depth to gameplay from the assorted extra features (more native diversity, techs, factions, facilities, SPs, etc), which has lead to most of the users here treating SMAX as standard.
    « Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 04:25:47 AM by ete »

    Offline Kataphraktoi

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #12 on: December 17, 2013, 02:44:51 PM »
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  • Im one of the guys that see crossfire as an empty addon adding little substantive content. The factions in particularly are poorly design and some flavor elements like opening video have been compromised. Tech\SP blurbs dont seem to be make as much sense
    My favorite exploit is posting on Apolyton while at work and getting paid for it. -Sikander

    Offline Geo

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #13 on: December 17, 2013, 04:07:13 PM »
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  • Tech\SP blurbs dont seem to be make as much sense

    Some of the facility blurbs though... :D
    I especially like Svensgaards' ones.

    Offline ete

    Re: opensmac
    « Reply #14 on: December 17, 2013, 05:55:40 PM »
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  • Somewhat sidetracky, but briefly the way I see SMAC/X:
    SMAX does not add a huge amount, but it does add diversity in a few important places.

    It adds seven factions, meaning you can have big games without running into the same factions every time, and even if they've taken a lot of flack for being poorly designed (something which is not /entirely/ unjustified in some respects, but also exaggerated and problems caused by flawed execution of flavor rather than actually bad philosophical basis), they are fairly well balanced and allow you to mix up the game a whole lot more which adds significant replay value.

    Various aspects of sea colonisation were improved: Bonus resource facilities, marine detachment, ability for factions to start at sea. Not a huge detail, but opens up a new set of possibilities.

    Native life made more annoying, which to me is good. Planet sending spore launchers to tear up your terraforming adds to the feel of the Planet Rising thing, and imo fungal towers make exploration much more interesting a trade off in many cases, for longer than it otherwise is, while adding diversity to the landscape.

    Basically, X was not a revolution, they were pretty conservative, they screwed up in a few places (imo: intro as you point out is flat out worse, characterization of certain leaders is questionable (partly due to having much fewer available blurbs, partly just mistakes), missing the chance for tech tree balancing), but on the whole SMAX is almost entirely an upgrade of SMAC, even if it is not as much of an upgrade or as well executed upgrade as we'd want ideally, and the main changes are easy to disable by simply picking original factions. I'd personally be less happy to revert to an unupgraded game, and guess a fair number of potential players would end up weighing advantages of X's additions against whatever bonuses opensmac comes up with due to having source code access to do cool things.

     

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